How to Prosecute?

[Mastermind]

One of my player killed a member of Psi (Soulfire to be exact...a young misguided youth of 19 ). We've taken a campaign hiatus which gives me time to think on what to do. I'm thinking of Murder Two and haven't decided if the DA wants to try to prove pre-meditation since the group was on patrol to do battle with Psi and "ran" into them. It was definitely an excessive use of force...Oh yeah, and the "hero" left the scene of the crime.

 

Psi can also run amok with this...bad publicity and mental suggestions galore!

[Agent X]

Re: How to Prosecute?

 

Originally posted by Mastermind

One of my player killed a member of Psi (Soulfire to be exact...a young misguided youth of 19 ). We've taken a campaign hiatus which gives me time to think on what to do. I'm thinking of Murder Two and haven't decided if the DA wants to try to prove pre-meditation since the group was on patrol to do battle with Psi and "ran" into them. It was definitely an excessive use of force...Oh yeah, and the "hero" left the scene of the crime.

 

Psi can also run amok with this...bad publicity and mental suggestions galore!

I would be more concerned about whether this player is going to continue to do things like this than how to try his character. Pre-meditation doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing. Depending on circumstances it could be First Degree Homicide.

[umbra]

My question is who is going to bring him in for Justice? His team-mates? If the police try to catch him, there might be more violence. Or they could hire a "bounty hunter" hero to capture him... which would be interesting to see how his team-mates react to that. Also is there some sort of super "prison" in your game?

[Chuckg]

Well, if you're using the default Champions U, there's always PRIMUS to fill your superhero-arresting needs... all the way up to the Golden Avenger, should the case require it.

[Mastermind]

Re: Re: How to Prosecute?

 

Originally posted by Agent X

I would be more concerned about whether this player is going to continue to do things like this than how to try his character. Pre-meditation doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing. Depending on circumstances it could be First Degree Homicide.

 

The way he reacted in game..shock and horror at the devastation that he had just wrought...makes me think that he will not do this again.

 

I'm wondering if the defense of "I didn't know he was that weak?" will stand up in court.

 

Definitely, fleeing from the scene of the crime makes things worse.

 

Unforutnatley, he was the last one standing in the area. The speedster had been compelled to run across the Atlantic, two teammembers were down, and the last had just teleported one of the downed members to safety (plus she's from another dimension). Haven't gotten that far in the story hour (this happens in issue # 14)/

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by umbra

My question is who is going to bring him in for Justice? His team-mates? If the police try to catch him, there might be more violence. Or they could hire a "bounty hunter" hero to capture him... which would be interesting to see how his team-mates react to that. Also is there some sort of super "prison" in your game?

 

I think a couple of his teammates will try and bring him in. Another superteam...the team has a good relationship with the Champions and PRIMUS.

 

Their base has a containment cell. Then in the CU there's Stronghold.

[J4y]

I'm not familiar with Psi, but it almost always seems weird to bring police and the courts into superhero games. If the police are all high and mighty about arresting and prosecuting heros, why the hell aren't they out trying to put sniper rifle rounds through the heads of supervillians? It makes no sense at all to punish superheros while ignoring the actions of supervillians. If the country's military and police forces aren't activly and visibly trying to take down these supervillians then you have to cut the players some slack, after all, even if their actions were so grossly wrong they were supervillians, the police and military wouldn't be coming after them, right?

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by Chuckg

Well, if you're using the default Champions U, there's always PRIMUS to fill your superhero-arresting needs... all the way up to the Golden Avenger, should the case require it.

 

Yup! Two of the team-members have contacts with PRIMUS. They may even help PRIMUS.

[Ellis]

In my campaign, I actually have cases (some that happened during play, and others just made up), but it helps, so the players and characters have an idea of the law.

 

There's:

United States v. Fireball, P-12 U.S 1434 (1965). Use of paranormal weaponry, whether created or innate, against obvious non-paranormals, is unlawful, and constitutes Murder One charges and penalties, even when accidental.

*Translation: A paranormal using high force against a normal is a greater crime than against another paranormal.

 

However, what you're describing (the unintentional murder of a costumed villain) would fall under:

 

Hydraman v. Fuschia Frenzy, P-19 U.S. 154 (1972). Costumed vigilantes are exempt from the protection of the law, and are considered to have no rights for purposes of lawsuit.

"Volenti non fit injuria," If one knows and comprehends danger and willingly exposes themself to it, they may not recover damages in court."

