Need help understanding Variable Advantage

[Badger]

One of those things I havent used before. But, it looks like it could be of use with the EB type, but I am not sure how it would work (Note: 5th ed.) And Hero Designer isnt giving much help on this one

 

OK, for the example I will use for my question. i want a 10d6 EB with Variable Adv. and decided to take at +1/2 Variable Advantage at +1 Value. What will this give me? Say some of the advantages I want to use for such a blast is Armor Piercing, AOE, or Explosion (those are off top of my head).

 

1) Does this mean I can use more than one of those for a single blast?

2) Does it mean that I can use as many as I want up to (+1/2) or the one I use can only equal (+1/2)?

 

Note: Actually the book had a similar scenario as the example, I just noticed. But, I still cant get quite a handle on it.

[The Main Man]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

It means that you may use any combination of Power Advantages up to the designated value at any given time.

 

One phase you may make it have Reduced END 0 END (+1/2), the next phase you may choose AOE: 1 Hex (+1/2), or another you may decide on Personal Immunity (+1/4), Trigger, (+1/4), and STUN Only (+0). As long as it all adds up and the GM approves, you're good to go.

[Outsider]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

Another question then (and this may be answered in the book, but I dont have mine with me) :

 

Is Variable Advantage (+1) supposed to exactly simulate the same power with +1/2 in advantages, with the exception of allowing the user to vary just what that +1/2 is?

 

The main places where I can see this not happening is in the END cost and in the maximum range, both of which are based on active points. A 50 Base Point power with a +1/2 advantage is 75 Active Points, whereas the same 50 Base Point power with a +1 Variable Advantage is a 100 Active Point power.

 

Also... if one takes Reduced Endurance (1/2 END cost) as part of the variable advantage, do the Active Points added due to the advantage count towards total AP for determining END cost, unlike if one takes Reduced Endurance without going through the Variable Advantage?

[randian]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

A 50 base power with +1 variable advantage has 100 active points for all purposes, including END cost, range, Suppress, and Drain. It costs 10 END to use and has 100x10m range. If you take 1/2 End (+1/4) as one of your advantages it costs 5 END to use. If you take Autofire 3 as your other +1/4 it would take 5x3=15 END to use.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

One phase you may make it have Reduced END 0 END (+1/2)' date=' the next phase you may choose AOE: 1 Hex (+1/2), or another you may decide on Personal Immunity (+1/4), Trigger, (+1/4), and STUN Only (+0). As long as it all adds up and the GM approves, you're good to go.[/quote']

 

+0 Advantages are a grey area. For example, we had a discussion a while back on whether you can pay 1 point (minimum cost of any power) to have a Naked Advantage of Stun Only on any power of up to 1 billion AP, thus being able to choose when and whether any given attack would have the potential to be lethal. Seems a very inexpensive, potentially very powerful ability. "Since they have hostages, I will shoot them with the 6d6 RKA AoE MegaCannon, but I'll use my naked advantage so it's Stun Only."

 

A 50 base power with +1 variable advantage has 100 active points for all purposes' date=' including END cost, range, Suppress, and Drain. It costs 10 END to use and has 100x10m range. If you take 1/2 End (+1/4) as one of your advantages it costs 5 END to use. If you take Autofire 3 as your other +1/4 it would take 5x3=15 END to use.[/quote']

 

Except the cost of reduced END increases for Autofire attacks, doesn't it? But the base END cost is always 10.

[dmjalund]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

I thought a +0 Veriable advantage level would cost +1/4

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

Costing +0 at +1/4 for this purpose would seem fair, especially as it will be used only in those situations where it is advantageous.

[randian]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

Except the cost of reduced END increases for Autofire attacks' date=' doesn't it? But the base END cost is always 10.[/quote']

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

[Naanomi]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

How about limitations? A '-0 Variable Limitation' (for -0 itself, of course) to... tack a Linked poison onto whatever you wanted? Or some of those other 'its a disadvantage, but it can help' type situations

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

How about limitations? A '-0 Variable Limitation' (for -0 itself' date=' of course) to... tack a Linked poison onto whatever you wanted? Or some of those other 'its a disadvantage, but it can help' type situations[/quote']

 

I'm out of END...I'll tack on 16 charges!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Need help understanding Variable Advantage

 

This old post might help:

 

I remember having a discussion on this same subject back in the 80's and the ONLY real argument put forth on behalf of the 'Real-Point' side was the fact that the 1st edition of Champions wrote it this way.

 

However, as others have already pointed out, the next reprint fixed this omission mistake promptly.

 

The way I try to explain the spirit of the rules behind Multipowers is to include VPP's and the Variable Advantage as 3 similar tools that can be used to describe one Meta-Power of Special Effect X.

 

Example:

1. 87 Special Effect X Attack: Energy Blast 10d6, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages: +3/4)
   
   • [87 Total Points]
     
   • This is the simplest to judge the effectiveness of and functions like a 3-4 ultra slot multipower with the limitation that it can't be used without SOME type of advantage.
     
   • Optionally, you can remove the "Limited" verbage and increase the cost to 100 Total Points
     

 

[*]75 Special Effect X: Multipower, 75-point reserve

• 7u Energy Blast 10d6, Random Advantage #1 (+1/2)
  
• 7u Energy Blast 10d6, Random Advantage #2 (+1/2)
  
• 7u Energy Blast 15d6
  
• [96+ Total Points, or more depending on the number of different slots purchased]
  
• Better than Variable Advantage option since it allows for non-advantaged attack.
  

 

[*]130 Special Effect X: Variable Power Pool, 75 base + 74 control cost, Cosmic(+2) (186 Active Points); all slots Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Special Effect X: -1)

• [130 Total Points]
  
• This functions as an Unlimited # of slots Multipower.
  
• It is more powerfull And Cost Effective than option 2 as soon as you have more than 7 slots.
  

 

 

• Special Effect X can be replaced with anything (fire, cold, electricity, etc..).
  
• Random Advantage can be replaced with any (+1/2) Advantage or combination of two different (+1/4) Advantages.
  

All 3 methods are perfectly valid ways to construct an attack that has an effective 75 active point cost and has several different ways it can be used. Each version is a balance of Cost Effectiveness VS. Usefullness.

 

HM