Sepia Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction one suggestion... see if you can obtain or borrow a copy of Fire' date=' Fusion, And Steel... the first edition for Traveller the New Era. it has a lot of useful stuff in it on vehicle and starship design, and it doesnt just work for traveller, DTRPG has it iirc[/quote'] Fire, Fusion, And Steel...it is a definite good read for any game system. I used to play Traveller a lot, but got tired of the lethality of it. I like more game-style heroic games where the PC's live more. Sepia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I ran the numbers with FF&S assuming the Alien Wars chemical rockets had the same performance characteristics as Traveller HEPLAR drives. The engines came out smaller for the smaller ships (smaller than the numbers I was using), and bigger for the Centauri. The fuel requirement jumped dramatically for all of them. I could fudge it for the Sting, and it filled up a good bit of the space in the Centauri, but it was more than the Antarctic could hold. Then the thought occurred to me that the bigger ships don't necessarily need enough fuel to run engines 24/7 for a month...the fighter might reasonably use 6 hours of fuel in a 6 hour mission, but the bigger ships are going to use a little delta-V and then coast for days. I'll have to think about how I'm going to work that...I could say the Antarctic doesn't need fuel for 24/7 thrust to go a month between refuelings, but then I have to figure out why the Centauri is carrying enough fuel for 24/7 thrust, even if it doesn't use it, and still needs to be refueled that often. I can see how Steve has been so adamant about not getting this nuts-and-bolts about starships. It's not easy making any kind of system fit in with pre-existing vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction ran some numbers crossing from FF&S to Hero Designer, heres what I come up with for Traveller hulls from 1 to 100 tons based on listed unmodified length straight to Hero size rating Traveller Hull Size Conversions Trav Trav Hero Displacement Tonnage Volume Length Size 1 14 3.2 2 2 28 4 3 3 42 4.6 3 4 56 5.2 4 5 70 5.6 4 6 84 5.8 4 7 98 6.2 4 8 112 6.6 5 9 126 6.8 5 10 140 7 5 15 210 7.5 5 20 280 8 6 25 350 8.6 6 30 420 9.2 6 35 490 9.8 6 40 560 10.4 7 45 630 10.8 7 50 700 11.2 7 55 770 11.4 7 60 840 11.6 7 65 910 12.1 7 70 980 12.5 7 75 1050 12.9 8 80 1120 13.2 8 85 1190 13.4 8 90 1260 13.6 8 95 1330 13.8 8 100 1400 14 8 Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction You really need to use the volume of the hull for converting from Traveller to Hero -- the length still doesn't work. The basic hulls in Traveller are assumed to be spherical, which gives them the smallest possible length (diameter), but Hero uses a "box" configuration with a length twice its width and height, which has slightly under half the volume of sphere with the same length. In 5e, there's no 'volume' listed for a given vehicle SIZE, but the recommended method in The Ultimate Vehicle (p8) is to assume a height equal to width. These are all in inches equal to two meters, so to get the basic volume in cubic meters from the length in inches use: V= 2 * (Length)^3. In 6e, the basic volume for each vehicle SIZE is given, no formula needed, and the volume for each SIZE is the same as in 5e. If you want to convert the box hulls given for Hero to Traveller sphere hulls, divide the length by 1.25 to get the diameter of a sphere of the same volume. (After working this out myself, I found it's identical to the length mod for box hulls in FF&S!) Here's a truncated version of the conversion chart with hull length for box/sphere hulls, volume in hero, and dTons for vehicle sizes 10-15. (covers most Traveller ships) The numbers are rounded off, in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Been playing around with FF&S a little. I like it. It's nearly as versatile as GURPS Vehicles, but much less complicated. The only thing I don't like, and GURPS Vehicles suffers from this too, is that it assumes you start building with a volume in mind. Nine times out of ten, I start out with a mission in mind, and want the minimum volume required to carry the equipment needed for that mission. Also, Classic Traveller lists an ATV as TL6, and lists all kinds of performance stats (range, speed, mass, passengers, etc). It is impossible to build in FF&S at TL 6. At least with those stats. Which, I guess, goes to show how hard it is to make a system that fits into the existing rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I have done a displacement crapload of real vehicle conversions, but for most of those I have the dimensions to figure volume with, and go from there, its a lot simpler Trivia Note: the Tracked ATV from classic traveller which is open-topped, is simply a Bren Gun Carrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Conversions wouldn't be difficult. If you want to keep things tight, you can't use a direct conversion. A TL 5 "ATV" might be equivalent to a Bren Gun Carrier, but a TL 10 ATV will be pretty different. With a bunch of miniaturization for many systems, the vehicle will end up smaller and/or with roomier crew accommodations. And militaries are notorious for not being too concerned about crew accommodations. At any rate, a Bren Gun Carrier doesn't meet the specs put out in Classic Traveller. Primarily because it can't operate in vacuum. Anyway, I think I have some ideas for filling up a Centauri without overloading the Antarctic. I'll see if I can run some numbers over the next few days and make something work. If I come up with something, the Jupiter is the only canon Alien Wars ship left to do, and it's mostly the same as the Centauri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I phrased it badly.. this was a low tech tracked ATV designed for worlds with an atmosphere, I just dont remember which book it was in, might have been one of the T4 books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I phrased it badly.. this was a low tech tracked ATV designed for worlds with an atmosphere' date=' I just dont remember which book it was in, might have been one of the T4 books[/quote'] Heh...yeah, that's the problem with a game that's been around so