Tracking Bugs

[griffinman01]

I'm about to start up a sci-fi campaign and one of my PCs was interesting in creating a remote tracking bug. The idea is the kind of thing you see in spy movies where you toss a small tracer onto a car or object and then are able to use an external device to determine the location of the bug. I was having trouble building it because many of the ideas I had wouldn't quite work. I ended up using Clairsentience to design the power but I was wondering if anyone had an easier, and possibly cheaper (having it work over a long distance cost a ton of points), way to build this kind of power.

[BhelliomRahl]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

There is a Tracking Bug in Hero System Equipment Guide (HSEG) page 305, which builds the Tracking Bug as:

Images to Radio Group, +4 to PER Rolls, Area Of Effect (64m Radius; +1¼), Usable As Attack (allows character to “stick” the Image to a target; +1¼), 1 Continuing Recoverable Charge lasting 1 Week (stops functioning if it gets wet or experiences severe radio interference; +1) (76 Active Points); IAF (-½), Image Only Perceivable On Special Radio Frequencies (-0), No Range (character must place the bug on the target to be followed; -½), Set Effect (detectable signal; -1).

Total cost: 25 points.

 

The signal is detectale outside of the radius but every step decreases the Perception modifier. i.e. 65-125; +2, 126-250; +0, 251-500; -2, etc.

 

The Player will need a Receiver to perceive the signal, something simple as:

Radio Perception; +4 to PER Roll, Tracking (17 Active Points); Focus IIF (-1/4).

Total Cost: 14 points.

 

To be honest I am unsure about the Tracking aspect. Tracking allow the sense to be used to perceive in this case a radio signal and track it.

 

Alternatively the Tracking Bug could be linked with a GPS (Talent - Bump of Direction) to allow it to transmit coordinates which a computer could use to show the location on a Map.

 

The HSEG has a great selection of Espionage equipment. I would recommmend having a look. Also the Hero System Skills from 5th Edition goes into more details on Bugs and Bugging in Hero System Terms.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

The HSEG version is more exacting, so that looks like a good way to go.

 

My first thought however was to build it as Detect Radio Tracking Bug (Radio Sense), Increased Arc of Perception 360°, +8 PER Range Modifier, OAF: Radio Tracking Gear (Active: 12, Real: 6). Here you use the gear to literally find the bug you planted. Planting the bug will require Bugging, Concealment, and/or Sleight of Hand to put in place.

[griffinman01]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

There is a Tracking Bug in Hero System Equipment Guide (HSEG) page 305' date=' which builds the Tracking Bug as:

Images to Radio Group, +4 to PER Rolls, Area Of Effect (64m Radius; +1¼), Usable As Attack (allows character to “stick” the Image to a target; +1¼), 1 Continuing Recoverable Charge lasting 1 Week (stops functioning if it gets wet or experiences severe radio interference; +1) (76 Active Points); IAF (-½), Image Only Perceivable On Special Radio Frequencies (-0), No Range (character must place the bug on the target to be followed; -½), Set Effect (detectable signal; -1).

Total cost: 25 points.

 

The signal is detectale outside of the radius but every step decreases the Perception modifier. i.e. 65-125; +2, 126-250; +0, 251-500; -2, etc.

 

The Player will need a Receiver to perceive the signal, something simple as:

Radio Perception; +4 to PER Roll, Tracking (17 Active Points); Focus IIF (-1/4).

Total Cost: 14 points.

 

To be honest I am unsure about the Tracking aspect. Tracking allow the sense to be used to perceive in this case a radio signal and track it.

 

Alternatively the Tracking Bug could be linked with a GPS (Talent - Bump of Direction) to allow it to transmit coordinates which a computer could use to show the location on a Map.

 

The HSEG has a great selection of Espionage equipment. I would recommmend having a look. Also the Hero System Skills from 5th Edition goes into more details on Bugs and Bugging in Hero System Terms.

 

Thanks, that works perfectly!

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I'd buy it as per the normal Tracking skill, with the limitation, only to track bugs (-1).

[griffinman01]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I had a question when I was building the power earlier today and I wanted to run it by everyone and see what people say about it.

 

So, my question deals with the cost of building the power. If you look at how expensive it is to build as dictated by the book (76 active points and 30 real points) I began to wonder why don't you disregard the added perception for a larger range.

 

My thoughts on the issue were that, images are easier to perceive the closer you are to them and harder to perceive the further away you are. So, with the book's build you have a radius of 32" (64 m) and +4 perception at that point. If you were to try and detect this at, say 128" (256 m) you would make the roll at -4 which would effectively negate the bonus you paid for. However, if you decided to not give a perception bonus to it and instead went with the following build:

 

Radio group images, usable as attack (+1), 1 Recoverable continuing charge lasting 1 week (+1 1/4), x1024 radius (+2 1/2) (29 active points) Set Effect (dectectable signal) (-1), IAF (-1/2) = real cost 8 points.

