Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

[McCoy]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

According to Wikipedia (yeah' date=' yeah), 3-H (I don't know how to do the superscript here) undergoes that kind of decay to Helium, but 4-H (not the club!) just spits out a Neutron to become 3-H. Is it possible that 4-H has more than one kind of decay?[/quote']

{sup}3{/sup}H (change {} to []) and ⁴H are unstable isotopes, I had never heard about ⁴H before this. Their claim is that ⁴H decays to ⁴He, which is a stable isotope.

 

Again, if this process makes ³H which decays to ³He, could be financially lucrative, ³He can be used in regular hot fusion (theoretically). I'll wait for someone to replicate their work before investing.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

{sup}3{/sup}H (change {} to []) and ⁴H are unstable isotopes' date=' I had never heard about [sUP']4[/sUP]H before this. Their claim is that ⁴H decays to ⁴He, which is a stable isotope.

 

Again, if this process makes ³H which decays to ³He, could be financially lucrative, ³He can be used in regular hot fusion (theoretically). I'll wait for someone to replicate their work before investing.

 

Thanks for the info on superscripting, McCoy. The Wikipedia article on isotopes of Hydrogen indicates that isotopes up to ⁷H have been found, and that it is ³H that undergoes Beta decay to become ³He (12.3 yr half-life), and instead that ⁴H undegoes Neutron decay ((1.39 ± 0.10) × 10^-22 second half-life), becoming ³H.

 

As I said before, IANANP, so I have no basis to evaluate if Wikipedia is accurate and complete.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

{sup}3{/sup}H (change {} to []) and ⁴H are unstable isotopes' date=' I had never heard about [sup']4[/sup]H before this.

 

Quadium (⁴H) was the power source of the superbomb in The Mouse That Roared, inadvertently captured by the Duchy of Grand Fenwick during their invasion of Manhattan (20 chainmail-clad longbowmen on a chartered sailing ship, the objective of the war being to lose and have their tiny country rebuilt by the US - only they won instead).

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Very little detail' date=' almost no names, lot of grandiose claims - It's a scam, man![/freeverse']

 

It all makes perfect sense if you've studied unclear physics. (and minored in dysexlia)

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Please rep Xavier for creative dyslexia.

[Christopher]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Please rep Xavier for creative dyslexia.

Can't either.

[McCoy]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Please rep Xavier for creative dyslexia.

Would if I could.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I punted him one.

[Christopher]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Very little detail' date=' almost no names, lot of grandiose claims - It's a scam, man![/freeverse']

I don't know. It sounds like the process has been replicated dozens of times:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n

There was excess heat. (Unless you asume a dozen people managed to miss-measure heat, voltage and resistance hundreds of times).

 

But the science behind it (the why and how) was never understood and hence the results could never be replicated reliably (they was extra heat most of the times, but never the same amount or at the same time). They have basically doing it by trial and error so far.

What we have in the article in the OP, is just one Hypothesis how this might work:

Quantum Fusion Hypothesis.

[McCoy]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I don't know. It sounds like the process has been replicated dozens of times:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n

There was excess heat. (Unless you asume a dozen people managed to miss-measure heat, voltage and resistance hundreds of times).

 

But the science behind it (the why and how) was never understood and hence the results could never be replicated reliably (they was extra heat most of the times, but never the same amount or at the same time). They have basically doing it by trial and error so far.

What we have in the article in the OP, is just one Hypothesis how this might work:

Quantum Fusion Hypothesis.

Anyone produced a measurable amount of Helium? Every apparatus I've seen pictures of has been open to the air.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I don't know. It sounds like the process has been replicated dozens of times:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n

There was excess heat. (Unless you asume a dozen people managed to miss-measure heat, voltage and resistance hundreds of times).

 

But the science behind it (the why and how) was never understood and hence the results could never be replicated reliably (they was extra heat most of the times, but never the same amount or at the same time). They have basically doing it by trial and error so far.

What we have in the article in the OP, is just one Hypothesis how this might work:

Quantum Fusion Hypothesis.

Interesting. Certainly more convincing.

[The Weapon]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

But isn't it getting us on a different limited Fuel - Water?

 

When we asume it works out (and propably with better efficiency than current tech), then we will "burn" a lot of water on this.

 

Also while the CO² bilance is good, CO² isn't the only Greenhouse Gas. Producing millions of tons of helium per year or even day could have repecussion we have no idea of yet.

 

It would be fine if it works out, but it is not really a Miracle Source.

 

We have 622 million cubic kilometers of water in the Pacific alone (source wikipedia article on the Pacific Ocean). That is to say approximately 6.22 * 10^17 tonnes of water with about 6.9 * 10^16 tonnes of hydrogen. That's a lot when you consider we'll be burning it at fusion rates, not fossil feul rates.

 

From the masses of the hydrogen and helium atoms it appears that 0.7% of the mass turns to heat. Even assuming a 10% energy conversion rate each gram would get you 9*10^12 joules of electricity*, world energy consumption in 2008 (wikipedia again) was 474 exajoules or 4.74 *10^20 joules. So about the actual hydrogen needed would be on the order of 10^8 grams or tens of tonnes. The amount of helium released (even if it's made in small amounts so it's not worth capturing) is very 0.7% less than the hydrogen consumed i.e. trivial on a world scale.

 

* Take the figure in the projectrho big boom table for a gram of matter and antimatter divide by 2 for a gram mass/energy equivalence then by 10 for 10% efficiency.

[Christopher]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

We have 622 million cubic kilometers of water in the Pacific alone (source wikipedia article on the Pacific Ocean). That is to say approximately 6.22 * 10^17 tonnes of water with about 6.9 * 10^16 tonnes of hydrogen. That's a lot when you consider we'll be burning it at fusion rates' date=' not fossil feul rates.[/quote']

I know one thing:

If we can make energy cheap enough, we find ways to burn much more of it. (until we burn so much energy we get back to square one).

