Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

How about Vol 1 of the rules? It's been out of print for a while' date=' now.[/quote']

 

Sending you a Private Message with ordering info.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

It's not so much not wanting to make my own. It's a limited amount of time followed by a desire to not really build characters from scratch. Why should I when I can take existing characters and tweak them if need be. I really wish posters would understand and respect that not everyone is like them with umlimited amounts of time and a willingness to build everything from scratch. I really hope we see CV3 before the end of 2011. I see nothing on the release schedule warrenting it being delayed.

 

I've seen no indication that anything else on the schedule is being prioritized over CV3. Have you?

 

Certainly not Time Travel Hero. Sorry if that gets priority it's HG indulging in vanity projects and ignoring what we the fans want.

 

Is TTH a full colour hardcover? If not, then they are in separate streams as far as printing goes.

 

And whether they are "indulging in vanity projects and ignoring what the fans want" is demonstrated by sales. The first two villains books are the lowest selling two books of 6e to date. If the fans want them, why aren't the sales backing that up? Are the non-fans buying all the Hero books that outsell the first two CV volumes? Do non-fans buy the majority of books? If so, I'd be interested in your definition of a fan!

 

And Mythic Hero really. With all the flak your getting with the delay of CV3 you push it even further for a book that may or may not do as well or is needed as CV3.

 

Where has anyone said Mythic Hero will delay CV3? CV3 is written, laid out and done. Unless you expect Steve Long would otherwise spend his time personally printing CV3, then I fail to see how his writing Mythic Hero delays CV3 (or Book of the Empress, which is now in layout because Steve has finished writing it).

 

As for them no knowing how to run their business. Well I would not go so far yet. Except they have me wondering if they really know what the fanbase wants. With the MMO I expected a lot more empahsis on Champions stuff. I would not expect them to neglect everything else of course yet some of their decisions seem to have me wondering if their is a huge disconnect between HG and the fanabse. I could understand seeing CV3 psuhed further along if say they would focus on HS Vehicle book or Millienium City which imo are guarenteed sellers. While MH and TTH may sell well imo not as well as the first two books I mentioned.

 

To say it one more time, the first two CV books are THE LOWEST SELLERS OF THE ENTIRE 6E LINE TO DATE. Can you explain how you reach the conclusion that the LOWEST SELLERS are the books FANS MOST WANT? I think the problem may be that what YOU PERSONALLY want is not the same thing as what THE PURCHASING PUBLIC wants.

 

Not to mention they still have not resolved their printer issues. Almost everything I want to get is not in print and for the moment I cannot get through my LGS.

 

As has been said before, I can't imagine they are happy with the printer situation. It may surprise you to learn that, in business, it is not possible to snap your fingers and get what you want. Just as you cannot snap your fingers to make CV3 appear on the shelves, the folks at DoJ cannot snap their fingers and magically resolve the printer problem.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

What are you looking for' date=' specifically? Maybe the boards can help you find what you need. I just bought Star Hero, the Equipment Guide, and the Grimoire from frpgames.com, mainly because coolstuffinc.com didn't have the Equipment Guide available (said that it was still a pre-order).[/quote']

 

Will look at frpgames for the equipment guide and grimoire when I can spare the cash. I bought SH from HG and CB from the LGS. Thanks for the link. As they safe and reliable?

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I've seen no indication that anything else on the schedule is being prioritized over CV3. Have you?

 

Book of the Empress, Mythic Hero and probably Time Travel Hero to name a few. I keep seeing other books besides CV3 being worked on the weekly updates. So that leads me to belive the CV3 is being pushed aside for those books.

 

Is TTH a full colour hardcover? If not, then they are in separate streams as far as printing goes.

 

It would be more a factor imo if they could keep the majority of their books in print. B&W or color it seems for the moment they cannot keep old or even new books in print in stock for long.

 

And whether they are "indulging in vanity projects and ignoring what the fans want" is demonstrated by sales. The first two villains books are the lowest selling two books of 6e to date. If the fans want them, why aren't the sales backing that up? Are the non-fans buying all the Hero books that outsell the first two CV volumes? Do non-fans buy the majority of books? If so, I'd be interested in your definition of a fan!