 

It seems to me that you would get a base range of 1024" for far less points which would not only allow you to detect it much further (the book build would have that be at a -4 PER roll rather than +0 as it is here) and even at 32" (64m) you would get a +8 to the roll (since you're going from 1024" to 32") to perceive it (also better than the book build). In addition to this, the real cost is a quarter of what you would have to pay for the book version.

 

So, I'm wondering if there's something about my build of the power that I'm not getting that would account for why the book example is four times the cost for what appears to be a weaker version of the power. Any advice would help!

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I tend to go with Mind Scan for that one, putting some bonus/negative ECV for the scanner to find it onto the bug itself (IIF, Radio not Mental, Coded Frequency Only). That way, you can get at least a general direction starting out, then get it refined with a solid 'where'. Obviously you can't attack through it, but with just a little more mod, you could see through it.

 

Mind Scan already has a significant (planetary) range; without more information on your campaign, I couldn't say if that was too much, but if it was, you could certainly reduce it to a 'slightly limited' or 'standard' range, at -1/4 to -1/2; 'slightly limited' might be considered equivalent to a quasi-megascale 1" = 1km or 10km or so.

[Greywind]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I'd buy it as per the normal Tracking skill' date=' with the limitation, [i']only to track bugs (-1)[/i].

 

SC: Entomology would be a good complimentary skill for that.

[griffinman01]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

So, anyone have an answer to the question I posed a few posts back? I'm curious if I'm building the power right or if I'm missing some key rule or issue that makes my build unusable.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

Your power build, so far as I can tell, looks valid.

[psyber624]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

The problem with that build is that, with a VERY literal RAW interpretation, the closest you could narrow your search down to would be 1024" (2048 Meters, or about 1.2 miles) your "signal" covers an area that large and so once you are inside that area you cannot narrow it down any further.

 

By contrast the book example creates a 64 meter radius image. By the time you get in range of that you should be able to see your target and no longer need a tracking signal.

 

When you use AOE you are creating a radio "image" the size of the AOE, once you are inside the area of the image any device would tell you "you are here" even if you are still a mile away from your tracker.

[Rhino]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I'd buy it as per the normal Tracking skill' date=' with the limitation, [i']only to track bugs (-1)[/i].

 

This is elegant. I am also intrigued by the mind scan variant.

[griffinman01]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

The problem with that build is that, with a VERY literal RAW interpretation, the closest you could narrow your search down to would be 1024" (2048 Meters, or about 1.2 miles) your "signal" covers an area that large and so once you are inside that area you cannot narrow it down any further.

 

By contrast the book example creates a 64 meter radius image. By the time you get in range of that you should be able to see your target and no longer need a tracking signal.

 

When you use AOE you are creating a radio "image" the size of the AOE, once you are inside the area of the image any device would tell you "you are here" even if you are still a mile away from your tracker.

 

Actually, according to the RAW, " (Pg 189 5th ed rev) An image that's larger than one hex doesn't have to fill the entire space available. It can fill whichever of the hexes within its radius its creator wants it to."

 

So,from that, couldn't it just be specified as a single hex within the whole area, ie the target's hex?

[Rhino]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

What about Detect with the Range advantage?

[Greywind]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

From Gadgets and Gear:

The Homing Tracer can reliably be “picked

up” on tracking equipment primarily within a 32”

radius. However, much like a character can see the

beam from a flashlight from far away without being

inside the beam, characters outside the 32” radius

may still be able to track the Tracer, if the GM so

permits: from 33-64”, the Image is at only +2 to

PER Rolls; from 65-125”, it’s at +0; from 126-250”

it’s at -2; beyond that it would require an Extraordinary

Skill Roll to locate it.

[psyber624]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

Yes, but then you aren't using the whole aoe of your image. That is similar to only using 6d6 of Blast when you purchased 12d6. You don't have to use the whole area, but if you don't use it you don't have its benefits (if you have a 1 hex image vs sight, for instance, someone 1 mile away cant see it even tho you have a 1 mile AOE on your image, the "image" only exists in that one hex. You could have created an image that covered the whole mile AOE, and then could be seen with that as the baseline, but you chose not to do it, someone a mile away doesn't suddenly get to see it just because you COULD have created it larger. The same reasoning applies to your Image vs Radio Perception. You might set the AOE for your radio transmitter to 2m, but then normal PER modifiers would apply from that point and the fact that you BOUGHT a huge AOE doesn't apply, its not what you buy, its what you USE that matters in this situation.

