Basic/Expert Spellcasting

[CrosshairCollie]

Something I'm pondering for an FH game; I've accumulated all my spell schools from various sources and all that. I want some of them to be 'advanced studies', for lack of a better term; the kind of stuff that would boggle the mind of even most wizards. Stuff like Chronomancy, Chaos Magic, and Arcanomancy ('the magic of magic'). The sort of thing some people would simply never be able to wrap their heads around, no matter how hard they try.

 

The question, of course, is how to represent this in the game (or even if it really needs to be mechanically represented). 4e spell colleges had an 'Expertise' limitation, akin to the way you have to buy 10 points of martial arts if you want to buy any, but somehow that feels flaky as a limitation to me. It does seem to represent a degree of required dedication, though, since you can't just 'dabble' in it with two or three spells.

 

Other options?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Perhaps a Perk? Or a minimum relevant Magic Skill Roll -- say, 14- or greater?

[Lucius]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Or a requirement to have a certain minimum in other spell "schools" first.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Required to have a palindromedary

[L. Marcus]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

... Or just meta-rule that a character needs X amount of Real Points/Y amount of Spells before getting access to The Good Stuff.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

You might require the more advanced spells to take the RSR penalties at the -1/5 AP level instead of -1/10 AP. This would also let you give the more trivial spells the -1/20 penalty.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

You might require the more advanced spells to take the RSR penalties at the -1/5 AP level instead of -1/10 AP. This would also let you give the more trivial spells the -1/20 penalty.

 

Hadn't considered that, that's a good idea. Since every Arcana/Sphere/whatever is going to be its own Power skill, multiple-school casters are likely to be rare. Would it be out of order to require the casters do have an appropriate Science skill for the Arcana in question (Chronal Theory, Chaos Theory, Metamagic Theory) as well?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

I suppose you could take the RSR Limitation more than once.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Is that strictly legal, though? I prefer to stick to the rules when at all feasible (or at the very least, be aware that I am breaking the rules).

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

I don't see any rules forbidding it. I'm not sure requiring multiple skill rolls is a good idea, though, especially with high AP penalties. The chance of successfully using the power can get pretty low.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

True, at which point it gets to the 'too cumbersome for any player to ever consider taking'. Perhaps just the requirement to have the skill, but not roll it with every spell as a 'meta-rule' rather than a limitation.

[Lucius]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

If you have a few such meta rules, you could reflect them with a -1/4 Limitation "Spell" rather like a cloud of rules about "common and dramatic sense" are folded into Limitations like "Real Weapon" and "Real Armor."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Metapalindromedary

[L. Marcus]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

... Real Spell? I'd buy that!

[dmjalund]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Spell Limitation

 

L - I - M - I - T - A - T - I - O - N

 

Limitation

[Lucius]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Spell casting

 

C - A - S - T - I - N - G

 

Casting

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Feeding the palindromedary honey from a spelling bee hive

[Markdoc]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

I suppose you could take the RSR Limitation more than once.

 

Is that strictly legal' date=' though? I prefer to stick to the rules when at all feasible (or at the very least, be aware that I am breaking the rules).[/quote']

 

I don't see any rules forbidding it. I'm not sure requiring multiple skill rolls is a good idea' date=' though, especially with high AP penalties. The chance of successfully using the power can get pretty low.[/quote']

 

The rules allow you to use either one of two skill rolls for 1/4 less than the base limitation. Rather than taking RSR twice (which I wouldn't allow) take "Requires 2 skill rolls" for 1/4 more than the base limitation. So, for example, if you have a basic casting roll for spells, require - in addition - a "KS: Chronomancy roll" or a "KS: Arcanomancy roll" for more advanced schools.

 

This does two things:

1. It makes this kind of magic more difficult

2. It restricts it pretty much to specialists, since you are going to want to buy those extra skill levels up to a reasonable height, as well as your base casting roll.

 

Since these spells are unlikely to be the characters' adventuring mainstay, requiring two rolls is probably not going to be too cumbersome: we've actually used a similar system in the past, without problems.

 

cheers, Mark

cheers, Mark

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

You could also make the "Energy Cost" of casting a spell from one of these advanced colleges a bit more taxing on the castor. For example, a Chronomancy spell takes a few hours of lifespan away from the castor. Chaos spells cause unpredictable havock to the surrounding area (which takes place at an unspecified time after the casting...could be 5 minutes later or could be 5 decades later, and the effects are always unpredictable. Could rain puppies, or ravenous Razortoothed vorpal bunnies) Arcanomancy spells take the Quintessential Mana away from the surrounding area temporarily...however cast too many Arcanomancy spells in an area and it will become a Dead Zone...completely devoid of Mana to the point that it can't even support the most basic of life forms.

 

All of these special limitations would be a Side Effect of some form or other. I would only use this method of the Special Arcana are extraordinarily more powerful than the Normal Arcana...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

You could also make the "Energy Cost" of casting a spell from one of these advanced colleges a bit more taxing on the castor. For example, a Chronomancy spell takes a few hours of lifespan away from the castor. Chaos spells cause unpredictable havock to the surrounding area (which takes place at an unspecified time after the casting...could be 5 minutes later or could be 5 decades later, and the effects are always unpredictable. Could rain puppies, or ravenous Razortoothed vorpal bunnies) Arcanomancy spells take the Quintessential Mana away from the surrounding area temporarily...however cast too many Arcanomancy spells in an area and it will become a Dead Zone...completely devoid of Mana to the point that it can't even support the most basic of life forms.

 

All of these special limitations would be a Side Effect of some form or other. I would only use this method of the Special Arcana are extraordinarily more powerful than the Normal Arcana...

 

Requiring the spells to have Side Effects works, but effects that severe would again put them in the 'things no player would ever choose' category regardless of their benefits. Besides that, they'd be too dangerous to teach ... students would die of old age before they even got close to competency (the setting has no crazy-longlived-races, so that buffer is out), and Arcanomancy and Chaos would be banned for simply being too dangerous. As the setting sits, only Black Magic and the Assassin's Arts are illegal , and that's based more on superstition and reputation than fact (Black Magic is not inherently more dangerous or evil than any other Arcana, but most of the time you're a bad apple in the first place if you pick it up ... and, well, Assassin's Arts, do the math ).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Basic/Expert Spellcasting

 

Since these spells are unlikely to be the characters' adventuring mainstay, requiring two rolls is probably not going to be too cumbersome: we've actually used a similar system in the past, without problems.

 

Actually, they probably would be ... they likely wouldn't have the time to spare to learn anything else due to the dedication involved, and I'm intending for multiple-arcana casters to be quite rare (represented mechanically by requiring a separate Power skill for each school).