Alcamtar Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Do you use package deals in your campaign? Are they required or optional? That is, if a player wants to play a dwarf, does he have to use the dwarf package, or do you let him design his own? Does anyone offer different racial packages for different human groups? I'm thinking about having 3-4 different human ancestry packages with slight differences in characteristics. Do they get any special benefits for taking a package? In earlier editions, a package deal gave bonus points, but this has apparently been eliminated... so there's no real incentive to take a package. Do you offer an incentive as a house rule? I'm considering allowing disadvantages in package deals to not count against the total allowed. This gives an effective bonus to character points, without actually giving anything away fro free. Another idea is that any characteristics in the package don't count toward NCM... so if a package with +2 CON, the NCM for CON is raised to 22. (but you're not paying anything special for the privilege, it's just a bonus.) Finally, instead of offering a handful of points for "background skills" (as suggested on FH p.32), I might provide a selection of cultural packages and then let each player take an appropriate cultural package for free. Or provide 10 bonus points that can only be spent on a cultural or professional package. Looking for ideas and comments, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I use packages, but I don't call them deals. There is no deal. The name should have changed with the edition. They're just required buys, be they positive or negative, that go with a character concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I treat packages the same way--no bonus, just required buys. The main advantage is that certain powers and perks are not available without the packages. You can't have infravision unless you play a dwarf, you can't have growth unless you play a troll, and you can't have the Captain of the Imperial Guard perk unless you take the Captain of the Imperial Guard package. I do try to make the required buys zero out with required disads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugfromthearth Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 my recommendation is to divide it into two types - alterations and enhancements. An alteration should balance out to 0 points and should really be balanced - the limitations should be as limiting as the bonuses are useful (so no overconfident and +10 strength). Alterations do no affect your total - they give you a new base. A dwarf race could be an example - give +5 str and -2" running, and -1" jumping. The dwarf race doesn't pay ncm for str until it goes over 25 but pays ncm for running over 8". (Obviously a dwarf race could be a lot more complex then that, but you get the idea). Cultures could be done that way as well, but I don't recommend it. Free cultural differences are reflected in different everyman skills. Enhancements are packages for standard cultures, classes, etc. A fighter could be an enhancement, or a townsman (trading skill, wealth, etc). Enhancements may be mandatory - all soldiers must by the soldier package, or simply convenient. If you have townsman and guard packages you can create an npc town guard very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I break it down into 2 types of Packages: Race Packages and All Other Packages Each character must have 1 and only 1 Race Package, and Race Packages are locked -- the player cant monkey with them. Stats in Race packages effectively modify NCM as they are applied after NCM is calculated and the Disadvantage points of the Package are not counted against the players dis limit or total. In effect, since every Race Package has NCM for 20 and a DF worth at least 5, this works out to characters being around 150 real points even though the campaign starts at 125 points (50 Base, up to 75 points in personal Disadvantages). All other Packages are optional, discretionary, and with only a few rare exceptions completely alterable by the players as they wish. Disadvantages do count against limits/totals. Stats do count against NCM. They are just a convenient means of organization. Race Package are covered in detail here:Race Package Definition and Profession packages here: Profession Package Definition Cultural packages are setting dependent, so I dont have any posted, but they work the same way as Profession Packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowly Uhlan Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Only my second post on these boards but... I'm in the final stages of putting my FH game together, set in a high magic, herioc fantasy world (high magic for a heroic setting anyway). No elves, dwarves ,or halflings, just an immortal race (will probably limit them to 1 per party) and 7 races of men.I'll require an ancestral package, probably no more than 20 points, some of them further broken down by environment, not sure if I'll make my own(environmental packages) or go with what's in the book.They'll have disadvantages that will count towards the limit.I belong to a good group of players who aren't prone to powergaming (though Hero seems to encourage it-not a big deal) but I want skills and characteristics that define where the characters come from and this seems like a good way to encourage this. I'm considering tweaking the minima/maxima for each race and further requiring a professional package,but a second package seems like it might be too restrictive for Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Hey, a fellow San Diegan. Hows it going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Packages are suggestions, alter them at will. Two exceptions: 1) Certain organizations / cultures may have a required Package -- if you want that group in your background, you must have the Package. (Truly rare exceptions are allowed on occasion.) 2) Racial packages set the threshold for GM permission to raise a stat. If dwarves have +3 STR and -2 DEX, then a dwarven character requires GM permission to start with 19+ DEX. I never liked "package bonuses". Well, OK, I liked them when I was a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Re: Package Deals Originally posted by Alcamtar Do you use package deals in your campaign? Yep. Or rather, I will be (currently developing my first 5th Ed campaign) Are they required or optional? That is, if a player wants to play a dwarf, does he have to use the dwarf package, or do you let him design his own? I will a set number of racial packages that are based solely on race and feature, predominately, physical differences. Racial packages will be mandatory (everyone has a racial package...I think. Haven't decided on humans yet...) However, as far as skill and such go, I'd still leave that to a 'profession package' such as Killer Shrike alludes to (and outlines on his site). Does anyone offer different racial packages for different human groups? I'm thinking about having 3-4 different human ancestry packages with slight differences in characteristics. No, I don't offer different "human racial packages", but different regions and subraces have slightly different "everyman" skills. For example, certain nomads all have "Riding, 8-", while others all have "TF: Small boats". Again, I leave the serious skills for profession packages, but I feel the "everyman" skills can be tweaked enough to allow for regional and racial diversity. Do they get any special benefits for taking a