 

So I should just be happy and smile when I have unfinsihed product. Not going to happen. I see no reason not to let them know. Or did this forum suddenly become the "you can only post postive feedback about Hero". They have a good reason and while I respect that I am not happy about it. I'm both a fan and a comsumer. I still buy and like their products. As a consumer I'm disspointed in their decisioon regarding the CV books. Makes me not want to buy any other multiple book projects they have in the future

 

Where has anyone said Mythic Hero will delay CV3? CV3 is written, laid out and done. Unless you expect Steve Long would otherwise spend his time personally printing CV3, then I fail to see how his writing Mythic Hero delays CV3 (or Book of the Empress, which is now in layout because Steve has finished writing it).

 

If it's not pushing or delaying the release of the book then where is it. If it's done where is it. I don't know about anyone else yet if a person stops working on a product to focus on another product than the previous product more than likley will not see any progress. Anyone with a shred of commen sense can see that.

 

To say it one more time, the first two CV books are THE LOWEST SELLERS OF THE ENTIRE 6E LINE TO DATE. Can you explain how you reach the conclusion that the LOWEST SELLERS are the books FANS MOST WANT? I think the problem may be that what YOU PERSONALLY want is not the same thing as what THE PURCHASING PUBLIC wants.

 

I never spoke for the community. You assumed I did. I can respect your desire to defend the company. Yet your behavior imo is getting dangeroulsy close to the stereotypical fan who cannot bear to hear anything negatvoe said about his favorite company. and your not doing HG favors either. In the end you don't get to pick and choose what I or other will post on thse boards. Anyone whos too vocal about thier compliants seems to attract your attention. Who made you the sheriff of these boards. Your the one acting like you know what the public wants. When I post on these boards I refer to myself. Not the other fans of HG. Not unless I say so. As for low sales why would they get better when you have an incomplete product. If they were low before what makes you think it will get better the longer CV3 is delayed

 

As has been said before, I can't imagine they are happy with the printer situation. It may surprise you to learn that, in business, it is not possible to snap your fingers and get what you want. Just as you cannot snap your fingers to make CV3 appear on the shelves, the folks at DoJ cannot snap their fingers and magically resolve the printer problem.

 

I really wish you would not put words in my mouth. Where did I say they needed to magically needed to fix the printer situation. But hey if it makes you feel better that I did than more power to you. I also ask that you do not talk to me like I some child. You damn well know better. This type of behavior is not going to do HG any favors. It's sad yet them having printer problems is to my advantage. I have more money in my bank account. If I cannot get a product from HG I try someone else and they get my money. If I cannot get the prodict I want from anyone at all I spend my money on another company product. In the end it hurts HG more than it does me. I collect from other rpg companies so eother way I get what I want. I want HG to make as much profit as possible yet I also cannot wait forever for them to release a product either.

[danbuter1]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I suspect one of the big hurdles HG is facing is that many 5e books are still in stores, covering every possible need players have. And I personally know several people who are sticking with 5e, in any case. Hero is competing with itself. Not to mention Mutants & Masterminds, BASH, ICONS, etc. All games it didn't have to worry about when 5e came out.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Some 6E books that are still available in PDF from the Hero Games online store are not currently in stock in hard copy. One book which has long been available from the store in PDF is still not available in hard copy, for reasons the company has consistently avoided spelling out. According to Darren Watts, said book was further delayed by Hero deciding to prioritize printing a book for release at a major event that it anticipated selling better.

 

This is the information we have to go on. The situation is confusing, annoying, frustrating. To extrapolate from this that Hero Games is suffering significant financial problems is, to say the least, premature.

 

Some people wish to express their frustration to Hero Games by posting on these forums. That's their right. I seriously doubt that any further comments will materially affect the situation by this point, but if they feel the continued expression of their displeasure provides incentive for Hero to act, at the very least that may give them some emotional comfort. Other fans telling them they shouldn't or can't do this, however well-reasoned the argument against it, is unlikely to stop them and will just raise the general frustration level.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Book of the Empress' date=' Mythic Hero and probably Time Travel Hero to name a few. I keep seeing other books besides CV3 being worked on the weekly updates. So that leads me to belive the CV3 is being pushed aside for those books. [/quote']

 

Then I submit you have failed to understand the situation. CV3 was completely written before Steve began writing Book of the Empress or Mythic Hero. I thoink it was done before he started the "What do you want to see" threads for either book, but I may be in error with respect to Book of the Empress. His refusing to write any more books will not get CV3 printed one minute faster. CV3 is already fully laid out, so refusing to lay out Book of the Empress will similarly not accelerate printing of CV3. If CV3 were not fully written and laid out, the .pdf would not be available in the online store. It is, or at least I assume the purchase is effective - like you, I don't want a .pdf so I have not purchased one.

