Uncanny Valley

[Steve]

When something looks like a human but doesn't quite pull it off, humans looking at it will get a 'creepy' vibe. There is the sense that "something isn't right." This could be a vampire that forgets to breathe and blink, a moving Chucky-type doll, an android that has a perfectly symmetrical face, or an alien shapeshifter. I understand this would be a form of Distinctive Features, but some people react more strongly than others. Is there a way to model DF so that some people are majorly creeped out and others not as much?

 

Would some types of Uncanny Valley rate a PRE boost for fear effects only, or is it more of a Striking Appearance?

[Tasha]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

It's a form of Striking appearance + Distinctive Features.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

I'd think it'd just be a Distinctive Feature. 'Some people more creeped out than others' would probably depend on the observer's PRE, the observed's PRE, Psych Lims, and general RP.

[RexMundi]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Yeah Distinctive Feature.....with the Uncanny Valley descriptive, defined.

 

~Rex

[Steve]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Would the Uncanny Valley effect be easily concealable or concealable with more effort like Disguise or Acting? I'm thinking it is more difficult to conceal in general. That vampire or android has to do something more than just blinking more frequently or pretending to breathe.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Would the Uncanny Valley effect be easily concealable or concealable with more effort like Disguise or Acting? I'm thinking it is more difficult to conceal in general. That vampire or android has to do something more than just blinking more frequently or pretending to breathe.

 

Easily concealable, since all they really have to do is not be seen. 'Creepy Face Unblinking Android' can just throw on a pair of Foster Grants. 'Not Breathing Vampire' can just put on a sweatshirt or jacket so you couldn't tell if his chest was rising or falling. I suppose it would matter on the exact nature of their unnatural activities, though.

[Tasha]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

The Reason that I grouped it was striking Features was that you Can use it as a positive thing(ie use it in Pre Attacks). So you have the Striking features so you can use it to purposely creep people out. That "suddenly you realize that there is something really wrong with Hank" when Hank the Vampire stops breathing, blinking or even moving some. All things that normal living breathing people do automatically.

[RexMundi]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Yeah there could definitely be a striking appearance use for it as well.

 

~Rex

[phoenix240]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

When something looks like a human but doesn't quite pull it off, humans looking at it will get a 'creepy' vibe. There is the sense that "something isn't right." This could be a vampire that forgets to breathe and blink, a moving Chucky-type doll, an android that has a perfectly symmetrical face, or an alien shapeshifter. I understand this would be a form of Distinctive Features, but some people react more strongly than others. Is there a way to model DF so that some people are majorly creeped out and others not as much?

 

Would some types of Uncanny Valley rate a PRE boost for fear effects only, or is it more of a Striking Appearance?

 

 

It really could be anything of those things depending on the nature of the feature/appearance. If its generally going to be a negative its probably a distinctive feature, if it can be positive Striking Features (Com if you're still using it). It's up to the player and GM to work out how they want it to impact the character and the setting. It could be represented several ways even particularly if its major aspect of the character. Level of conceal-ability in the case of a Disadvantage would vary too but I'd think it would usually be Easy to conceal at most. But keep in mind even efforts to conceal a DF can seem odd in and of themselves. "Ever notice Susan never takes off her sunglasses, even at night?" Not as disturbing as her cold, doll like unblinking eyes, of course, but a canny observer might notice.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

If I made it a separate Complication at all (and I say that because it's possible it might fit better wrapped into other Complications such as Physical or Social Complications) I'd call it a Distinctive Feature that is only detectable by "unusual senses", only the "unusual senses" in this case can be covered by things like Deduction or a difficult Per roll or whatever (with rolls that are close giving you a strange intuitive uneasiness). In a way it is like a category BELOW "Easily Concealable" in that you normally don't have to conceal it at all for it to go unnoticed (instead other people have to be lucky, very observant, or actively looking for it). Certainly positive benefits such as Striking Appearance or otherwise limited Presence could be added to the character as well.