*Translation: Masked and brightly costumed, non-registered paranormals may not seek compensatory or punitive damages if their injuries are brought about from such activities as patrolling the city, and fighting crime without police powers.

 

Now, it's a little late for your TT campaign, but you could have this case become a precedent. Just a thought.

[Blue]

Defense #1: Guilty. If the hero is truly reticent then maybe his lawyer can get him less time for a plead bargain.

 

Defense #2: Not Guilty. "I wasn't even there, the tapes are doctored, your honor." Think of how Rodney king's attackers beat the rap, even though you were looking at the evidence. Or even the infamous, "That's not me, it's a duplicate!"

 

Defense #3: Not Guilty by reason of self-defense. With an unconscious victim you'd have to prove that you were still in danger or thought you were. "He was attacking me mentally, your honor. He didn't have to physically move. That's why I killed him."

 

Defense#4: Not Guilty by reason of disease or Mental Defect. "I was in a battle frenzy brought on because as a child I was tortured by demons."

[McCoy]

Re: Re: Re: How to Prosecute?

 

Originally posted by Mastermind

Unforutnatley, he was the last one standing in the area. The speedster had been compelled to run across the Atlantic, two teammembers were down, and the last had just teleported one of the downed members to safety (plus she's from another dimension). Haven't gotten that far in the story hour (this happens in issue # 14)/

Who shot first, and did the team give the perp a chance to surrender?

 

If the perp put two of the team down, this sounds like self defense to me, unless it was an insurance shot or the perp was trying to surrender.

 

Charge him with obstruction for leaving the scene, sentence him to probation, if he has a Secret ID he has to reveal his true ID to courts and police. If player is remorseful, that should be sufficent.

[Koshka]

Re: Re: Re: How to Prosecute?

 

Originally posted by Mastermind

The way he reacted in game..shock and horror at the devastation that he had just wrought...makes me think that he will not do this again.

 

I'm wondering if the defense of "I didn't know he was that weak?" will stand up in court.

 

Doubtful if he's an experienced hero. Double doubtful if his team has sanction. The impression I've gotten is that sanctioned heroes are held to a higher standard, and should know what their powers can do to someone. If he's a novice hero, he might get away with it with lots of witness-box angst.

[J4y]

The impression I've gotten is that sanctioned heroes are held to a higher standard, and should know what their powers can do to someone. If he's a novice hero, he might get away with it with lots of witness-box angst.

 

On the flip-side, sanctioned heros have a track record to stand by and sometimes accidents DO happen, the novice has no such history and will be under more suspicion of being bloodthirsty and doing it on purpose.

[Vondy]

Is it possible that the hero - in the middle of a battle with a powerful and feared group of villians whose powers make them a legitimate threat - would have reason to believe they, their teammates, or innocent bystanders were in danger of grevious bodily injury or death? Or capture at the hands of a group of villians believed to engage in illegal experiments? Or that by letting them escape others were going to be in imminent danger in the near future?

 

If they did - or their attorney can convince a jury that they did - it may well fit the definition of LEGALLY JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE. Also, unless the player is particularly mature a drawn out trial, or the end of their character's career may not be the way. I would recommend, if possible, having the DA decide not to go for it and make the consequences more social in nature:

 

How do their teammates react?

How does the media react?

How does the public react?

How does the superheroic community react?

How about the supervillians?

What does the hero do the first time a homicidal villian tells him: "you're no better than I am!" and snidely adds" "hero."

How will the law react if it happens a second time?

If his identity is know how does it impact his non-heroing life?

 

Lots of possibilities.

[Battlestaff]

Homicide

 

Is the hero/team officially sanctioned in any way? If they are, then whatever organization sactioned them would most likely require the hero turn himself in, or face the loss of sanction for the team and all members, thus making them vigilantes.

 

Also, if he thought that Soulfire was tougher than he turned out to be, the charge could be reduced from Murder to Reckless Homicide. To determine whether to charge a person with Murder or Manslaughter, you have to look at intent. If he in no way intended to cause Soulfire's death, then it isn't Murder (or Murder One, or however the law reads in the state your campaign is set in). However, he could still be found guilty of a lesser crime, such as reckless homicide, etc. I would say go to a law library (most county courthouses have one), and look up your states Murder statutes, and see how they are set up.

 

As to self-defense, the hero would have to prove that at trial. While the state would be required to prove that the hero caused Soulfire's death beyond a reasonable doubt, in a self-defense claim, the burden is on the hero to show that he was in danger, and responded with an appropriate level of force.