 

If a new full colour book reaches the store before CV3, that would be prioritized over CV3, which is also ready to print. Star Hero was prioritized in this fashion - this has been freely admitted, and the reasons (which would lead me to the same decision if this were my business) have been stated. I don't like it - I'd rather have CV3 - but the sales numbers drive any business. Rather than being dismayed that Star Hero went first, I am happy Hero intends to complete the trilogy, rather than decide that sales on the first two were so low it's not worth the capital to put the third into print at all. But, if they were to make such a business decision, I'd have to live with it, and I'd likely buy the .pdf so I'd at least have all the info published, albeit not in the format I would have hoped for.

 

So I should just be happy and smile when I have unfinsihed product. Not going to happen. I see no reason not to let them know.

 

Feel free. I see no reason those of us who disagree with your interpretation of the facts should refrain from posting what we see either. And I see no benefit to your posts. Frankly, the only possible impact I see it having is drawing DoJ time that could be spent dealing with the printer backlong, or producing other new products, into this thread. That's not happening, near as I can see, so it's no loss. But I don't see a gain. I'm not sure what you expect them to do - perhaps you want Steve, Fred and the Fraim Brothers to stop work on other projects and personally handwrite/draw copies of CV3 so they can be distributed faster, or you nbelieve they have half a dozen printers on speed dial, all champing at the bit to be offered the honour of printing CV3 immediately.

 

I don't see that as business reality. I do see that DoJ is their livelihood, so I very much doubt they are delaying the book to annoy "the fans", even the comparatively few of us who actually bought CV1 and 2 (which remain in print and available for sale unlike, as you note, a lot of other 6e books, so they clearly are not selling through at the same pace, just as Darren has said), but are dealing with legitimate business issues. I hope they will be able to address those more successfully than the many other RPG companies which have failed over the years between DoJ acquiring Hero and the present day - and their continued existence indicates they are not lacking in business or industry acumen.

 

Or did this forum suddenly become the "you can only post postive feedback about Hero".

 

Hope not - I've posted enough disagreements with various rules that I should be out the door too if that's the policy shift. It also isn't the "you can only post positive feedback about other peoples' negative comments" forum either.

 

They have a good reason and while I respect that I am not happy about it. I'm both a fan and a comsumer. I still buy and like their products. As a consumer I'm disspointed in their decisioon regarding the CV books. Makes me not want to buy any other multiple book projects they have in the future

 

Given the performance of the only multi-bok project to date (not counting the 6e rules, I suppose, but those were released as a unit, nor the APG, which was not presented as a series). It would not surprise me if experience to date causes DoJ is reconsidering printing colour books - I could certainly see any added profits being outweighed by the hassles they have faced due to these printer issues. As they have not announced any such change, I assume they do not consider the problems insurmountable. Time will tell.

 

And, for this fan, I don't really care if they decide to go back to 100% B&W, as pretty colour pictures aren't a big draw for me. I do understand they are a draw for other buyers, so I fully understand Hero moving in that direction, but it does not escape me that I would probably have CV3 in my hands by now if they had not switched to colour. Que sera.

 

If it's not pushing or delaying the release of the book then where is it. If it's done where is it.

 

Let's say it one more time - although I despair of you getting it at this late date.

 

As noted above, it is NOT in writing or editing, where Steve Long could move it along or delay it. Neither is it in layout where deferring layout of Book of the Empresss could accelerate it. In fact, it IS released, but only in .pdf form. To my knowledge, it is in the queue to be printed. At that level, DoJ must decide which books to prioritize. They decided (for valid reasons) to prioritize Star Hero. To my knowledge, they have not decided to prioritize any other new book (or any book, though I suspect the base rule book may take priority - a decision which may well make business sense).

 

I don't know about anyone else yet if a person stops working on a product to focus on another product than the previous product more than likley will not see any progress. Anyone with a shred of commen sense can see that.

 

If a person stops working on one product because they have finished it (as the author, editor, artist and layout of CV3 have), that strikes me as not beating a dead horse. I'd say anyone with two firing brain cells can see that continuing to write a book which is already finished will in no way accelerate its being printed and released. It seems you believe that DoJ should just shut down - not do a single thing to plan, outline, write, edit, draw or lay out another product - until this one is in the stores. I suspect any professional writer will tell you that they start writing the next publication when the previous one is completely written, pick it up again when it returns from editing, then return to one or more other projects while the first one progresses to publication. Anyone doing otherwise isn't writing full-time.

