Champions 1st edition

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Those weren't published by Hero Games. Therefore not "official". The comics were created by a seporate company called Hero Comics (which had no ties to Hero Games other than a name and the same group of friends) That company is currently know as Heroic Comics.

 

Twenty five years ago, I bought the original Champions mini-series published by Eclipse and then the first 20 or so issues published by Heroic. I am amazed that this line is still being published all these years later.

 

I thought there was a little more of a tie to the game than just the characters' names, though. Didn't the writer/publisher Dennis Mallonnee also author The Coriolis Effect adventure for 3e Champions?

 

There's an interview with him at this link in which he discusses his Champions comics at length (though I didn't see a mention of Coriolis Effect):

 

http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/?p=5421

[MisterVimes]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Twenty five years ago' date=' I bought the original [i']Champions[/i] mini-series published by Eclipse and then the first 20 or so issues published by Heroic. I am amazed that this line is still being published all these years later.

 

I thought there was a little more of a tie to the game than just the characters' names, though. Didn't the writer/publisher Dennis Mallonnee also author The Coriolis Effect adventure for 3e Champions?

 

There's an interview with him at this link in which he discusses his Champions comics at length (though I didn't see a mention of Coriolis Effect):

 

http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/?p=5421

 

"The Great Supervillain Contest" and "Enemies III" according to RPG.net, but "Coriolis Effect" does have his name on the cover.

[MisterVimes]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Comic Book Legends Revealed #245 has a detailed outline of Mallonee/HERO Games vs Marvel Comics over the name "Champions"

 

And here is the meat of the issue. Set the wayback machine for 2004 and read the words of Steve Long and Dennis Mallonee. Character Copyrights and The Old Hero Games

[MisterVimes]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

First up: Flare (direct transcript of character sheet) -- I'll work on the formatting when I have a chance.

 

Name: Flare (inspired by the character created by Stacy Laurence)

Real Name: Teresa ("Terri") Feran

 

VAL___CHAR___Cost

25___STR___15

23___DEX___39

23___CON___26

10___BODY___0

15___INT___5

13___EGO___6

20___PRE___10

20___COM___5

15___PD___10

20___ED___15

5___SPD___17

10___REC___0

80___END___17

40___STUN___5

 

Cost______Powers___________________________End

55______Multipower - 55pt pool______

4___u___9d6 Light Energy Blast_____________________9

4___u___4 1/2d6 Flash________________________9

4___u___3d6 Individual Flash + 2d6 Attack vs Limited (Flash) Defense______9

10___m___25" Flight________________________5

5______10 ED vs Light Based Attacks______

15______50% Damage Resistance______

7______10 pts Ego Defense______

5______5 pts Flash Defense______

10______UV Vision______

10______2d6 Luck______

4______Speaks German Fluently w/literacy

 

100+______Disadvantages

5______1d6 Unluck

5______1d6 Stun vs Anti-Photonic Energy

30______2x Stun vs Edged Weapons

20______Code vs Killing

15______Likes getting attention

8______Has a crush on Giant

5______Afraid of knives

3______Sensitive about her age

3______Obsessed with finding a cure for rapid aging

5______Ages at twice the normal rate

30______Hunted < 11 by DEMON

25______Hunted < 11 by Poinsettia

13______Hunted < 8 by Viper

15______Secret Identity

21______Experience Spent

 

All trademarks and copyrights are owned by their respective owners. Every entry is labelled as to its source and state that all of those copyrights, trademarks, etc. are used without authorization and is not intended to challenge any trademark or copyright.

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

And here is the meat of the issue. Set the wayback machine for 2004 and read the words of Steve Long and Dennis Mallonee. Character Copyrights and The Old Hero Games

 

Thanks very much for posting this link, MisterVimes. I thought this old forum thread was very interesting. Though at the end Steve Long and Dennis Mallonee chime in by saying their not going to discuss IP ownership in a public forum like that.

