sporeworld Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I feel like I'm cheating on my taxes as I build my character with Characteristics as powers. The Hero Designer lets me add "Always On" to things like CON and STR. Can that be right? I'm building a Brick (think Concrete), and I'm defining the Hard Shell as the basis of everything. So, if I buy THAT as an expensive Resistant Def, it looks like I can then "link" (-1/4) Characteristics like STR and CON and BODY to that Larger power. Is that right? Oddly, I could then (according to Hero Designer) use the 3/4 linked modifier "Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value". So, an expensive "Always On" Resistant Defense gives me a -3/4 modifier to all sorts of Hard-Shell-Themed powers. That seems all kinds of abusive. Am I missing something...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! To be "Always On", aren't they supposed to be 0end/Persistant (+3/4 advantage)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporeworld Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Dunno. They kinda already are. I'm just not sure I can see any DISadvantage to something like CON being Always On, since it already is. Growth or Density Increase Always On create obvious problems. Not sure how "Increased Body" could be justified. Or even STR (since it would be bought down to 0 END). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! I feel like I'm cheating on my taxes as I build my character with Characteristics as powers. The Hero Designer lets me add "Always On" to things like CON and STR. Can that be right? I'm building a Brick (think Concrete), and I'm defining the Hard Shell as the basis of everything. So, if I buy THAT as an expensive Resistant Def, it looks like I can then "link" (-1/4) Characteristics like STR and CON and BODY to that Larger power. Is that right? Oddly, I could then (according to Hero Designer) use the 3/4 linked modifier "Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value". So, an expensive "Always On" Resistant Defense gives me a -3/4 modifier to all sorts of Hard-Shell-Themed powers. That seems all kinds of abusive. Am I missing something...? First rule of Limitations (and Complocations): A Limitation that isn't limiting, isn't worth any points. To apply Always On (and have it have any value), the Power being always on must be Disadvantageous. It's used for power that usually are be a hassle when always on: Darkness Field (asuming you can't see through). Permanent Desolidification (you can't interact with the normal world without Advantage). Invsibility (you can't be seen) As the Power must be 0 END, Persistent and (possibly) Inherent. STR and CON by default lack this downside so even if you put it on them, this is propably a -0. Same with Linked: If it isn't a problem to have the power on, then Linked isn't worth any saving. Linking to Persistent Powers is never going to be worth anything. 0 END Constant might be worth something (if you can use the linked power while K.O.). Anythign that cost endurance is usually worth something. Hero Designer is only a Programm. Hence the reasoning is limited at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! I feel like I'm cheating on my taxes as I build my character with Characteristics as powers. The Hero Designer lets me add "Always On" to things like CON and STR. Can that be right? Always On STR would be problematic. You couldn't shake a normal peson's hand without crushing it. You can't casually toss an object to someone, because everything you throw becomes a deadly missile. You could become very destructive to the environment and any person who isn't super durable. Always On CON looks like it has no downsides - so I reluctantly say, no Limitation for it. I'm building a Brick (think Concrete)' date=' and I'm defining the Hard Shell as the basis of everything. So, if I buy THAT as an expensive Resistant Def, it looks like I can then "link" (-1/4) Characteristics like STR and CON and BODY to that Larger power. Is that [i']right[/i]? Oddly, I could then (according to Hero Designer) use the 3/4 linked modifier "Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value". So, an expensive "Always On" Resistant Defense gives me a -3/4 modifier to all sorts of Hard-Shell-Themed powers. That seems all kinds of abusive. Am I missing something...? One thing you may be missing - there's also a modifier for "greater power is in use most of the time." Bear in mind that if you use Linked or Unified Power (I'm getting fuzzy on the distinction these days) and something comes along to soften up that old hard shell, the extra Characteristics will go away. I might say that an Attack vs Alternate Defense for example, that bypasses the armor and inflicts STUN directly, could stun you at the lower CON value, because the higher CON is linked to the "hard concrete shell" power - which this attack bypasses. But you're right, this is probably "cheating at your taxes" in most games, because there will be so few occasions where the limitation comes into play. I seem to recall that Hero Designer also let me put Range on Stretching. We never did figure out how that made any sense (mind you, this was Stretching at Range - not Stretching, Usable on Other, at Range, which WOULD make sense. Sort of. If you can explain how your character makes another character's limbs get suddenly longer.) Lucius Alexander Inherent Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Always On STR would be problematic. You couldn't shake a normal peson's hand without crushing it. You can't casually toss an object to someone' date=' because everything you throw becomes a deadly missile. You could become very destructive to the environment and any person who isn't super durable.[/quote'] Hmm, never thought about interpreting it that way. Bear in mind that if you use Linked or Unified Power (I'm getting fuzzy on the distinction these days) and something comes along to soften up that old hard shell' date=' the extra Characteristics will go away. I might say that an Attack vs Alternate Defense for example, that bypasses the armor and inflicts STUN directly, could stun you at the lower CON value, because the higher CON is linked to the "hard concrete shell" power - which this attack bypasses.[/quote'] I don't think it works that way. As long as you ahve that shell and it is not negatively adjusted (you use it at "full power"), the CON will work against any form of attack. I seem to recall that Hero Designer also let me put Range on Stretching. We never did figure out how that made any sense (mind you' date=' this was Stretching at Range - not Stretching, Usable on Other, at Range, which WOULD make sense. Sort of. If you can explain how your character makes another character's limbs get suddenly longer.)