 

I never spoke for the community. You assumed I did.

 

From your recent comments, reprinted below...

 

I see nothing on the release schedule warrenting it being delayed. Certainly not Time Travel Hero. Sorry if that gets priority it's HG indulging in vanity projects and ignoring what we the fans want. And Mythic Hero really. With all the flak your getting with the delay of CV3 you push it even further for a book that may or may not do as well or is needed as CV3. As for them no knowing how to run their business. Well I would not go so far yet. Except they have me wondering if they really know what the fanbase wants. With the MMO I expected a lot more empahsis on Champions stuff. I would not expect them to neglect everything else of course yet some of their decisions seem to have me wondering if their is a huge disconnect between HG and the fanabse.

 

I believe my assumption was fully warranted. I also believe that there are very few people who are suggesting DoJ is somehow at fault in not getting CV3 onto the shelves. Go back through this and other threads, count them and list them here to demonstrate my ignorance to the Internet at large if you wish. I think there are a lot more who are disappointed in the delay but accept it was not due to any failure on the part of DoJ.

 

I can respect your desire to defend the company. Yet your behavior imo is getting dangeroulsy close to the stereotypical fan who cannot bear to hear anything negatvoe said about his favorite company. and your not doing HG favors either. In the end you don't get to pick and choose what I or other will post on thse boards. Anyone whos too vocal about thier compliants seems to attract your attention. Who made you the sheriff of these boards.

 

Like you, I am free to post my comments. If you look at my name, you will see I lack any term resembling "moderator". I don`t claim any policing rights over the boards. However, I do find your comments are misinformed, and I feel I have at least as much right to oppose your misinformed comments as you have to post them in the first place. In the end you don't get to pick and choose what I or other will post on thse boards. (my, that sounds somehow familiar) From comments I have received, I am not the only one who has a similar reaction to your and a couple of others`posts on this issue, in this thread and in one or two others.

 

Your the one acting like you know what the public wants. When I post on these boards I refer to myself. Not the other fans of HG. Not unless I say so.

 

Which you have. See above.

 

As for low sales why would they get better when you have an incomplete product. If they were low before what makes you think it will get better the longer CV3 is delayed

 

Incomplete product is one possible explanation. At least one poster has noted he is delaying his purchase to buy all three. That said, many gaming companies release product one part at a time (one year adventure paths seem to do pretty well for other companies, for example). I suspect another reason (a negative I`ve posted before - yet I`m still not banned) is that these books bring a relatively small proportion of brand-new material to the table. I suspect many gamers are satisfied with their 5e and prior writeups of these characters and therefore aren`t buying what is, essentially, largely a reprint book. The writeups aren`t all that different, I believe, from 5e. In fact, I consider it a failure (from 6e Vol 1 and 2) that the new writeups did not take advantage of the de-linking of figured characteristics to avoid having CV`s stay at a third of DEX and MCV`s stay at a third of EGO. A third reason may be that villain books are the next link from the scenario book in that they have more limited appeal than rule books and books to help design both PC`s and NPC`s.

 

It should be possible to partially measure any impact Book 3 would have had, as DoJ could presumably see whether there was an upsurge in .pdf sales of V1 and 2 when V3 came along. If there was, I suspect they would quickly intuit that many buyers of the electronic product waited until a full set was available, and speculate that many buyers of the physical product were similarly waiting. Doesn`t look like that happened, and I suspect Darren looks at sales reports pretty regularly, for both .pdf and non-.pdf (when he`s not busy trying to break the printing logjam, and carry out numerous other duties, of course).

 

I really wish you would not put words in my mouth. Where did I say they needed to magically needed to fix the printer situation.

^

 

That`s about the only way they can make the books appear on the shelves in accordance with the desire you seem to express.

 

But hey if it makes you feel better that I did than more power to you. I also ask that you do not talk to me like I some child. You damn well know better. This type of behavior is not going to do HG any favors. It's sad yet them having printer problems is to my advantage. I have more money in my bank account. If I cannot get a product from HG I try someone else and they get my money. If I cannot get the prodict I want from anyone at all I spend my money on another company product. In the end it hurts HG more than it does me. I collect from other rpg companies so eother way I get what I want. I want HG to make as much profit as possible yet I also cannot wait forever for them to release a product either.

