Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

well, not for the guards, but ok for the big bad

imho, i prefer a plain +4 CSL with weapon than a +4 PSL only vs called shot. big bads' does'nt pay for the CSL

 

If the PC's have 8 PSL's vs Hit Locations, why shouldn't the Big Bad have 8 PSL's vs Hit Locations and another 4 CSL's? He's supposed to be more powerful than any one of the PC's. Or give him +8 PSL's against Multiple Attack Penalties and let him take a head shot on each PC in one phase, or hit one multiple times.

 

does'nt work.

really, talking to them does'nt work

 

i tried it some times ago for an high end reserve + force field, and still no resolution (now every mage got end reserve + force field and everyone go with net, whip, and entangle weapon or grab martial maneuver to use vs mages)

i tried it with deadly blow (everyone got deadly blow in the party) and i was able to remove it with the promise "no npc wil get deadly blow" (plus, menacing "if you don't remove it, every npc will get deadly blow" had same effect )

 

Then go straight to giving equal opponents the same number of PSL's the typical PC has, and give the Big Bad more levels than the PC's to take more advantage over called shots.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

[sORRY TO BE NITPICKY]

the appostrophe in doesn't occurs between the n and the t

[/sORRY TO BE NITPICKY]

ouch >_<

thanks

[culhwch]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

What my group does when this comes up is to allow the GM to do a spot ruling to keep the game going. Then Either one of the players will look up the correct ruling in the book' date=' or we will wait till the end of the game to look up the correct rule. The only time that we will stop the game for a ruling is if the ruling will change whether a PC will die or not. Also sometimes who ever is the GM will at the beginning of the game announce that any changes to the way we are playing the game. ie "In our last game I ruled that Killing attack stun worked in x way. I have since looked up the rules and found out that I was doing it wrong. From now on we will be doing it the way it is shown in the book. That way is this...."[/quote']

 

In the (D&D) game I'm currently in, the rules change each session because no one has a complete understanding of all the rules, and we're all forgetfull anyway. No one in the group complains, but then we don't have any rules lawyers in the group.

[marc]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

To me a dragon walks around with its head out front, A dragon has the same physiology as a human? Hit locations math from a single chart seems broken to me. Like saying a shark’s weak spot is its mouth.

 

So, if you hit a whale in the head, it does more damage than if you hit its body?

 

Pachycephalosaurus' head is as vital a hit location as a human head?

 

I am just an old GM from 4th ed .. but in the case of a dragon I might consider dropping hit locations all together.

 

The high stunX spot on a dragon might be on the underside, or some other hidden location, perhaps needing a Dragon knowledge skill roll to determine or requiring some dungeoneering type skill roll to see if you can figure out what spot is softest to hit.

 

 

Marc

[Dr Divago]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

Dragons got a different hit location table

as far as i remember (i got no handbook at the moment) hit location 18 is -12 OCV while neck hit is not more dangerous than torso for human

 

btw, i subtly asked my player if they whann roll for hit location instead than use "generic hit at generic PD". they all agreed 'cause "so we don't need to calculate generic pd and we can use only sectional armor"...

the fools...

[Ternaugh]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

It sounds like you have some issues with how the group wants to play vs how you want to GM. I would suggest writing up a list of guidelines for your campaign. There were two sections to the ones that I used for my games in the past.

 

First, I had a generic "Gaming courtesy guidelines" sheet. On it, I had basics, like contacting the GM if you can't make a game, and others, including one that basically said, "Don't argue with the GM during play." I didn't allow book lawyering until after the session, and players who insisted on arguing the point got skipped in the combat.

 

Second, I had a guidelines sheet for the specific game that I was running. For my FH game, it included allowed races, allowed packages, magic system notes, and so forth. It also had a list of unused or restricted rules, powers, and maneuvers. Just because something is in one of the Hero books doesn't make it legal in your game. You, as GM, have the final word on anything, and can refuse anything that either doesn't fit the game concept or is unbalancing.

 

JoeG

[Ternaugh]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

[sORRY TO BE NITPICKY]

the appostrophe in doesn't occurs between the n and the t

[/sORRY TO BE NITPICKY]

 

You've misspelled apostrophe.

 

JoeG

[dmjalund]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

You've misspelled apostrophe.

 

JoeG

yes, an error far less glaring than the one I was addressing

[Sepia]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

If your players are unwilling to lower their PSL or other items that are causing an unbalancing in your game then as I see it you only have two options...increase everyone else in the world to compensate thereby artificially lowering their abilities or start a new game. I personally choose a new game; you could simply stop and declare the new campaign or "accidentally" kill off too many PC's (like all of them if need be) and be sad about it when they need to make new characters. This will give you a clean slate to put your house rules into place and they can't say anything about it. I am a heavy handed GM when it comes to character creation and experience expenditures and my players are all aware of it. Of course, they are more into the story and role-playing side of the game and not the power-gaming side of the game (as your player's seem to be). Hope this helps!