[MisterVimes]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Thanks very much for posting this link' date=' MisterVimes. I thought this old forum thread was very interesting. Though at the end Steve Long and Dennis Mallonee chime in by saying their not going to discuss IP ownership in a public forum like that.[/quote']

 

We old timers have a vague recollection of such events

[starblaze]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

"ACROBATICS: This skill gives the character the ability to perform rolls, tumbles, flips, etc. like a circus acrobat. A character may perform Acrobatics on a roll of 9+(DEX/5) or less for 10 pts. The character gets +1 to his Acrobatics Roll for every +2 pts. A successful Acrobatics Roll will allow a character to land on his feet after being Knocked Back so that the character does not take any damage from impacting against the floor. Acrobatics takes a 1/2 move to perform. A successful Acrobatics Roll adds +2 to a character's DCV. A character may not add the +2 DCV from Acrobatics to the DCV bonus from doing a Dodge Maneuver.

 

Cost: 10 pts. Base Rolls 9+(DEX/5), +1 per 2 pts." - Page 10, Champions (1st Edition)

 

Yeah, that is a lot more powerful

[Egyptoid]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

eh voila

[Dragonfly]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Howdy fellas!

 

A couple of years ago I ran a Classic Champions campaign, set in the 1980s. I basically ran The VIPER's Nest, weaving in various villain origins (Ogre, Mechanon, Arrowhead) and replaced The Champions with the PC group.

 

Here is the entire campaign write-up, with pictures no less. :-)

 

http://classic-champions.blogspot.com/

 

Best,

 

Dragonfly

[assault]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Very cool!

 

Personally, I'd do what I suggested very early in the thread and build my world around the blurb text in Escape from Stonghold, the characters written up in the original rules, and perhaps the entry for Genocide in Enemies.

 

I'd explain UNTIL being able to run around in the US in terms of the crisis caused by the emergence of supervillains. Mechanon alone could justify that. Essentially, the US would have fallen without UNTIL's assistance, and UNTIL is staying in place until SAT is able to replace them. (I probably wouldn't use PRIMUS initially).

 

Major Martinez probably made his reputation leading the opposition to a supervillain led takeover of Paraguay, before being recruited to lead UNTIL's paramilitary force.

 

VIPER would have been founded by a probably renamed version of Dr Lirby Koo, who is, of course, dead until proven otherwise.

 

Doctor Destroyer probably wouldn't be all that big of a deal, but of course it was his Terror Inc imitators who tried to take over Paraguay.

 

Shrinker and Avar-7 are well known superheroes. Thunder and Lightning probably haven't started their "heroic" careers yet.

[Dragonfly]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Very cool!

 

Personally, I'd do what I suggested very early in the thread and build my world around the blurb text in Escape from Stonghold, the characters written up in the original rules, and perhaps the entry for Genocide in Enemies.

 

I'd explain UNTIL being able to run around in the US in terms of the crisis caused by the emergence of supervillains. Mechanon alone could justify that. Essentially, the US would have fallen without UNTIL's assistance, and UNTIL is staying in place until SAT is able to replace them. (I probably wouldn't use PRIMUS initially).

 

Major Martinez probably made his reputation leading the opposition to a supervillain led takeover of Paraguay, before being recruited to lead UNTIL's paramilitary force.

 

VIPER would have been founded by a probably renamed version of Dr Lirby Koo, who is, of course, dead until proven otherwise.

 

Doctor Destroyer probably wouldn't be all that big of a deal, but of course it was his Terror Inc imitators who tried to take over Paraguay.

 

Shrinker and Avar-7 are well known superheroes. Thunder and Lightning probably haven't started their "heroic" careers yet.

 

These are all awesome ideas! I'd probably steal at least half of them if I were still running that Classic Champions campaign. :-)

 

In my campaign Lirby Koo was working with VIPER, but only to get revenge on UNTIL for killing his only son in a raid on one of his bases back in the day.

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

[Egyptoid]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

First Edition Feel, Fifth Edition Rules

[Cassandra]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

The Champions comic book series began with a 6 issue mini-series featuring Marksman, Rose, Flare, Icestar, and Giant. The villains were Demon. Overall it was disappointing.

 

The second series promised us a group of superheroes without ancient gods, and then self destructed when they introduced ancient gods.

 

It did have a number of vitures. In every pre-Mount Olympus issue they had the RPG stats for characters in that issue.

 

Icicle and Sparkplug (good version of Poinsettia) joined the team.

 

Mechanon showed up.

 

Pulsar and Icicle had a duel.