 

No comment I can make to the first half of your comments will make any difference, so I will refrain. If ranting at me for disagreeing with you makes you happy, by all means feel free to do so.

 

And HG doesn`t need me to do them any favours. I post because I disagree with your comments, not because Steve, Darren or anyone else at DoJ needs me (or anyone else) to leap to their defense. You reply because you disagree with my comments. And so the Internet Circle of Life continues...

 

They`re not getting my dollars for products they aren`t producing either. I can`t see why anyone with a grain of common sense would believe they fail to understand that, or would be failing to do whatever they can to resolve the issue. I choose to believe (perhaps naively, you may think - and you might be right) that they have made every effort they can, and are continuing to do so. I don`t think they lasted this long by being poor businesspeople.

 

I don`t find ranting at HG is likely to get the book on the shelves any faster. Hopefully, it is making you feel better.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Maybe this pent up demand and passion for the book will equate to sales if they can ever finally bring the thing to market. So there's that I guess.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

If a new full colour book reaches the store before CV3, that would be prioritized over CV3, which is also ready to print. Star Hero was prioritized in this fashion - this has been freely admitted, and the reasons (which would lead me to the same decision if this were my business) have been stated. I don't like it - I'd rather have CV3 - but the sales numbers drive any business. Rather than being dismayed that Star Hero went first, I am happy Hero intends to complete the trilogy, rather than decide that sales on the first two were so low it's not worth the capital to put the third into print at all. But, if they were to make such a business decision, I'd have to live with it, and I'd likely buy the .pdf so I'd at least have all the info published, albeit not in the format I would have hoped for.

 

Well they really have no choice from a business perspective i not finshing the trilogy. It's one thing to deliver only one volume and cancel the trilogy. It's another to not only delay the book for months than cancel it. It would imo be a PR nightamre.

 

[

Given the performance of the only multi-bok project to date (not counting the 6e rules, I suppose, but those were released as a unit, nor the APG, which was not presented as a series). It would not surprise me if experience to date causes DoJ is reconsidering printing colour books - I could certainly see any added profits being outweighed by the hassles they have faced due to these printer issues. As they have not announced any such change, I assume they do not consider the problems insurmountable. Time will tell.

 

I would be surprised if they stopped with color printing. Unless it cutting into their profits from what I have read fans on these boards seem to like them. Not every book has to be in color. Equipment guides are perfectly okay imo in B&W. They need a better printer. Or one that can at least deliver the older books.

 

And, for this fan, I don't really care if they decide to go back to 100% B&W, as pretty colour pictures aren't a big draw for me. I do understand they are a draw for other buyers, so I fully understand Hero moving in that direction, but it does not escape me that I would probably have CV3 in my hands by now if they had not switched to colour. Que sera.

 

With Gurps which imo is their main competitor they should keep so books in color just to compete against them. Along with M&M being color it's something that they need to do imo.

 

As noted above, it is NOT in writing or editing, where Steve Long could move it along or delay it. Neither is it in layout where deferring layout of Book of the Empresss could accelerate it. In fact, it IS released, but only in .pdf form. To my knowledge, it is in the queue to be printed. At that level, DoJ must decide which books to prioritize. They decided (for valid reasons) to prioritize Star Hero. To my knowledge, they have not decided to prioritize any other new book (or any book, though I suspect the base rule book may take priority - a decision which may well make business sense).

 

I get it. I also ask that you understand how very frustrating it can be to not get a book I want.

 

 

Like you, I am free to post my comments. If you look at my name, you will see I lack any term resembling "moderator". I don`t claim any policing rights over the boards. However, I do find your comments are misinformed, and I feel I have at least as much right to oppose your misinformed comments as you have to post them in the first place. In the end you don't get to pick and choose what I or other will post on thse boards. (my, that sounds somehow familiar) From comments I have received, I am not the only one who has a similar reaction to your and a couple of others`posts on this issue, in this thread and in one or two others.

 

I'm man enough to admit your right and I should not have spoken for the fanbase. I will say this even if we disagree I can respect you for being man enough to tell me to face so to speak. If someone dislikes or disagrees with a post they should tell me. Not go around hiding and talking about it behind a posters back. How is that any better.