long and gone through so many iterations. Too much material to keep track of. I'm not a Traveller completist so it's easier for me...I have the Little Black Books and a smattering of other stuff. My Hero stuff gives me problems sometimes though...I started this thread to get the Size of an escape pod, because it wasn't in Alien Wars or Star Hero (and Star Hero directs you to Terran Empire for it), but later on I found it in The Ultimate Vehicle. Every now and then someone comes on and asks about something that I know I've seen, but can't remember for the life of me where it was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction It was really hard being a Traveller completiest, then Far Future Enterprises started selling the compilation CDs, those are well worth the price, 30.00 for a complete little black book set, I got mine free, Marc Miller was missing a couple of JTAS issues that I had, so he gave me the CD after I loaned him the 2 JTAS issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction It was really hard being a Traveller completiest' date=' then Far Future Enterprises started selling the compilation CDs, those are well worth the price, 30.00 for a complete little black book set, I got mine free, Marc Miller was missing a couple of JTAS issues that I had, so he gave me the CD after I loaned him the 2 JTAS issues[/quote'] Yeah -- I was well on my way to completing my collection when the FFE compilations came out. The price of old Traveller materials on eBay fell so fast you could hear the doppler shift as they went by on their way down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I still have all my old little black books, but the CD I keep for cons and stuff, its a lot handier than all the books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction however... the old Digest Group Megatraveller books wont ever come out on CD, long and nasty dispute on that one... which is really too bad.. .the DGP were probably the best books for Megatraveller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction however... the old Digest Group Megatraveller books wont ever come out on CD' date=' long and nasty dispute on that one... which is really too bad.. .the DGP were probably the best books for Megatraveller[/quote'] I read that some guy bought the whole DGP IP with the thought of publishing everything. I guess the mess of owning product that was part of a licenced IP has kept it from being re released. Good thing I own the "important" books by them. That would be Starship Operations Manual for the Free trader, and the World Design book. The world design book was cutting edge in it's day, but is now showing it's age when compared to Astronomical discoveries since it's publication. DGP did a great job of creating supplements, they pushed the art of making game supplements to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Roger Sanger who owned Digest Group has had several offers for the traveller stuff... biggest problem was he wanted too high a price, and or he wanted whoever bought them to also publish his own game, that really was not even remotely worth it, I read a playtest of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Starship Operators Manual, World Builders Handbook, 101 Vehicles and 101 Robots were also good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Roger Sanger who owned Digest Group has had several offers for the traveller stuff... biggest problem was he wanted too high a price' date=' and or he wanted whoever bought them to also publish his own game, that really was not even remotely worth it, I read a playtest of it[/quote'] Yeah I read the article in MegaTraveller Journal about his game. It wasn't appealing at all. Like many Traveller fans, I would love to see legal PDF's of those books and magazines that I could purchase on DriveThru RPG or even as part of one of FFE's MegaTraveller CD's. I imagine seeing that happen would be highly unlikely. I wish I had more money and interest in Traveller when Digest Games was publishing. Unfortunately, I was only buying MegaTraveller stuff that really grabbed my attention, and most of that had the GW logo on it. I have a few issues of Traveller Digest and perhaps even an issue of MTJ. Kind of part and parcel of being in my 20 and somewhat poor. Also it was a function of not playing Traveller. So any Traveller supplements were bought for the reading enjoyment alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction I actually signed up to playtest his game, after reading the initial information on it, I ended up not participating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction ...and most of that had the GW logo on it...Wasn't it GDW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction yes, although Games Workshop actually did produce 1 book for Classic Traveller, it was called IISS Ship Files... never seen a copy for sale, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Illustrated Traveller Bibliography http://www.travellerbibliography.org/ct.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Wasn't it GDW? Yep I stand corrected as I was using the US version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction yes' date=' although Games Workshop actually did produce 1 book for Classic Traveller, it was called IISS Ship Files... never seen a copy for sale,[/quote'] Also GW published the UK editions of the Original Little Black Books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Re: Alien Wars spaceship construction Haven't done much with Alien Wars spaceships for a while, but Buzz Aldrin's Mars Cycler came up in conversation after work the other day, and I decided to look it up again. Popular Mechanics used to have a pretty cool schematic showing how it was supposed to work, but that illustration isn't with their article anymore apparently. But I did find these links, which I thought were pretty decent...and since cycler stations are mentioned in Alien Wars as a means of interplanetary travel, I thought I'd post them here. http://www.damninteresting.com/the-martian-express http://www.globalarchitectsguide.com/library/Mars-cycler.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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