 

It's similar to how discspace works in Computers:

You neven can have enough.

When you have enough storage space, there will be more you want to store (beause you have the space). When you have too much to store, you upgrade your storage space.

And thus the loop begins.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I know one thing:

If we can make energy cheap enough, it will solve world demands for fresh water and food -- for starters.

[Guest dr. strangelove]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I know one thing:

If we can make energy cheap enough, it will solve world demands for fresh water and food -- for starters.

 

Yes, unlimited power would run desalinization plants, ans unlimited fresh water would be used for irrigation to grow more food.

 

But, I'm sorry to say, unless there was a profit margin in growing food for the poor most big corporations would just let them starve since feeding them made no money.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

IMO it doesn't have to be a "big corporation" that builds a power plant/desalination plant in . Once the technology is established, it could be a non-profit/charity organization that funds it, or even possibly a "government outreach" program. This is already happening with small wells and solar & wind-powered power generation stations being set up in third-world villages today.

[Guest dr. strangelove]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

IMO it doesn't have to be a "big corporation" that builds a power plant/desalination plant in . Once the technology is established' date=' it could be a non-profit/charity organization that funds it, or even possibly a "government outreach" program. This is already happening with small wells and solar & wind-powered power generation stations being set up in third-world villages today.[/quote']

 

 

Hope you're right.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I hope so too. Supporting the efforts to improve the health and living conditions of the third world is, at the same time as helping others with a "priming the pump" set up so they can sustain and grow themselves, is also helping enhance regional stability. I understand that a small solar/wind farm is (very likely) a far cry from a near-future fusion power plant, but there was a time when solar cells were deemed too expensive to use in the way they are now. So I see a potential parallel.

 

And if electricity becomes dirt cheap, that would be a significant incentive to switch from fossile fuel vehicles (where feasable*) to electric.

 

*large commercial jets, freight trains, and most military vehicles are IMO potential exceptions, given current and near-future projections of techology.

[Christopher]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

*large commercial jets' date=' freight trains, and most military vehicles are IMO potential exceptions, given current and near-future projections of techology.[/quote']

At least military vehicles will tend towards electrical systems as well.

You need a lot of power for a Railgun or weapons grade Laser. And at least the railgun is still in development.

[Guest dr. strangelove]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12/video-navys-mach-8-railgun-obliterates-record/?utm_source=Contextly&utm_medium=RelatedLinks&utm_campaign=Previous

[SteveZilla]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

At least military vehicles will tend towards electrical systems as well.

You need a lot of power for a Railgun or weapons grade Laser. And at least the railgun is still in development.

 

When I said 'electric' earlier, I wasn't clear. I was meaning "battery-powered', with little to no power generation on board. I can easily see large ships being fusion-powered, with electric propulsion and weapons (like the rail guns & lasers you mention). IMO military aircraft will have to remain fossile-fueled for the forseeable future. If they can crack the storage density of Hydrogen problem, then I can see switching aircraft (civilian and military) to H₂, but the air-breathing engine for propulsion in some form is here to stay.

[The Weapon]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

I know one thing:

If we can make energy cheap enough, we find ways to burn much more of it. (until we burn so much energy we get back to square one).

 

It's similar to how discspace works in Computers:

You neven can have enough.

When you have enough storage space, there will be more you want to store (beause you have the space). When you have too much to store, you upgrade your storage space.

And thus the loop begins.

 

We're talking about tens of tonnes of one of the world's most common substances to power the entire human race. Even if we consumed 1000x more energy in response to the lower cost it would still take tens of thousands of years to go through the hydrogen a cubic kilometer of water. Removing a cubic kilometer of water from the Pacific isn't even measurable. Using hydrogen at even a rate that would mean we'd run out of it would cook the earth from sheer waste heat. If this works we NEVER run out of feul.

[The Weapon]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

Yes, unlimited power would run desalinization plants, ans unlimited fresh water would be used for irrigation to grow more food.

 

But, I'm sorry to say, unless there was a profit margin in growing food for the poor most big corporations would just let them starve since feeding them made no money.

 

Providing stuff to poor people is what most big corporations do. While without massive help from government they probably wouldn't feed poor people this is only because other poor people would undercut them. They would certainly run the desal plants though, because, although the profit per megalitre wouldn't be great, it would add up.

[Cancer]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

You can get an unlimited supply of fresh water by making a long enough pipe with a semi-permiable membrane at the bottom and keeping its bottom end deep enough in the ocean. Standard desalinization has a lot of waste heat.

 

Making one of these is a a bit of a trick, of course.

[McCoy]

Re: Like Cold Fusion... Except It Works?

 

We're talking about tens of tonnes of one of the world's most common substances to power the entire human race. Even if we consumed 1000x more energy in response to the lower cost it would still take tens of thousands of years to go through the hydrogen a cubic kilometer of water. Removing a cubic kilometer of water from the Pacific isn't even measurable. Using hydrogen at even a rate that would mean we'd run out of it would cook the earth from sheer waste heat. If this works we NEVER run out of feul.

If this works (and I remain skeptical), the bottleneck isn't the hydrogen, it's the palladium for the catalyst. (US$611.40/oz at the close of the spot market yesterday.)

 

You can get an unlimited supply of fresh water by making a long enough pipe with a semi-permiable membrane at the bottom and keeping its bottom end deep enough in the ocean. Standard desalinization has a lot of waste heat.

 

Making one of these is a a bit of a trick, of course.

Another trick is replacing the membrane as it wears out/becomes damaged.