 

Incomplete product is one possible explanation. At least one poster has noted he is delaying his purchase to buy all three. That said, many gaming companies release product one part at a time (one year adventure paths seem to do pretty well for other companies, for example). I suspect another reason (a negative I`ve posted before - yet I`m still not banned) is that these books bring a relatively small proportion of brand-new material to the table. I suspect many gamers are satisfied with their 5e and prior writeups of these characters and therefore aren`t buying what is, essentially, largely a reprint book. The writeups aren`t all that different, I believe, from 5e. In fact, I consider it a failure (from 6e Vol 1 and 2) that the new writeups did not take advantage of the de-linking of figured characteristics to avoid having CV`s stay at a third of DEX and MCV`s stay at a third of EGO. A third reason may be that villain books are the next link from the scenario book in that they have more limited appeal than rule books and books to help design both PC`s and NPC`s.

 

I think another reason is that they managed to fit the villians inforamation into one book under 5E. Putting into 3 books maybe seen as an attempt at a cash grab. I don't agree with that. Of course any company should want to make more money and to me the better production values are worth it.

 

In any case I would to apologize for my ranting to you and everyone else on this board. Sometimes my desire to get a product gets in the way of any good sense I have. I would like to also extent my hand in a virtual handshake to show that their are no hard feelings between us.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I think another reason is that they managed to fit the villians inforamation into one book under 5E. Putting into 3 books maybe seen as an attempt at a cash grab. I don't agree with that. Of course any company should want to make more money and to me the better production values are worth it.

 

I've seen other folks make this mistaken assumption, so I feel I should correct it before it perpetuates. The villains covered in the 6E Champions Villains trilogy were never in one 5E book. They were spread out over Conquerors Killers And Crooks; The Mystic World; Arcane Adversaries; Evil Unleashed; Champions Worldwide; Stronghold; Champions Of The North; Villains Vandals And Vermin; Champions Universe News of the World; Book Of The Destroyer; and Book Of The Machine. (I may be forgetting one or two other volumes.) That's not including the villains new for 6E. Steve Long wanted one compilation for all these characters, organized to make them easier to reference. Each volume is easily as big as or bigger than any of the other villain compendia, so you're getting more concentrated villainy than ever before.

 

In any case I would to apologize for my ranting to you and everyone else on this board. Sometimes my desire to get a product gets in the way of any good sense I have. I would like to also extent my hand in a virtual handshake to show that their are no hard feelings between us.

 

FWIW my respect for you has gone up.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

And speaking of mistaken assumptions :

 

The writeups aren`t all that different' date=' I believe, from 5e. In fact, I consider it a failure (from 6e Vol 1 and 2) that the new writeups did not take advantage of the de-linking of figured characteristics to avoid having CV`s stay at a third of DEX and MCV`s stay at a third of EGO.[/quote']

 

I've gone over the stats of most of the villains in the Champions Villains trilogy. In many cases their CV and MCV differs from what it would have been if calculated as a Figured Characteristic from DEX and EGO as per 5E. In fact, usually a character's OCV and DCV are different values, as are OMCV and DMCV.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I've seen other folks make this mistaken assumption' date=' so I feel I should correct it before it perpetuates. The villains covered in the 6E [i']Champions Villains[/i] trilogy were never in one 5E book. They were spread out over Conquerors Killers And Crooks; The Mystic World; Arcane Adversaries; Evil Unleashed; Champions Worldwide; Stronghold; Champions Of The North; Villains Vandals And Vermin; Champions Universe News of the World; Book Of The Destroyer; and Book Of The Machine. (I may be forgetting one or two other volumes.) That's not including the villains new for 6E. Steve Long wanted one compilation for all these characters, organized to make them easier to reference. Each volume is easily as big as or bigger than any of the other villain compendia, so you're getting more concentrated villainy than ever before.

 

Your right it was my mistake. The 5E of CKC was an update of previous 4E versions villians books. I'm in favor of having everything in one place. So I'm not the one who needs convincing.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well they really have no choice from a business perspective i not finshing the trilogy. It's one thing to deliver only one volume and cancel the trilogy. It's another to not only delay the book for months than cancel it. It would imo be a PR nightamre.

 

I think if sales were so poor that it made no sense to publish, they would have said that (whether with a cancellation announcement or a commitment to complete the set anyway). They gain nothing from misleading the readers, and especially from saying they're going to publish it if they don't intend to do so, so when they say "we deferred it in favour of Star Hero due to expected sales, and we're still going to publish", I see no reason not to believe them.

