Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

[Ninja-Bear]

I have a quick question with the Disarm manuever and OCV and holding a weapon two-handed. I know it seems obvious but I try to disarm a person who is holding a say a staff with both hands, and I use the additional OCV modifier, is the total a -4 OCV or minus -2?

 

Thanks as always

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

Looking at non-r5th, it says that the attacker gets a -2 penalty on his Disarm. The Disarm has a -2 to start with, so for me that's -4.

 

I find it interesting that the book focuses only on weapon vs. weapon Disarms. If you're barehanded disarming a two-handed weapon, you're better off than trying to use a weapon to knock the opponent's weapon out of their hand, because you can apply more leverage. Provided your hands have protection, that is. I've seen Medieval disarming techniques that grab the blade of the weapon directly, as well as choke up on the blade of a two handed sword offensively. These assume you're wearing mail gloves. Against staves or pole weapons, even the gloves aren't an issue.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

Pattern Ghost it does recommend that in Heroic games, you could add an additional -1 to -3 for unarmed disrming an armed opponent-at least in 5th. What I always found odd was that weapons designed to disarm a weapon only were bought with OCV to hit but no additional STR for disarming purposes.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

Pattern Ghost it does recommend that in Heroic games' date=' you could add an additional -1 to -3 for unarmed disrming an armed opponent-at least in 5th. What I always found odd was that weapons designed to disarm a weapon only were bought with OCV to hit but no additional STR for disarming purposes.[/quote']

 

True, it does, but most of the section covers armed disarms. Then again, I question the additional penalties for unarmed. In fact, why so many additional penalties over the baseline? It seems to muddy what the baseline represents.

 

Also, the examples in the rules are very SFX dependent in discribing disarms.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I think when you get to the STR vs STR roll, anyone who is holding the weapon with two hands should get a +5 STR to their roll (or alternatively -5 STR for one-handed weapons). That would be a fair house rule in my opinion.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I think when you get to the STR vs STR roll' date=' anyone who is holding the weapon with two hands should get a +5 STR to their roll (or alternatively -5 STR for one-handed weapons). That would be a fair house rule in my opinion.[/quote']

 

That is suggested as an alternative or in addition of the OCV penalty. But for now, I'm sticking with the OCV penalty.

[Christopher]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

Pattern Ghost it does recommend that in Heroic games' date=' you could add an additional -1 to -3 for unarmed disrming an armed opponent-at least in 5th. What I always found odd was that weapons designed to disarm a weapon only were bought with OCV to hit but no additional STR for disarming purposes.[/quote']

At least 6E has optional modifiers that are based on the relative hth-range of both parties.

 

Unarmed would have 1m/count like a small weapon

A guy with a greatsword would have 2m (1 natural, +1 from the weapon).

So at first the unarmed guy would have a -1 OCV penalty. If he still hits he managed to "get into the defenses", so now the penalty shifts - the sword guy has the -1 (if he still has his sword). So the sword guy better makes an umarmed shove to get mim out (either as real maneuver, or as special effect).

It is even more pronounced with things like spears (2m) or Longspears (3m).

 

Of course the book also has optional penalties for enclosed space, where range again works against you.

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I've had martial arts training. It is possible to due a partial disarm on a two-handed weapon by either dislodging one of the the hands or by grabbing the weapon in such a way as lock up one of the arms. You then have any easier shot at a full disarm after that. In game terms, that would probably mean the next phase. I'm not sure how to adjudicate this mechanically, but it is possible in the real world.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I've had martial arts training. It is possible to due a partial disarm on a two-handed weapon by either dislodging one of the the hands or by grabbing the weapon in such a way as lock up one of the arms. You then have any easier shot at a full disarm after that. In game terms' date=' that would probably mean the next phase. I'm not sure how to adjudicate this mechanically, but it is possible in the real world.[/quote']Build an Unarmed Weapon Bind move and a superior Martial Disarm with the Must Follow [bind] element?

[Christopher]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I've had martial arts training. It is possible to due a partial disarm on a two-handed weapon by either dislodging one of the the hands or by grabbing the weapon in such a way as lock up one of the arms. You then have any easier shot at a full disarm after that. In game terms' date=' that would probably mean the next phase. I'm not sure how to adjudicate this mechanically, but it is possible in the real world.[/quote']

When you grab one arm, the enemy can't use that arm to use the weapon. As longs as no Damage Shield is in the way, a "grab" maneuver does not require to actually grab the arm - it can just be what you describe.

That at first means the STR-minimum goes up (+3 or -2 OCV for guns), propably reducing your OCV or at least the damage from STR.

It also means the defender of the disarm does not get the bonus for two-handed weapon when the disarm hits - after all he isn't holding the weapon with two arms at that time.

 

Of coruse for most part, I would think what you described is just the Special Effect for a Martial Disarm - you do something to increase your chance of disarming (extra OCV and STR).

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I've had martial arts training. It is possible to due a partial disarm on a two-handed weapon by either dislodging one of the the hands or by grabbing the weapon in such a way as lock up one of the arms. You then have any easier shot at a full disarm after that. In game terms' date=' that would probably mean the next phase. I'm not sure how to adjudicate this mechanically, but it is possible in the real world.[/quote']

 

Well if you try to escape a grab that has two arms pinned and you choose to free just one arm, you get to add +5 STR. I see no real why it wouldn't apply here to 2-handed weapons. And I guess then the person holding the weapon would have to make a fast draw or dex roll to gain the weapon back?

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I was referring to capturing the weapon and not the arm. The idea is that the opponent would have to let go of the weapon to escape; so, it works kind of like a lock or some kind of wing chun sticky hands thing. It works best with clubs and other longish weapons without sharp bits.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I was referring to capturing the weapon and not the arm. The idea is that the opponent would have to let go of the weapon to escape; so' date=' it works kind of like a lock or some kind of wing chun sticky hands thing. It works best with clubs and other longish weapons without sharp bits.[/quote']which is why I suggested a modified Bind.

[Christopher]

Re: Disarming a two-handed weapon (5thr)

 

I was referring to capturing the weapon and not the arm. The idea is that the opponent would have to let go of the weapon to escape; so' date=' it works kind of like a lock or some kind of wing chun sticky hands thing. It works best with clubs and other longish weapons without sharp bits.[/quote']

Than you just Grab the Weapon. It counts as one limb, but afaik you suffer the -2 Focus penalty in addition to the normal -2 Grab.

 

HSMA 6E has Grab Weapon as something seperate from normal Grab (a seerate Maneuver basis). Same cost as normal grab, but only targets weapons (you can't use it on limbs).

It allows a STR vs STR contest to disarm, but otherwise it just Blocks teh weapon.

I think it does not suffer the normal -2 Focus penalty.

I am ever certain there is somewhere a Block with Grab Weapon (but the garb part does not work on aborted Blocks).

 

Except for lightsabers, there is always enough "non dangerous" parts to grab. Two handed swords even have an area on the blade side of the crossguard with no blade - so the user can grab the weapon there.

 

HSMA also has the "Weapon Bind" exlsuvie basis. It is cheaper than Weapon Grab and if done unarmed you don't suffer damage.