 

Did anyone else find the Icestar solo book disturbing?

[Zen Archer]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Did anyone else find the Icestar solo book disturbing?

 

I found the Champions comics I read at the time disturbing in general.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Did anyone else find the Icestar solo book disturbing?

 

The Champions comics from Heroic always seemed like they wanted to be more risque than what they were, which is kind of a shame. I've always wanted to read about the superheroic adventures of the various Champions Universe characters (particularly 1st - 4th ed), particularly the Champions, Guardians & Protectors.

[Tasha]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

The Champions comic book series began with a 6 issue mini-series featuring Marksman, Rose, Flare, Icestar, and Giant. The villains were Demon. Overall it was disappointing.

 

The second series promised us a group of superheroes without ancient gods, and then self destructed when they introduced ancient gods.

 

It did have a number of vitures. In every pre-Mount Olympus issue they had the RPG stats for characters in that issue.

 

Icicle and Sparkplug (good version of Poinsettia) joined the team.

 

Mechanon showed up.

 

Pulsar and Icicle had a duel.

 

Did anyone else find the Icestar solo book disturbing?

 

The Champions Comic book series was all bad. Poor story, bad art, dated comic style. The only thing it had going for it was featuring characters I recognized from 1st/2nd ed Champions (Because 1st and 2nd are basically the same game). I enjoyed the character writeups at the end of the books. It was fanfiction without all of the cheesy sex. It was a glimpse of Dennis' intrepretation of some of the characters that appeared in original campaign.

 

I did enjoy using the Alternate Semi-retired version of The Marksman in Champions New Millennium. There are some of the most interesting versions of classic Champions Heroes and Villains in CNM. It was also nice to see an Official version of The Marksman appear in a Champions Product.

[Cassandra]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

This is why I like Big Bang Comics.

[MisterVimes]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

This is why I like Big Bang Comics.

 

Me too.

[Cassandra]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

From Champions came Espionage, then Western Hero, Star Hero, Super-Agents, and Justice Incorporated. This lead to a number of differences in the various genre rules that were finally resolved in the 5th Edition.

 

One thing that bothered me about the supplements were that super villains were built on such high point numbers. If the heroes were going to start on 250 points they should have some of the villains they could take on one to one. Masterminds could have a so called "villain bonus" in the disadvantages but it seemed to encourage to Players to built heroes overloaded with disadvantages.

[assault]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

There's always going to be an issue as to what power level published adventures should be oriented towards.

 

PCs in any campaign that continues for a while will quickly outgrow starting level villains. On the other hand, villains they can handle will overwhelm starting level heroes.

[esampson]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

From Champions came Espionage' date=' then Western Hero, Star Hero, Super-Agents, and Justice Incorporated. This lead to a number of differences in the various genre rules that were finally resolved in the 5th Edition.[/quote']

 

Fantasy Hero came out after Espionage. I've never even heard of Western Hero (which doesn't rule it out but it must have been extremely unsuccessful). Espionage was later updated into Danger International. I forget where Justice Inc. sits in the list of releases but it was pretty early, actually. After Espionage but possibly before Fantasy Hero.

 

The integration of the different genres into a single setting was done in the 4th edition, however, if memory serves.

 

One thing that bothered me about the supplements were that super villains were built on such high point numbers. If the heroes were going to start on 250 points they should have some of the villains they could take on one to one. Masterminds could have a so called "villain bonus" in the disadvantages but it seemed to encourage to Players to built heroes overloaded with disadvantages.

I was never crazy about the really high point totals that some villains were built on but I think in many cases those were caused by "non-optimal" designs. (Then again, when you could just round things out with a villain bonus you didn't really need to optimize your design). On the other hand I spent plenty of time building "balanced" villains (as in point balanced) before I realized that A) a lot of the disadvantages that would normally be used on a character wouldn't really be applicable to the villains (Secret Identities which didn't really come into play since the villains were almost always the instigators of the fights, Hunteds didn't just randomly show up but were part of the storyline, etc.) and after their very first adventure the heroes had their own 'bonus' in the form of XP.

[Armitage]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

Did anyone else find the Icestar solo book disturbing?

 

You mean the Icicle solo book? She, Flare, and Marksman are the only characters who got solo books. Yes, her blatantly more than familial affection for her brother Icestar is disturbing.