 

I would be surprised if they stopped with color printing. Unless it cutting into their profits from what I have read fans on these boards seem to like them. Not every book has to be in color. Equipment guides are perfectly okay imo in B&W. They need a better printer. Or one that can at least deliver the older books.

 

With Gurps which imo is their main competitor they should keep so books in color just to compete against them. Along with M&M being color it's something that they need to do imo.

 

I think colour printing is a good marketing decision, but I don't see the sales reports. It clearly hasn't been a disaster or they wouldn't keep on with it, so I assume the results to date justify the hassle factor to date.

 

I get it. I also ask that you understand how very frustrating it can be to not get a book I want.

 

I don't expect anyone is happy with the situation, least of all DoJ. They're the ones who aren't getting the sales dollars until the book is printed.

 

I'm man enough to admit your right and I should not have spoken for the fanbase. I will say this even if we disagree I can respect you for being man enough to tell me to face so to speak. If someone dislikes or disagrees with a post they should tell me. Not go around hiding and talking about it behind a posters back. How is that any better.

 

Agreed. And I don't doubt there's no shortage of frustration in the fanbase overall - no one wants the books delayed, and I can't imagine anyone being happy with the status quo.

 

I think another reason is that they managed to fit the villians inforamation into one book under 5E. Putting into 3 books maybe seen as an attempt at a cash grab. I don't agree with that. Of course any company should want to make more money and to me the better production values are worth it.

 

LL covers that off above - there's definitely far more in the trilogy than there was in CKC. As I understand it, CV is intended as the full complement of villains books for Champions (itself a bit disappointing, but the sales figures don't motivate changing that approach), although we'll doubtless see new characters in other books for the line, just no more books of villains. If anything, this is the opposite of a cash grab (how many Monster Manuals are published per D&D Edition, and how many in each new book are actually innovative and new?)

 

In any case I would to apologize for my ranting to you and everyone else on this board. Sometimes my desire to get a product gets in the way of any good sense I have. I would like to also extent my hand in a virtual handshake to show that their are no hard feelings between us.

 

Virtual reciprocation. [We don't have a handshake emoticon, do we?]

 

I've gone over the stats of most of the villains in the Champions Villains trilogy. In many cases their CV and MCV differs from what it would have been if calculated as a Figured Characteristic from DEX and EGO as per 5E. In fact' date=' usually a character's OCV and DCV are different values, as are OMCV and DMCV.[/quote']

 

That will be nice to see. I haven't dug through the stats myself (I generally modify any character I drag into my games anyway). For myself, I think DEX, especially, should have dropped off markedly (as it is no longer the One True Way to build a character who is effective in combat without vastly overspending), but that ship sailed with the sample characters in the core rules, and I appreciate the desire for reverse compatibility influencing the decision.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I do hold out hope that eventually when they run out of rhings to publish for their lines we get a heroes version of CV3. I know sales of CV3 were poor yet I think it's something that is needed. At worst instead of publishing it the usual way maybe the could ransom the book like ohter rpg publishers do.

 

No matter what is said about CV3 chances are some fans will always consider it a cash grab. No matter how many ways you explain it. Apprantly a company can only survive on the goodwill of the fanbase and nothing else. Trying to make a profit seems to be a crime. Then again having been in the hobby for so many years rpg fans I'm sorry to say can be cheap sometimes. They want tommorows rpgs and their products now at yesterdays prices. The worst are the ones that complain that a company releases too many books. It's not like anyone is forcing anyone to buy new books. Nor will a new edtion invalidate an older edition and make them mysteriously dissappear.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

As I understand it' date=' CV is intended as the full complement of villains books for Champions (itself a bit disappointing, but the sales figures don't motivate changing that approach), although we'll doubtless see new characters in other books for the line, just no more books of villains. [/quote']

 

That's my understanding as well. Steve has written that he expects new books to contain more villains, but not be dedicated to them. Already Champions Beyond, for example, has a whole slew of new villains

[Steve]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I wonder which will be coming out first, Book of the Empress or CV3? The Empress book is in color, right?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I think BOTE is B&W.

[ashton2]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

In any case I would to apologize for my ranting to you and everyone else on this board. Sometimes my desire to get a product gets in the way of any good sense I have. I would like to also extent my hand in a virtual handshake to show that their are no hard feelings between us.