 

However, with jury nullification (the concept that the jury could ignore the law and find the defendant not guilty, even if the evidence is sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt), the hero could walk on the charge. But again, he would have to go to trial.

[CrosshairCollie]

There are a few other things I can think of ...

 

1. Did he kill Soulfire in one shot? If not, did he restrain himself after the first attack? A one-shot kill may be an accident; you can't accidentally blast someone six times. Well, you could, but you'd be REALLY clumsy.

 

2. How was he reacting during the fight? Was he being inordinantly aggressive/belligerent before the killing strike, or was he pulling the 'don't make me hurt you' line?

 

3. How experienced is he with his powers, and has he fought similar villains before without pulping them?

 

Now, if the answer to 1 is 'one shot', 2 is 'not belligerently', and 3 is 'not very', you could probably go with Negligent Homicide (it was an accident), which is still pretty steep. Unless it was premeditated, it can't be murder, I don't think.

[Tech]

I'm no lawyer or law expert and having said that...

 

Is PSI known to be dangerous to the police? Do they know about PSI's mental abilities, even if in only general terms (Hey, they can control people's minds!). This has to be taken into consideration. Was Soulfire known to be dangerous, violent, subject to sadistic attacks on people, etc etc?

[Vondy]

Re: Homicide

 

Originally posted by Battlestaff

 

As to self-defense, the hero would have to prove that at trial. While the state would be required to prove that the hero caused Soulfire's death beyond a reasonable doubt, in a self-defense claim, the burden is on the hero to show that he was in danger, and responded with an appropriate level of force.

 

This isn't entirely accurate, and assumes the DA has no leeway in prosecuting crimes, or will automatically take a case to trial if they can win it, even if the circumstances point to the likelyhood that the homicide was legally justifiable.

 

While such a case would likely go to trial, it isn't a garuntee that it would. The police and DA's investigators would have to conduct their investigation first, and then the DA would have to decide 1) was it criminal (meriting prosecution), and 2) do I have a snowballs chance in hell of winning this thing. It very much depends on the circumstances, the reputations of the hero and villian in question, and the nature of the state laws (murder is almost invariably a state level crime, and codes vary) and political leanings of the local electorate.

 

For example - in Seattle, if you kill someone in self defense, you are very much going to have to defend yourself in trial (even if its obvious what occured). In Eastern Washington, just 90 minutes away, that isn't so cut and dried. The electorate there is much more conservative, as are the politicians, which includes the various DAs.

 

As to being sanctioned - if they are it would likely go through an internal review process similiar to that a police officer who uses deadly force goes through. Which begs the question: does the state in question have different standards of lethal force for civillians and public safety personnel? Some state has more stringent standards for the PO-lice.

[Mastermind]

Some heroes in the group are sanctioned. Some are not. I think the hero that killed Soulfire is not.

 

I think that the higher ups of the sanctioned heroes are going to ask that they bring their comrade in.

[Ghost who Walks]

Bleh.

When did Champions become LA Law?

 

*Begin Rant*

First rule, never, ever, have your players in a courtroom. They are boring IRL, and even more boring in a game. Only play it if a fight is going to happen, an alien is the judge, or if Dr. Destroyer is the surprise witness.

 

Court cases drag on for monthes, and then the trial starts. The whole reason, in most campaigns that people are flying around beating up criminals is because the LEGAL SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK!

 

*End Rant*

 

Way I would end this, without a trial. PSI, mourning for their dead member (Make sure everyone can buy 'Remember Soulfire! bumpersstickers), decides to capture the hero who killed him, and brainwash him into helping them.

 

The player continues to control his character, but is limited in what actions he can do. He meets the people who knew Soulfire during this time, and finds out there are those who miss him. He also commits several crimes, in his mind-controlled state.

 

Ordered to bring in the now rampaging PSI (who are stealing money to build the 'Soulfire Memorial'), the players team captured the group (temporarily, at least). The brainwashed hero is recovered, and enough doubt remains in the case, the charges are dropped. (police are unsure if PSI had him under their control when the murder was committed)

 

In the end, the player is free. Everyone thinks he was mind controlled. Deep down however, he knows the truth.

 

Or if all that is to much trouble, just have him haunted by the Ghost of Soulfire, who takes over his mind and body occasionally. (Accidental change, when struck by Psionic attack)

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

Bleh.

