Uh, other - don't know what to call it

[Rebar]

I have a character who has a Drain (from BOD, STUN, END) followed by an Aid (to BOD, STUN, END) - lim: only as much as was drained.

 

Question 1: How much is the Aid limit "Aided points exactly equal Drained points" worth? +0?

 

 

Question 2: I envision a defense that uses up the "virtual points" if the character gets hit. So, say he's just drained 14 pts, (which are floating in limbo, waiting for him to use them for the Aid). Before he can use the Aid, he gets hit with a blaster shot. The points go into a defense that protects him.

 

What defense? What defensive power will activate only when and if it's needed, does not use End otherwise, but does use those limbo points when the hit occurs?

 

(The last part is easy to build, just some limit that says "locks out Aid until Drain is used again"); what I'm not sure about is which defense I should use that pops up without his volition just as its needed. Armour?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

If you're using 6E - see Drain p197 "Transfer" power.

 

The rules have the Aid on a Trigger, which is immediately activated removing the "limbo" aspect.

 

To keep that aspect, and deal with the "limbo" part, you're going to be looking at a possibly rather expensive Resistance Defense with a PD/ED/Mental/Power all set to the maximum you can Drain and a Limitation that says "Value of Defenses is equal to amount currently Drained but not Aided" - I'd set it at -1 or so possibly.

 

So if you've got a 2D6 Drain you'll need a 12PD/12ED/12Mental/12Power Resistance Defense Power (way not cheap for all 4 - and that doesn't even cover Flash) and the above Limitation.

 

That's my suggestion as a quick think on the topic.

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

Here's my 2 variations:

 

var 1: character is only conduit

 

Drain 2 1/2 D6 (1/3 each from End, Stun, Bod) - note: keep track of "Life Force point pool"

- Limited Range 6" (+1/4)

- Invisible to sight (+1/4)

- LF Pts return per minute (+1/4)

Aid 2 1/2 D6 (1/3 each to End, Stun, Bod)

- Limited Range 6" (+1/4)

- LF Pts fade per minute (+1/4)

- Can only follow Drain (-1/2)

- Exactly as many LF points as were Drained (+0)

15 PD/15 ED

- only up to current LF points (-1/2)

- Side effect: burns LF points from pool (-1/2)

- Character has no choice (-1/2)

 

var 2: character is storage - can use Life Force points as his own

 

Transfer 2 1/2D6 (1/3 each from/to End, Stun, Bod) - note: keep track of "Life Force point pool"

- Limited range 6" (+1/4)

- Invisible to sight (+1/4)

Healing 2 1/2 D6 (1/3 each to End, Stun, Bod)

- Limited range 6" (+1/4)

- Exactly as many LF points as were Drained (+0)

- Side effect: burns LF points from pool (-1/2)

15 PD/15 ED

- only up to current LF points (-1/2)

- Side effect: burns LF points from pool (-1/2)

- Character has no choice (-1/2)

 

 

Still lots of tweaking to do... EC? MP? Reduced End? etc.

[dmjalund]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

orr you could have Aid . Trasfer to Ablative Defense on a Trigger - defined to last only until the next Aid (to END Stun Body) which may be defined as must immediately follow the first Aid (Transfer)

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

What g-a said for the Transfer stuff. Caveat: Transfer used to be a Power in 6E and prior, and now it's an Aid+Drain build. The idea is that Transfer would suck points out of someone and give them to you. The Aid+Drain combo does that, but it sounds like you want to be able to use the Drain and Aid separately. It's the same basic idea, but you'll want to tweak the specifics of the Modifiers.

 

For the Aid/Defenses, in the Advanced Player's Guide there's a Modifier for Defense Powers to the effect that it only costs END when the character is hit. You could use that, altered slightly so that it comes out of the Aided points (maybe via an END Reserve?).

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I wonder if it would be easier/cheaper to use only one power - Transfer - and have it go both directions.

 

Transfer from Bad Guy to me

Transfer from me to Good Guy

 

(I'd need usable as attack on that second one).

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

BTW, this is 5E only.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

Are you intending them to be used as two separate actions? In other words, you Drain someone, then you can Aid so many points or otherwise your defenses work? If so, then I'd go with Drain and Aid as separate builds. Set up an END Reserve with something like "Maximum permitted END is the same as the amount of Drained points." Something on the Aid like "Costs 1 END per Aided Point" and have it run out of the END Reserve. And finally, apply the modifier to the defenses as I mentioned above.

 

Btw, the Advanced Players Guide is a worthy purchase even if you're in 5E.

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I was thinking abot using an END battery to basically serve as the "bookkeeper" of "life force" points.

 

Strangely, it's far too effective. Transferring into and END abttery gets me 10x as many points as I drained (1CP = 10 End). I could then buy my powers with the Increased Endruance - 10x for a -4 limitation!

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

Transferring into and END abttery gets me 10x as many points as I drained (1CP = 10 End).

 

It doesn't work that way. END is still treated as a Characteristic, so it's only 2 END per CP of Drain (in 5e).

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

It doesn't work that way. END is still treated as a Characteristic' date=' so it's only 2 END per CP of Drain (in 5e).[/quote']

 

I was wondering about that. Where does it say that?

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I wonder if it would be easier/cheaper to use only one power - Transfer - and have it go both directions.

