Killing Damage to Normal Damage

[Greywind]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

I put up the stats that I've seen Wolverine statted out with on his HKA. All the builds I've seen of him run about the same. If you look at the Different Worlds with the X-Men, they also had Cyclops loaded out with an Optic MP. High end "all or nothing" attack was like 18d6.

[Istaran]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

The guidelines for that power-level are 12-14 DC.

This attack is twice that.

"Wolveriens claws" clearly points out that this is his normal attack, without limitations like charges or extra-endurance (wich might make a exceptional DC-attack acceptable).

 

Do you ever actually played in a game where such an attack (or something similar) was allowed, or are you just saying "I can think of a situation where you are wrong"?

 

I'm generally inclined to think each PC should have one (or more but few) unique exemptions from caps that says they can be just a little better than everyone else at that one thing, and I think dealing damage is a reasonable one for wolverine. (Aside from regeneration and maybe freakishly high BODY I can't think of anywhere else he would be expected to excel compared to other supers. But dealing damage, especially to highly armored targets, is quite clearly where he is portrayed as shining.)

Beyond that, even if I weren't inclined to grant such an exemption, I think ignoring one instance of AP from the cap is reasonable. In the vast majority of cases, he's just got the effect of one AP, which does increase his damage from what the dice alone indicate. The fact that he is extra-specially effective against enemies with one level of hardened (or rather, isn't screwed because they ignore his schtick and make him just plain lower dice than his teammates) is a niche bonus, for which he should pay cp but not be penalized with caps. It mostly only matters against enemies designed to let him shine.

That is.. if everyone else has 12 DC attacks, I might allow for 4d6 KA + APx2 because that's his special area to shine and go over cap, while someone else might be allowed to break campaign CV limits or DEF limits or something. But I would definitely let him do an attack that would be 12 DC with APx1 but has APx2 (paying the CP and END, but not inhibited by caps).

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

Yeah, when we were putting together the campaign specs for a X-Men style mutant campaign, we quickly decided upon contemplation that the X-Men campaign rules used much higher caps than HERO's recommended Standard Supers.

Wolvie's not the only one. They pretty much all have pretty high order powersets. Workable versions can be built within standard caps, but take some Fragile World ground rules and/or lots of Power Stunts to accomplish many of the things shown in the comics.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

X-Men can be a tough one to simulate. Cyclops (and Havoc) is clearly well over most DC maxima, but he also isn't bulletproof by any means, and should be pretty low defense. Wolverine regenerates, but his defenses are limited. Storm and Nightcrawler have no basis for significant rDEF, and Nightcrawler should be below campaign standard attacks as well. Colossus has rDEF, but it's tough to assert for Beast or Angel. Iceman probably has some rDEF. The only real standard EP with a force field to go with her Blaster suite is Polaris. The psychics might have a TK protection power, but that's not consistent.

 

Especially early X-Men, mutation was very much about one power/power set and not the typical Supers game of attack, defense and movement. They need to be rationalized in with high martial arts and bulletproof costumes/combat luck to become competitive in Hero system.

 

Of course, the X-Men's players were probably the world's worst min-max'ers. Seriously, you know the campaign features the Master of Magnetism, and two players build characters based around "metal body" SFX?

[dmjalund]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

Nightcrawler has a NND stun attack/drain based on teleporting with the other character.

[Markdoc]

Re: Killing Damage to Normal Damage

 

The guidelines for that power-level are 12-14 DC.

This attack is twice that.

 

Guidelines. Not rules. Guidelines.

 

And yes, I've played in a 3-400 point superhero game where people were throwing around 8d6 HKAs and 18d6 AP HAs.

 

Don't get hung up on optional suggestions: what's baseline and what's normal varies from campaign to campaign.

 

cheers, Mark