[/quote'] Like I said: It's just a program. It cannot reason and it is easy to forget one disqualification rule. And especially in Hero, there is bound to be someone who does finds a reason to put Ranged on Stretching, so it's better to not make too many rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Always On STR would be problematic. You couldn't shake a normal peson's hand without crushing it. You can't casually toss an object to someone' date=' because everything you throw becomes a deadly missile. You could become very destructive to the environment and any person who isn't super durable.[/quote'] A valid point - Always On pretty much comes with "at maximum power" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Hmm, never thought about interpreting it that way. I don't think it works that way. As long as you ahve that shell and it is not negatively adjusted (you use it at "full power"), the CON will work against any form of attack. Like I said: It's just a program. It cannot reason and it is easy to forget one disqualification rule. And especially in Hero, there is bound to be someone who does finds a reason to put Ranged on Stretching, so it's better to not make too many rules. I agree a hundred percent. Just because no one thought of a reason when I brought it up online here, doesn't mean there isn't someone for whom it makes sense. As for the No Normal Defense vs lower CON thing, you're right that it's a stretch, but it might be a way of making the Limitation actually worth the points. If it were my character I don't think I'd object to that interpretation, especially if there were nevery any cases of of my carapace being actually Drained or Dispelled. Lucius Alexander Inherent Palindromedary Powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporeworld Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Wow - some really great things to think about. With a 40 some odd STR, there's no WAY he could function with STR Always On, At Full Power. Think John Carter - jumping all around, etc. So, while I wouldn't TAKE that (or play that character), it would be a good excuse for the discount. But with the Linked modifier, i think it WOULD apply, as a drain of main power would automatically affect all of the others (I think). And if they were unified, for sure. And MAYBE the modifier "Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value" would mean that even a SINGLE point of Drain would zero out every linked power! While that's difficult to conceptualize with the SPX, I think it would still be justified. With CON, you could still take the Linked modifier (keeping in mind the example above). I'd argue it's probably not worth the points unless maybe you have a Hunted NPC who KNOWS and can exploit this weakness (ie: "The Red Crab", a Human/Hermit Crab hybrid who absorbs people's shells). :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! But with the Linked modifier' date=' i think it WOULD apply, as a drain of main power would automatically affect all of the others (I think). And if they were unified, for sure. And MAYBE the modifier "Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value" would mean that even a SINGLE point of Drain would zero out every linked power! While that's difficult to conceptualize with the SPX, I think it would still be justified. With CON, you could still take the Linked modifier (keeping in mind the example above). I'd argue it's probably not worth the points unless maybe you have a Hunted NPC who KNOWS and can exploit this weakness (ie: "The Red Crab", a Human/Hermit Crab hybrid who absorbs people's shells). :-) Linked can be highly modified. The default is: Greater Power has some "cost" to keep it on - Endurance, need to take actions, etc. Lesser Power must be used Proportional to Greater Power. You can move both sides towards more or less resctriction. When the greater Power is Persistent and you cut out the need for proportionality this Linked becoems a -0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! HD is not really a rules resource. Just because it lets you do something doesn't mean it's legal (and just because something is legal doesn't mean the GM will let you do it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! I seem to recall that Hero Designer also let me put Range on Stretching. We never did figure out how that made any sense (mind you, this was Stretching at Range - not Stretching, Usable on Other, at Range, which WOULD make sense. Sort of. If you can explain how your character makes another character's limbs get suddenly longer.) Lucius Alexander Inherent Palindromedary The first thing that came to my mind is magic of course. A mage grants you ape arms! The second to represent a giant then I thought of growth. Or how about the sci-fi version of magic? Nanites! I never would have thought of trying to put that build together on my own so I guess the Palindromedary strecthed my imagination! (Ok bad pun) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporeworld Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Hahaha - Yeah - I can see it defined as Stretching that goes from your hex to Point A (the length of "Range") and then you can do your Strength via stretching, measures from point A, and not from where you're standing. Kinda weird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! Hahaha - Yeah - I can see it defined as Stretching that goes from your hex to Point A (the length of "Range") and then you can do your Strength via stretching' date=' measures from point A, and not from where you're standing. Kinda weird?[/quote'] That sounds more like using full indirect/does no passes through intervening space for Stretching. The real Problem is that Range is in most parts inferior to Strechting: Stretching allows you to make HTH-Attacks on Distance, so you can add STR and the Move-Maneuvers to your damage. Stretching doesn't suffers Range penalties, the same way Range does. The only real downside is, that Stretching suffers from Damage Shields. It is really a "Stretching or Ranged" thing. The same way it is a OCV or OMCV thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! One of my players tried to get a character with "Stretching, no range", because "It's cheaper that way." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! The first thing that came to my mind is magic of course. A mage grants you ape arms! The second to represent a giant then I thought of growth. Or how about the sci-fi version of magic? Nanites! I never would have thought of trying to put that build together on my own so I guess the Palindromedary strecthed my imagination! (Ok bad pun) That would be Stretching, Usable On Other, Range - which makes sense. I was talking about Stretching, Range, which doesn't make sense without Usable On Other. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says Lucius would know about talking without making sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Re: Characteristics as Powers - Can I REALLY do this...!?! I see the difference-my bad. And well I dunno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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