 

No apology needed, I don’t think you should have even said this. You had a rant, your passionate about hero, he replied, he clarified a few items that you may have not known, ie. sales. It probably should have stopped there, but you have your voice and he, albeit arrogant and condescending it is, has his voice. I never felt you broached talking for the fanbase. He "may have received comments from others", but wasn't from me. Ranting at Hero doesn’t help, yes, but asking after a bit of time the status should be acceptable, especially if done with a little less rant.

 

I get everything that has been said: 1. Poor sales (for what ever reason, 5e being around, waiting for set, price point, GM vs player resources, etc); 2. Strategic resource allocation/prioritization for maximum revenue stream, especially for an industry wide event; 3. Bad supplier and/or supplier management with a printer they may or may not have a lot of influence/leverage with; 4. Deciding to continue other products to maintain revenue stream and increase capital that may be needed to print these products. I have managed 15 years in an industry leading company to understand this.

 

The only thing I don’t understand is why this never gets brought up in the weekly homepage communication from Mr. Long. I understand not bringing this into every weekly update, be it lack of new developments or purely not to be doom and gloom, but even it was included biweekly or monthly (its been that long) with a simple communication snippet about status would help defuse tensions. And this is the official communication method, I am not asking "Steve, Fred and the Fraim Brothers to stop work on other projects" to communicate in the forums, that they do communicate with fans says something about them and their company, but is not expected in any form. That the official communication method doesn’t address this, say once a month, is surprising.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I just want what I want. When books stop arriving on a regular basis. We get nervous, paranoid, and concerned that the books we love may never appear. For some HERO Games and other RPG's are our addiction. Some of us mainline Gaming Books and begin withdrawl when too much time passes between fixes. You Folks are our Dealers, the Updates are our Pushers, and we are your Customers/Addicts.

 

Please post regularily and Sticky a Book Releases Thread.

 

QM, HERO Games addict for 21yrs. (Cause no one likes a quitter)

 

This might be a good idea' date=' if only to allow "Where is this book" threads to be referred to the Book Release sticky thread in, say, company questions.[/quote']

 

This is a really good idea. With the extremely long delays now happening between the release of a pdf and a printed book' date=' having more information on printing status would be great.[/quote']

 

Still in favour of this, whether a sticky in a (perhaps locked) thread, or a link to a "Works in Progress" page.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

The only thing I don’t understand is why this never gets brought up in the weekly homepage communication from Mr. Long. I understand not bringing this into every weekly update' date=' be it lack of new developments or purely not to be doom and gloom, but even it was included biweekly or monthly (its been that long) with a simple communication snippet about status would help defuse tensions. And this is the official communication method, I am not asking "Steve, Fred and the Fraim Brothers to stop work on other projects" to communicate in the forums, that they do communicate with fans says something about them and their company, but is not expected in any form. That the official communication method doesn’t address this, say once a month, is surprising.[/quote']

 

Steve's response to questions about this issue, on the forums or during his weekly chats, has always been some variation on, "we'll let you know the news as soon as we have some." I guess there's nothing new on this front to report yet.

[brionl]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Steve's response to questions about this issue' date=' on the forums or during his weekly chats, has always been some variation on, "we'll let you know the news as soon as we have some." I guess there's nothing new on this front to report yet.[/quote']

 

"Generalissimo Francisco Franco...

Is still dead!"

[ashton2]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

NNU again in Friday update.....

 

[The Shade]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

It's still weeks' date=' guys. We're working full time here on this (and our other problems, like IPR being hacked this week). I have hopes it will be ready to go very soon, but I've definitely learned not to give out dates before they're 100% set in stone. dw[/quote']

 

Weeks have now become months, just curious if there's a status update on even the intent at this point - has the printing of CV3 been shelved?

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'm just curious as to why if the book is nearly ready to go why work on the Martial world instead of getting CV3 released. You think with all the flak they received for delaying it that they would want to get it out yesterday. At this rate were looking at a 2012 release. Unless they can pull off a miracle 2012 is only a month and a half away. The way things are going this has a chance of happening before the release of cv3 (yes I'm dating myself)

.

[Arc Esu]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'm just curious as to why if the book is nearly ready to go why work on the Martial world instead of getting CV3 released.

 

Steve is a writer, not a publisher or a printer. Once he has written a book, there is nothing further he can do to make it come out faster. His work on Mythic Hero or the Martial World has nothing to do with CV3 being printed. This has been explained before.