[Steve]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

That's a good point. Sometimes it isn't something noticeable on a conscious level that can be seen casually, just feels 'off' somehow. You know something's wrong with Mary, but you don't exactly know why. Mary would appear to be nothing more than a beautiful woman if seen in a photograph, but she's a fembot. In person, her mannerisms aren't quite right, but the weirdness strikes on a subliminal level.

 

On the other hand, some people might have a fetish towards vampires or near-human aliens. Tasha's suggestion of Striking Appearance works there too. It is a positive PRE effect, but not towards creepiness.

[phoenix240]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

That's a good point. Sometimes it isn't something noticeable on a conscious level that can be seen casually, just feels 'off' somehow. You know something's wrong with Mary, but you don't exactly know why. Mary would appear to be nothing more than a beautiful woman if seen in a photograph, but she's a fembot. In person, her mannerisms aren't quite right, but the weirdness strikes on a subliminal level.

 

On the other hand, some people might have a fetish towards vampires or near-human aliens. Tasha's suggestion of Striking Appearance works there too. It is a positive PRE effect, but not towards creepiness.

 

I'd say it would depend on how often its intended to come up. For example someone having a Vampire fetish might be rare eough that any bonus a Vampire gets from it is the effect of the Target's psychology (Disad or otherwise) not an ability the character has. Like some people have an attraction to Asians or Blonds but generally those types of characters don't have to get Striking Appearance or Pre bonuses unless there's "something" about them that makes it stand out more or more provocative (or the as a metagame way to say "I want this to come up allot to my character's benefit").

[Steve]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Vampires or fembots might be those cases where some will be creeped out and some will be drawn in. A Striking Appearance of 'Uncanny Valley' at the 2-point level could have multiple effects depending on the individual observer. Most would find Mary the Fembot with her soulless dark eyes disturbing, but some would find her attractive.

 

On the other hand, some uncanny valley denizens like zombies or shapeshifting aliens may only have the creepy version of Striking Appearance.

[Tasha]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

That's a good point. Sometimes it isn't something noticeable on a conscious level that can be seen casually, just feels 'off' somehow. You know something's wrong with Mary, but you don't exactly know why. Mary would appear to be nothing more than a beautiful woman if seen in a photograph, but she's a fembot. In person, her mannerisms aren't quite right, but the weirdness strikes on a subliminal level.

 

On the other hand, some people might have a fetish towards vampires or near-human aliens. Tasha's suggestion of Striking Appearance works there too. It is a positive PRE effect, but not towards creepiness.

 

Remember that Striking Appearance is for any Appearance that either causes Fear, Intimidation, Lust etc. I was actually talking about being fearful and creeped out by the Vampire who stops "Playing at being human" by going still as a dead person. It's really the same with Bots, Animated graphics, disguises that use extensive latex (or any other substance that doesn't move properly). It's a real problem for anything that is trying to pass itself off as human that doesn't have the facial muscles or understand how we are almost always moving in some small way (ie breathing, moving the eyes, blinking, changing expressions, changing position/posture). Any fetish would be for people attracted to dead bodies, because that's what the Uncanny Valley really is. Our perceiving something that looks human, that moves, but our instincts tell us it's dead like a corpse. That's why it creeps us out.

[Steve]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Could the Uncanny Valley effect come into play when looking at near-human aliens or fantasy races like elves? To a human, they could look 99% Human, but they aren't. Maybe their unconscious facial movements and body language aren't 'right' somehow. For example, an elf could have perfectly symmetrical facial features and flawless skin. Could that trigger the Uncanny Valley reaction? An elf isn't a corpse, but it isn't human either.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Could the Uncanny Valley effect come into play when looking at near-human aliens or fantasy races like elves? To a human' date=' they could look 99% Human, but they aren't. Maybe their unconscious facial movements and body language aren't 'right' somehow. For example, an elf could have perfectly symmetrical facial features and flawless skin. Could that trigger the Uncanny Valley reaction? An elf isn't a corpse, but it isn't human either.[/quote']

 

Theoretically. Depends on the game/world. I would personally think that they are too far off the human baseline to invoke the Uncanny Valley with the ears, shortness, and other potential features (eye and hair color are often not ones you find in the real world outside of a bottle), but other folks may see otherwise.