Or if all that is to much trouble, just have him haunted by the Ghost of Soulfire, who takes over his mind and body occasionally. (Accidental change, when struck by Psionic attack)

 

I like both your ideas. Especially the one that I quoted. Actually, my players are looking forward to the bringing in and prosecution of one of their teammates. I actually think that they want things to go to trial.

[gewing]

Re: Re: Re: How to Prosecute?

 

WHY did he run? That is the biggest thing that is likely to put him in jail.

 

 

Otherwise, SOunds like a situation where the DA will press charges, but the character has a good chance of a not guilty verdict.

Depends on the details, though.

 

If he pushed his strength against an unconscious target and aimed for the head, premeditated murder conviction.

 

If it was a mass fight and he was afraid for his life, maybe nothing but an unsuccessful prosecution on his record.

 

 

Originally posted by Mastermind

The way he reacted in game..shock and horror at the devastation that he had just wrought...makes me think that he will not do this again.

 

I'm wondering if the defense of "I didn't know he was that weak?" will stand up in court.

 

Definitely, fleeing from the scene of the crime makes things worse.

 

Unforutnatley, he was the last one standing in the area. The speedster had been compelled to run across the Atlantic, two teammembers were down, and the last had just teleported one of the downed members to safety (plus she's from another dimension). Haven't gotten that far in the story hour (this happens in issue # 14)/

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by Mastermind

I like both your ideas. Especially the one that I quoted. Actually, my players are looking forward to the bringing in and prosecution of one of their teammates. I actually think that they want things to go to trial.

 

Glad to help, let us know how it tursn out. I've gotten interested.

 

A good way to do play out something routine and ordinary (like a trial), is to make the lawyers and judge slightly "off". Depening on the state, these guys can serve on the bench a long time...

 

It depends on your campaign, but high profile cases shouldn't be ordinary. Everyone involved in it is going to write their book afterwards, after all.

 

Don't forget to have some enemy of the player come back, and try to influence the jury (hadn't seen anyone suggest that one yet)

 

If you go with the "possessed by soulfire" plot, introduce it gradually. Have the player get these blackouts, miss sleep, and vanish during fights. Money vanishes from his bank account, and their is that strange woman who keeps canting him to call her back...

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

Don't forget to have some enemy of the player come back, and try to influence the jury (hadn't seen anyone suggest that one yet)

 

 

I'm sure that Psi will make its attempts. Maybe some others.

[Captain Super]

What to do?

 

Caveat- The real world should impact role-playing. In my opinion, the realistic consequences of paranormals is the best part of a champions campaighn. I am a criminal defense attorney in Detroit, MI. The real world of law is not as exciting as the media would have you believe. If you want law in your RPG focus on entertainment and drama rather than reality.

 

Now, the important thing is to decide what do you want the PCs to discover? The real consequences of their powers, inherent corruption in the system, to put them in a novel situation where super powers are useless (in a courtroom), etc. This is more importsnt than an accurate representation of the law.

 

Also this is a chance to make some changes in your campaign. Look at the DC mini-series from a few years back (what was it called?) where a future hero MAGOG went on trial for the murder of the Joker and after the acquittal, Superman went into exile and the morality of supers went down the toilet. Now that's cool.

 

Yes the DA could charge him with Murder 1, Murder 2, or even Voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter, depending on the circumstances. Imagine when the PC has to hire an attorney who suggests unethical and illegal actions to ensure a not guilty verdict, ala Runaway Jury and hijinks ensues. To further complicate matters have PSI also try to fix the jury and the PCs have to fight fire with fire.

 

The DA could also decide not to charge him. Public Outrage begins to grow, influenced by PSI operatives. Protesters begin to interfere with battles, placing the PCs in more trouble, especially if any normals get hurt. The hero could also be sued for wrongful death regardless of criminal charges with even more unethical activities of the attorneys.

 

And for the ultimate twist: the villian is not actually dead. This is all an elaborate ruse cooked up by PSI to get the PCs off of their back for a while. An unknown villian, with the power to slightly alter memory combined with a robot duplicate is part of the set-up against the PC. Soon a revenant in the appearance of soulfire begins to stalk the PC . . . well you get the idea.

 

(As an aside, a District Attorney system is only one of many types of systems for state prosecutions. In Mich., home of Millenium City, they use a County Prosecutor system instead. Most people are familiar with the idea of a DA from television as it is the system used in New York, and therefore the subject of TV and Movies.)

 

JMHO, YMMV