[Tasha]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

If your players are unwilling to lower their PSL or other items that are causing an unbalancing in your game then as I see it you only have two options...increase everyone else in the world to compensate thereby artificially lowering their abilities or start a new game. I personally choose a new game; you could simply stop and declare the new campaign or "accidentally" kill off too many PC's (like all of them if need be) and be sad about it when they need to make new characters. This will give you a clean slate to put your house rules into place and they can't say anything about it. I am a heavy handed GM when it comes to character creation and experience expenditures and my players are all aware of it. Of course' date=' they are more into the story and role-playing side of the game and not the power-gaming side of the game (as your player's seem to be). Hope this helps![/quote']

 

The problem with "accidentally" killing off PC's or ending a campaign is that sometimes stuff like that will cause the whole game to crash. You also lose all of the backstory that your players and PCs have been building up. A GM is far better served by talking to the players directly. As a GM if you aren't having fun then the game will be ending soon due to GM burn out. If you are nice enough you can sell a nerf of the PC's pretty well or one could give them the choice of Nerfing(to make less powerful) CSLs on the PC's or having the opposition Buffed (made more powerful) to create balance.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

Second' date=' I had a guidelines sheet for the specific game that I was running. For my FH game, it included allowed races, allowed packages, magic system notes, and so forth. It also had a list of unused or restricted rules, powers, and maneuvers. Just because something is in one of the Hero books doesn't make it legal in your game. You, as GM, have the final word on anything, and can refuse anything that either doesn't fit the game concept or is unbalancing.[/quote']i did something similar... well... i'm doing it 'cause it cost me some times (plus players never read the book... or read only something and all after game started)

main problem is when i permit something, then i discover it's unbalancing and stepping backward is never good... and sometime not accepted...

[Dr Divago]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

The problem with "accidentally" killing off PC's or ending a campaign is that sometimes stuff like that will cause the whole game to crash.

yeah

this is the problem

 

long time ago, a DnD campaign simply crashed when half the party got killed (really, by accident) while they could not be resurrected; i gave them option to be resurrected BUT with the loss of every magical item (and you know, in dnd magical item is what make you chars what they really are...)

they refused, and the game stopped never recovering

 

severly year before that, in an ADnD campaign (yes it was really long time ago) i said to the player "i got no fun, we change something or campaign die" and as a result, campaign died u.u

 

those are some of the reasons i don't play dnd anymore (plus, also the reason why i keep magical items and spells level veeeeeery low...)

 

As a GM if you aren't having fun then the game will be ending soon due to GM burn out. If you are nice enough you can sell a nerf of the PC's pretty well or one could give them the choice of Nerfing(to make less powerful) CSLs on the PC's or having the opposition Buffed (made more powerful) to create balance.

mmmhhh no...

it's uncorrect to say i don't get fun

i _do_ get fun

BUT

i got some serious problem in game "maintenance" while power level goes up.

on one side, i whant the player have fun, and also encourage clever gaming, encourage when they try to learn the ruling (as in the "i build myself a spell, and if you like it, can i use it?") and also sometime i'd like to _reward_ them with some special gift. including magical items or the possibility to acquire special powers (for instance, i permitted the lycanthrope to buy regeneration as a power, similar to werewolve's one, just because it something tied to his nature...)

 

on the other side, i hit the head against some unbalancing i could be giving them.

for instance, i gave them a magical ring with an enhanced sense on mental group. sense is identical to normal sight (detect objects, range, sense, targeting, discriminatory...) but on mental group. its just a 7 point item (that requires concentration so it's not really powerful)

now i discovering that almost all invisibility powers are NOT invisibile to mental group (neither qliphotic hunter's one!) so the objects is REALLY USEFUL, and also unbalancing (they can see through most illusions, invisibilities, shape shift, and like)

 

but i don't whant to step back and remove the item (stealing them, destroying them etc.), or change it. ok i can give the "mental group" to every illusion, invisibility, shape change they face in the game, but that's not a real solution

(main solution is they keep saying "this ring is useless, i need to sell it as soon as possible" solution i'll encourage )

this is just an example

 

stunning attack vs dragons are same things. but that's not really unfair: ok they could uber stun enemies but so could also enemies on them, and really it's in the core rule of the game. i can't nerf them everytime i get frustrated: they are _supposed_ to be heroes and survive big things and survive few dragons...

just... it's my limit, i'm not really able to manage high power level :\

 

but think we are off topic now

 

ps: i talked a little with my players, and they all agreed using hit location roll. they said "it's not complicated, it give enemies opportunities to stun us/kill us with head shot" etc.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

mmmhhh

maybe i'll use the dcv "only to avoid head shots"... x_x

(btw is a -2 limitation? or just -1?)

 

I'm not sure, It's an NPC power for NPCs. PCs just buy "No hit locations" and justify it somehow. If I were guessing i'd say -1, because the people who have it would otherwise get headshotted down.

[Patriot]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

Dragons have been around for a long time , heroes ( and villains) have been hunting them for nearly as long. So by the laws of natural selection, evolution, etc. and a elderwyrm dracomage 5d6 of damage negation only vs called shots might be in order.

[Tasha]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

I'm not sure' date=' It's an NPC power for NPCs. PCs just buy "No hit locations" and justify it somehow. If I were guessing i'd say -1, because the people who have it would otherwise get headshotted down.[/quote']

 

It's part of the Automation Powers suite. It's for things like Zombies, Skeletons and oozes that don't matter where you hit them, they take the same amount of stun and body.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Stunning enemies (and Dragons too!!)

 

It's part of the Automation Powers suite. It's for things like Zombies' date=' Skeletons and oozes that don't matter where you hit them, they take the same amount of stun and body.[/quote']

 

No hit locations is an Automaton power, +8 DCV vs. Called shots is not, and I was suggested it be a -1 limitation.