[phoenix240]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Could the Uncanny Valley effect come into play when looking at near-human aliens or fantasy races like elves? To a human' date=' they could look 99% Human, but they aren't. Maybe their unconscious facial movements and body language aren't 'right' somehow. For example, an elf could have perfectly symmetrical facial features and flawless skin. Could that trigger the Uncanny Valley reaction? An elf isn't a corpse, but it isn't human either.[/quote']

 

I'd say it might depending on the history of the game world and their interaction with humans. Elves and other creatures have been described in literature as having "unearthly chilling beauty" and being "too perfect".

[sinanju]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

Any fetish would be for people attracted to dead bodies' date=' because that's what the Uncanny Valley really is. Our perceiving something that looks human, that moves, but our instincts tell us it's dead like a corpse. That's why it creeps us out.[/quote']

 

I disagree. That's party of it, yes. But another part is that someone who doesn't look "right" may be suffering from either a disease (probably something chronic or which resulted in long-term changes in appearance) or a genetic malady affected his/her appearance--and that's another good reason for normal, healthy people to find them unappealing. You want to stay away from someone who is susceptible to such diseases or who may pass along such a genetic trait to your potential offspring.

[phoenix240]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

I disagree. That's party of it' date=' yes. But another part is that someone who doesn't look "right" may be suffering from either a disease (probably something chronic or which resulted in long-term changes in appearance) or a genetic malady affected his/her appearance--and that's another good reason for normal, healthy people to find them unappealing. You want to stay away from someone who is susceptible to such diseases or who may pass along such a genetic trait to your potential offspring.[/quote']

 

Yep, some degree of "paranoia" is a survival trait. Its usually better to assume the worst incorrectly than assume everything is fine and be wrong. The Uncanny Valley effect is that ingrained instinct showing through.

[Christopher]

Re: Uncanny Valley

 

When something looks like a human but doesn't quite pull it off, humans looking at it will get a 'creepy' vibe. There is the sense that "something isn't right." This could be a vampire that forgets to breathe and blink, a moving Chucky-type doll, an android that has a perfectly symmetrical face, or an alien shapeshifter. I understand this would be a form of Distinctive Features, but some people react more strongly than others. Is there a way to model DF so that some people are majorly creeped out and others not as much?

 

Would some types of Uncanny Valley rate a PRE boost for fear effects only, or is it more of a Striking Appearance?

It depends if you want it to have a Positive Effect most of the time. There is nothing wrong in deriving a Bonus from a Disad sometimes (see the positive effects of a Psych Complication regarding Midn Controll).

But when he starts to use it regulary to cow people, then it becomes a Power/Striking Appereance with the Difinition of being Creepy/Fearfull.

 

Would the Uncanny Valley effect be easily concealable or concealable with more effort like Disguise or Acting? I'm thinking it is more difficult to conceal in general. That vampire or android has to do something more than just blinking more frequently or pretending to breathe.

I think you overestimate the visibility here. I doubt the average people would notice that someone does not Blinks or Breathes just by talking to him. Right after strenous activity it might be noticeable (high Value Penalty for hard to percieve) and he can always just hide it with a rather simple Acting Roll (Easy to Conceal). Might not even be worth anything as a Distinctive Feature.

 

If this work on the unconcious level I would make:

Creepy Aura, Difficulty to Conceal (there might be a way to hide the Aura; otherwise it is not Concealable), Detectable by Common Senses (because everyone can detect it).

Creepy Aura, Striking Appereance +2/+2d6, Only to Creep people out, Only People affected by Creepy Aura Complciation.

 

Visibility and Concealability always mean the effective means someone has to take to Notice the Feature and the effective Difficulty in hiding it. That is why even "Totally Deformed Mutant" (normally always noticed, inconcealable, mayor reaction) becomes low in value (easy to conceal) when it is only a Alternate Form and not all other Forms share it - because it effectively is an very easy thing to hide it.