Then, there's also the relationship between Lady Arcane and her aunt, the Black Enchantress. In Donna's favor, the relationship started before she knew who Andrea really was, and Andrea is just twisted. She's currently a magical "hero" who battles supernatural threats because she doesn't want competition when she eventually takes over the Earth herself.

 

There was one quite amusing character development revealed a couple years ago.

 

This woman is named Raven Gold.

 

She's a Robin Hood-esque super-thief who only steals from criminals. The first time she appeared, she was working for the Black Enchantress in exchange for some potions that would relieve an unrevealed "condition". Later, she appeared working for some scientists who were providing high-tech treatment for the same "condition".

 

It turns out that she's not a real person. She's an alternate personality created by a magic shapeshifting spell retconned as happening off panel way back at the end of the original Champions mini-series. "Someone" uncontrollably changes into Raven Gold at random intervals. "This person" doesn't know about Raven Gold; they just know that they're suffering blackouts and losing time, sometimes months at a stretch. Raven Gold, on the other hand, knows about "the other person" and is actively trying to find a way to prevent ever changing back.

 

Who is this mysterious person who changes into Raven Gold?

 

 

 

At the end of the mini-series, Foxbat stumbled into the holding cell where DEMON was holding all of the women they had taken hostage. He managed to convince a Morbane to cast a spell to turn him into a woman so he could hide among the prisoners and make his escape from the Champions. Unfortunately, the Morbane was significantly more powerful than Foxbat realized. In game terms, the spell wasn't just a Body Transform; it was a Body, Mind, and Spirit Transform and female Foxbat became an independent personality with her own physical form.

.

[Cassandra]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

At least a villain I can respect

[Tasha]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

From Champions came Espionage, then Western Hero, Star Hero, Super-Agents, and Justice Incorporated. This lead to a number of differences in the various genre rules that were finally resolved in the 5th Edition.

 

One thing that bothered me about the supplements were that super villains were built on such high point numbers. If the heroes were going to start on 250 points they should have some of the villains they could take on one to one. Masterminds could have a so called "villain bonus" in the disadvantages but it seemed to encourage to Players to built heroes overloaded with disadvantages.

 

Yeah, It was Champions 1st edition, Espionage, Justice Inc, Champions II, Champions III,(enemies I, II, III, and Org book 1 and 2) Golden Age Champions (1st ed).

Then Danger International (AKA Espionage 2nd ed), Fantasy Hero, Champions 3rd edition, Ninja Hero, Robot Warriors, Strike Force.

Then 4th Edition Champions which was the first edition that was a "Universal Ruleset"(AKA The ICE years)(including GMing and RP stuff from the Strike Force Book). Fantasy Hero 2nd Edition, Star Hero, Western Hero, Cyber Hero, Horror Hero etc.

Then Champions New Millennium with Fuzion. (Much griping and whining heard, 4th edition writeups of CNM characters available on new Hero Games Website)

5th edition project starts with Steve Long as author.

Then Cybergames Fiasco,

DOJ buys Hero Games.

Edited version of 5th Ed rules Ship under the "New" Hero Games with Steve Long as author and visible head of company.

 

That's the history, pretty close mostly because I don't have time to actually put my HS books in order of Publication Date.

 

4th edition Champions had a section in the sourcebook that talked about powerlevels. It was really the first time that Hero officially came out and gave people a powerlevel to play at. Before that, you had to fake it based on the few Heroes in the books and the many Villains in the core books and Villains books. The Villains were pretty much more powerful than the heroes, so it was confusing to new players.

[assault]

Re: Champions 1st edition

 

2e and 3e had character design guidelines that went some way to setting default power levels.

 

There were survey results in a copy of Adventurers Club that indicated the most common power levels people were playing at.

 

Using those as guidelines worked pretty well.

 

Mind you, this is after the first games I played in, where everybody else was munchkinising horribly, forcing me to follow suit. It was so ridiculous that one player refused to show his character sheet to a prospective GM, because that GM was also playing with other GMs in the group, and the first player didn't want everybody else to know how he was building his characters. Unsurprisingly, the prospective GM withdrew his offer to GM....

 

Fortunately, all this idiocy didn't put me off the game.