 

Is it possible to do this? Is it posssible to buy Transfer to transfer from the character TO someone else? The various flavours of UAO or UAA don't quite seem to do it.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

Is it possible to do this? Is it posssible to buy Transfer to transfer from the character TO someone else? The various flavours of UAO or UAA don't quite seem to do it.

 

This would probably be better handled with Aid with Side Effects: Drain.

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

This would probably be better handled with Aid with Side Effects: Drain.

 

Yeah. That's the way I'm building it while I wait to see if anything else pops up.

 

I was just hoping to avoid having to buy two separate powers.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I was wondering about that. Where does it say that?

 

The FAQ for 5er claims it's in there, but doesn't give a page number.

[Christopher]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I was thinking abot using an END battery to basically serve as the "bookkeeper" of "life force" points.

There are also theses special rules for Useable Characteristics (STUN, BODY, END) in 6E, that would further limit it. Plus the bookkeeping.

What speaks against just taking the Transfer-Drain/Aid from the 6E book and deleting the "only to aid self"? Should be around 50 Real Cost by then, however.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

There are also theses special rules for Useable Characteristics (STUN, BODY, END) in 6E, that would further limit it. Plus the bookkeeping.

What speaks against just taking the Transfer-Drain/Aid from the 6E book and deleting the "only to aid self"? Should be around 50 Real Cost by then, however.

 

The OP mentioned he's using 5E, for one. Not that's a mark against the idea, true.

[Christopher]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

The OP mentioned he's using 5E' date=' for one.[/quote']

Well, that is something that can be adressed:

STUN Transfer:

Drain STUN 3d6 (30 Active Points); Unified Power (-¼) (total cost: 24 points)

plus

Aid STUN 3d6, Trigger (whenever using Drain, takes no time, resets imedeately and automatically; +1)

(36 Active Points); Linked (-½), Unified Power (-¼) (total cost: 20 points).

Total AP: 60; Total cost: 44 points.

 

It was cheaper than I thought, but it depends on how trigger is defined in 5E. The Aid still has no range (in 6E), but at least you can Aid an ally while weakening a foe. And of course costs for Aid and Drain are based on 6E, they may have changed.

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I've never heard of a unified power. Must be a 6E thing?

 

I don't need the trigger. Player has decided to use himself as the repository, so it's his choice when he aids someone.

 

 

Here's what I've built in HDv3:

 

16 Elemental Control, 32-point powers

44 1) Transfer 2 ½d6 (END/STUN to END/STUN), Limited Range: 6" (+¼), Invisible to Single Sense (+¼) (60 Active Points) 6

 

11 2) Healing to END/STUN 2 ½d6, Limited Range: 6" (+¼) (31 Active Points); Side Effect: burns equivalent END/STUN, Automatic (-½) 3

 

8 3) Defenses: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost)

- +15 PD (15 Active Points); Only up to unused points in transfer (-½), Side Effect: burns equivalent END/STUN, Automatic (-½) (Real Cost: 7) plus

- +15 ED (15 Active Points); Only up to unused points in transfer (-½), Side Effect: burns equivalent END/STUN Automatic (-½) (Real Cost: 7)

 

13 4) Detect Life force: Detect Class: (END/STUN of living things) 12- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, Sense, Targeting (32 Active Points); Concentration (½ DCV; -¼)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

I've never heard of a unified power. Must be a 6E thing?

 

 

It wasn't a standard limitation in 5e but a precursor to it was mentioned in the Rules FAQ:

 

http://www.herogames.com/rulesFAQ.htm?ruleset=Hero+System+Fifth+Edition%2C+Revised&section=&keywords=multipower&dateString=

If a character wants powers outside his EC (whether in another Power Framework or otherwise) to be affected by negative Adjustment Powers (Drains and the like) as if they were in the EC (to represent a linkage of the overall special effects of his powers), how can he buy that?

 

To simulate this sort of linkage, take this Limitation on all relevant powers outside the EC: Affected By Negative Adjustment Powers Used On [Name] EC (-1/4).

 

If a character wants his EC to suffer negative effects when any of the outside, related, powers suffer them, he should take the following Limitation on all such EC powers subject to the handicap: Affected By Negative Adjustment Powers Used On Any Outside Power Of [X] Special Effect (-1/4). (Feel free to define X more specifically if you want and the GM doesn’t object.)

 

If a character wants the slots in his Multipower to work like an EC in regard to the effects of Drain (or the like), he really should buy an EC instead of a Multipower. But if the GM doesn’t object, he could apply a variant of these -1/4 Limitations to make the Multipower work like an EC in regard to Drains and the like.

 

Of course, the value of these Limitations may change depending on the frequency with which Drains (and the like) are used in the campaign.

[Rebar]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

That sounds like 'linked', which I think has been deprecated for a while. Linked allowed you to tie a smaller power to a larger power (like a flash to an EB), as well as tie a stand-alone power to a slot in an EC or MP.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Uh, other - don't know what to call it

 

Linked means one power can't be used unless another one is active.

 

Unified Power and it's 5e precursor means if one of the unified powers is drained then ALL are equally drained (that would not necessarily happen with Linked).

 

While they may appear similar on the surface the way they function mechanically is distinctly different.