package? In earlier editions, a package deal gave bonus points, but this has apparently been eliminated... so there's no real incentive to take a package. Do you offer an incentive as a house rule? No, but unlike some I use the "Normal Char Maxima" disad to counter the cost of the package. Thus, a dwarven racial package might have 23 pts in altered physical abilities and what not. Counter that with the NCM and the package costs 3pts. Since everyone is going to have to take a racial package (it'll be mandatory), the NCM will tend to counter it. [disclaimer: I haven't fully developed this yet so I haven't plugged all the holes...but I'm working on it.] I'm considering allowing disadvantages in package deals to not count against the total allowed. This gives an effective bonus to character points, without actually giving anything away fro free. In the past this is what I've done, as well. A "Distinctive Feature: Smell" given to a tanner would offset his skill package, but not count toward the regular disadvantages. Another idea is that any characteristics in the package don't count toward NCM... so if a package with +2 CON, the NCM for CON is raised to 22. (but you're not paying anything special for the privilege, it's just a bonus.) Again I do this as well. If the characteristics are altered in a racial package, that becomes the norm for that character. Thus, if a dwarf gets +2 to CON, his NCM for CON is set at 22. Likewise, a -2 DEX means his NCM for DEX is set at 18. Finally, instead of offering a handful of points for "background skills" (as suggested on FH p.32), I might provide a selection of cultural packages and then let each player take an appropriate cultural package for free. Or provide 10 bonus points that can only be spent on a cultural or professional package. Consider changing everyman skills instead of (or in addition to) cultural packages. It makes things a bit easier and, in my opinion, a little more realistic. Them's my too sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Racial Packages are required if you're a member of that race, changing has yet to be allowed. Professional and cultural packages are optional. Hey I'm in San Diego too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Hmm. I think San Diegans must rule the world soon at this rate -- now if we could only get a decent ball team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Why we have a new stadium, we don't need a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowly Uhlan Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Yeah we'll only have one Pro team after we lose the Chargers next year. Petco Stadium should be a great place to watch the Pad's though. Is anyone playing FH in San Diego? Are the San Diegans hijacking this thread ("Take this thread to PB Drive and Mission. I have a bomb.") ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Currently we're doing Supers, but Im getting Fantasy lined up in the background, and we are doing a shared-world design for the next fantasy setting we are going to play. Im getting the game mechanics material done in the background, which Im posting as I go at http://www.FantasyHERO.com . Most of the world building in on paper at this point, but eventually will get typed up once its gelled more. We were planning to start in a few weeks, but due to various things including the holidays we may not get started for another few weeks, perhaps the beginning of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 We're play SteamPunk hero right now, our GM's world of Aerious. Decidely a FH game, W/blackpower, steampower and a little Cthulu-esque ookieness to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Rick We're play SteamPunk hero right now, our GM's world of Aerious. Decidely a FH game, W/blackpower, steampower and a little Cthulu-esque ookieness to boot. That sounds pretty interesting. Ive never had the cajones to try to run a Steampunk game -- I know next to nothing about the Age of Steam, so Id hose it all up. Just out of curiousity, where r u guys located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Well the game is set in a Dr. Zivago type setting currently. There are the Arcadians (humans, think capitilist Russians) who forsook the magic and religion of their past in favor of this new tech. The Dwarves who are full on Communist except they are out going and reconnecting to the outside world after over throwing thier corrupt theocracy they too turned their backs on magic. The elves are relusive living high in thier floating cities (they've the most anadultrated magic, Name magic). The Lryan, an anthrompomorphic lion race that lives in the Savanna's far to the south, they are a shamanistic hunter gatherer culture. The Imperium (humans) basicly the Vatican W/teeth, their magic is semi-deitic, they and the lyran (they are neighbors) are the primary defence of the Corruptive power of the evil Techno-lich thing/nation in the southern sea. (I don't remember rhte stuff about the south sea, we've yet to run into it). The Naga live deep in forrest and have mysterious powers over memory. The Kaminoians are new to this world (Japenes/chinese, but red skinned and vague draconic). There God/Emperor, the the Dragon King brought them here from their dying world. My character is a Arcanian, a Tolstoi type of social subversive and philosopher who fears that his cultures singlular focus on the future while forgeting the past is dangerous.We also have a Lyrian on a quest for knowledge about different peoples of the world. Then finally is the Diviner (actually a ranger in most games) who is an arcanian working for a Dr. Brown type of genious inventor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowly Uhlan Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Interesting steampunk concept ,Rick.I'm currently playing CODA-Trek at Game Towne on alternate Mondays (Game Towne has become a decent place to play since a certain employee has left). It will be 6 weeks to a month before I kick off my Fantasy game. Maybe we could all get together for a session or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Lowly Uhlan Interesting steampunk concept ,Rick.I'm currently playing CODA-Trek at Game Towne on alternate Mondays (Game Towne has become a decent place to play since a certain employee has left). It will be 6 weeks to a month before I kick off my Fantasy game. Maybe we could all get together for a session or 2. Its possible. My group is currently full, but half of them are college students at UCSD and usually split for home over the holidays leaving the rest of us sans game. We might be able to do a one off or two. Could be cool assuming we can all manage to get along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Perhaps, my time is very limited though, I'm a student at Cal State Fullerton (yes it's a long commute), between learning chinese, having tons of music to write, 2-4 hours a day of Guitar and piano practice and Kung Fu 4 days a week, I'm lucky I get the 5 hours a week on sunday to actually play in the first place. I'm going to run a game one day but I'm a little strapped for time currently . As was said though over the break might be doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowly Uhlan Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Yeah, full time work and part time school is whoopin' me too. I think I can have my game up and running by break. I'll let you guys know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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