altamaros Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Hello Herodom. One of my players wants a duplicating character (why not; i don't like them since they tend to slow combat but whatever). but something in my words worried him: "if your duplicate is killed then you'll lose it forever; you will have to pay XPs to get a new one" as it is written in the holy Big Black Book. So he came with that idea : Duplication (250 pts duplicate) RC/AC : 50 pts Healing 1D6 (2 act. pts) to Duplication + 0 END +1/2 + Persistent +1/2 - self only -1/2 - extra time (one turn): -1 RC : 8 AC : 20 so, he says, "even if my duplicate is killed, i can have a new one in 5 minutes" Would you allow this construct ? (i know i'm the GM but there i think the idea is interesting) Your opinion, herodom ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 In theory, I guess it's OK. (Kinda strange, but OK) His math is wrong, though. 1d6 healing can "heal" a maximum of 12 active points of duplication. To fix his dead duplicate (50 active points), he needs to buy 4 1/2d6, for a total of 90 active or 45 real points. He'd be better off buying regeneration Seriously though, if it really worries him, suggest he buys regeneration from the dead for his duplicate (instead of for the power), as long as it fits the special effect. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Markdoc Seriously though, if it really worries him, suggest he buys regeneration from the dead for his duplicate (instead of for the power), as long as it fits the special effect. My thought exactly. You don't lose the points when you lose a duplicate. They are still there, they just aren't worth anything anymore. So you can't heal the points back anyway. So I see two ways around it. 1- Buy regeneration from death on the duplicate. 2- Buy multiple duplicates with the understanding that only one can be active at a time. For the same 20 points as he was going to spend on healing he can have 16 duplicates. And if he loses all 16 of them, then for five more points he can have another 16. And frankly if he loses duplicates at that rate he's just being careless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Ressurection for the duplicate is the appropriate solution. I would allow him to buy it as a naked adder with the limitations "extra-time", and "original must reactivate duplication power" How does the duplicate react when it sees its own corpse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 The best way would be not to buy regeneration on the duplicate, but on the base form. That way the duplicate will get it for free and you don't have to pay the altered duplicate penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 And include the "only when duplicated" limitation? I would let him buy regeneration with extra time (say, 1 BODY per hour) so it takes a day to restore the duplicate. I would also add a focus or circumstance limitation to it so he is required to recover the corpse and "recombine" it (though technically there is no recombination). He could also buy the regeneration as limited ot "resurrection only" As a matter of fact, Extra Limbs and Resurrection are HEALING adders. He himself could buy "Healing, 8d6, Extra Time - 1 Day, only usable on duplicates, resurrection" Special Effect :: Recombining with the Duplicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Farkling And include the "only when duplicated" limitation? If I were worried about losing a duplicate, shouldn't I be just as worried about losing my main character? After all, if it's a true duplicate, whatever killed the duplicate would be just as capable of killing the original... If I want to have something that I don't really care if it gets waxed, I would typically choose summon. For a duplicate, assuming I've built in a reasonable amount of defense in the first place, duplicate death shouldn't be any more likely than main character death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Hmmm......perhaps... Summon Alternate Self Except that violates the "2 models" rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 All right, thanks everyone Actually the player agreed with the "regeneration from death " solution. and then, i understood what he had in mind : He plans to use his duplicates as scouts (which is IMHO would me more appropriate for summoned beings but he doesn't seem to trust me about having control of "his" characters ) in dangerous areas. Only a little concern from the GM (me): Resurrection => final death condition is "at least one duplicate must be still alive to allow resurrection" (i.e. if all the duplicates are dead at a moment, then they're dead for good). i think it's fair as long as the PC has 1 to 4 duplicates but when it comes to 8 duplicates ... i gonna suggest him to take "at least half of the duplicates must be alive ..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 If he wanted to go the summon route, he could make them Slavishly Loyal, at which point you might as well let him maintain control of them since they'll do anything he says anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Gah! Can we -please- call a moratorium on "Summon Self, Slavishly Loyal" suggestions? Good grief! -AA (My apologies, but I had to get that out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Originally posted by CrosshairCollie If he wanted to go the summon route, he could make them Slavishly Loyal, at which point you might as well let him maintain control of them since they'll do anything he says anyway. Actually the player doesn't trust any GM at all and is uneasy at letting the GM have control of a part of him. why : the player is actually a kind guy and a good thinker; unfortunately he has nothing of a quick thinker; thus he panics completly at the first action scene and put himself into troubles almost automatically. the other GMs know that and are generally gentle with him except that they can't save his butt all the time (it's the game after all). As a result, he developed a very "unsecure" style of play and the deep conviction that GMs are evil creatures whom only joy in life is to tear his characters apart (i'm barely joking) That's precisely because he dies so often ( i myself shamefully saved his butt at 7th Sea) that another player suggests him this idea. ("holoduke" style or "holo-arnold" for those who liked "Total Recall"). the base idea in the group is "anything that keeps him from the action scene" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 ugh! Just say no and let him take his risks like everyone else. I'd tell him to spend the same number of points on luck and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Heh... Make him buy the Healing power with resurrection for the mainline character so he hasw to actually go resurrect5 his destroyed duplicates. Then he can choose between lost points and danger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 hhhmmm.. new character idea, well not new really, but its new for me, horde of unkillable duplicates, well, you can kill them, but they just keep coming back... so full LS, some major Regen, and give them a pistol, they're a normal human except that they won't die, and can duplicate over and over, and have some pistols, after a while, even the weakest blaster will start to be annoying, sure the 6d6, 8d6, or 12d6 or other agent level blaster won't do much, but when 20 people in a single phase can fire all at one target..... thnaks got another thing to try against my players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSword Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Re: hhhmmm.. Originally posted by Insaniac99 new character idea, well not new really, but its new for me, horde of unkillable duplicates, well, you can kill them, but they just keep coming back... so full LS, some major Regen, and give them a pistol, they're a normal human except that they won't die, and can duplicate over and over, and have some pistols, after a while, even the weakest blaster will start to be annoying, sure the 6d6, 8d6, or 12d6 or other agent level blaster won't do much, but when 20 people in a single phase can fire all at one target..... thnaks got another thing to try against my players! Add PS:Lawyer and it sounds like something for Horror Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Re: hhhmmm.. Originally posted by Insaniac99 thnaks got another thing to try against my players! Apparently i will be soon responsible of another case of cruelty against innocent players ... (sigh) sometimes, it's good to be me I think i gonna talk with this player. a mentalist would probably be more his style of play (stay hidden, use ego attacks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 I've seen a few duplication concepts based on 'nickel and dime' damage. One was a horde of duplicates with low OCV, DCV, but penetrating STR and levels with co-ordinated attacks. I think Dave Mattingly first described "One Thousand Screaming Chinamen" to me. They all have a 2D6 sonic NND attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 The player definitely sounds like he needs a virtually unkillable character. Regeneration from death or invisible long range sniping are probably good ideas for this player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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