[psyber624]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

From Gadgets and Gear:

 

then they are using the "radio image" differently than how images are described in a book (honestly tracking an image doesn't really work in the game rules by a RAW interpretation, you are percieving the image as a whole, not tracking a particular point in that image area, but that is a very legalistic interpretation of the rules and using them to let it work like that makes sense.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

This is elegant. I am also intrigued by the mind scan variant.

 

Tracking Device: Mind Scan 5d6 (Machine class of minds), +8 ECV, Sense Affected As Another Sense (Radio; +0), Cumulative (60 points; +3/4) (72 Active Points); OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Neither Character nor Target Can Attack Through Link (-1), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense (Sight; -1/2), Can Only Locate Coded Bugs (-1/2), Maximum Effect EGO +10 (Direction and Distance; -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4): 15 Points.

 

Coded Tracking Bug: Penalty Skill Levels: +2 vs. Size/Quantity Modifiers with with OECV to Locate (6 Active Points); Bug (Must Be Placed On Target To Track; -1), IIF Fragile (-1/2): 2 points.

[psyber624]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I like that build but I do not think that the Bug itself is a Focus. It messes with the way the concept of focus works. You are stating that it gives the user of the tracking device +2 to the roll, but if it is a focus then by the rules the fact that they do not have the bug means they do not get the bonus. This is something I have seen several times. Not all "items" are foci. This power cannot be "removed" from the person using it by using the focus rules (it can be removed from the target, but that is very different). Of course you can fudge the focus rules in your games to make something like this work if you wish but it is definitely not RAW.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

Here is a link to a post from a similar thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/73241-A-Police-Scanner?p=1848870#post1848870

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

I like that build but I do not think that the Bug itself is a Focus. It messes with the way the concept of focus works. You are stating that it gives the user of the tracking device +2 to the roll' date=' but if it is a focus then by the rules the fact that they do not have the bug means they do not get the bonus. This is something I have seen several times. Not all "items" are foci. This power cannot be "removed" from the person using it by using the focus rules (it can be removed from the target, but that is very different). Of course you can fudge the focus rules in your games to make something like this work if you wish but it is definitely not RAW.[/quote']

 

Actually, it messes with the way your concept of 'Focus' works. The Focus Limitation does not specify that the individual must possess the item; it simply states that benefit from the item is applied to the character. This dichotomy is stated most readily by the following:

 

An Accessible Focus is one that’s easily taken away from the character, or of whose benefit the character can easily be deprived.

 

The RAW is somewhat fuzzy on whether or not a person has to have a focus 'in hand'. What is notable is that deprivation of the benefits of the power are dependent upon, well, control of the focus. The version of a bug in FREd uses a Focus:

 

Throwable Tracking Bug: Images to Radio Group, +4 to PER Rolls, Increased Size (32” radius; +1¼), Usable As Attack (allows character to “stick” the Image to a target; +1), Range Based On STR (+¼),1 Continuing Recoverable Charge lasting 1 Week (stops functioning if it gets wet or experiences severe radio interference; +1) (76 Active Points); IAF (-½), Set Effect (detectable signal; -1), Image Only Perceivable On Special Radio Frequencies (-0). Total cost: 30 points.

 

The implication here is that the Focus is thrown or stuck to a target, and though that throwing physically removes the Focus from the possession of the character, the benefit is applicable to the character - or, similarly, that it is the Focus itself that is being detected (which is true, and which concept the Mind Scan power build also uses). The Focus, Inobvious though it is, can be simply picked off and tossed away (or destroyed), and though the character can still find the Focus, because it has been removed from the target its benefit (to wit, finding the target) is no longer applicable.

 

This build, of course, depends on the rules defining the advantage/disadvantage of seeing something of great size from a distance to work, and still requires your radio-perception power - possibly with Telescopic at some several levels. Considering the example above, which is a removable and recoverable bug, i.e. Focus, we should alter the Mind Scan power build to read as follows:

 

Tracking Unit: Mind Scan 5d6 (Machine class of minds), +8 ECV, Sense Affected As Another Sense (Radio; +0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Cumulative (60 points; +3/4), One Way Link (+1) (133 Active Points); OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Location Only (-1), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense Sight (-1/2), Can Only Locate Coded Tracking Bugs Below (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4): 29 Points

 

Coded Tracking Bug: Penalty Skill Levels: +2 vs. Size/Qty Modifiers with OECV to Locate, Usable As Attack (+1) (12 Active Points); IAF Fragile (-3/4), 8 clips of 1 Recoverable Charge (-1/2): 5 Points

 

I might suggest that the penalty to only locate coded tracking bugs might be worth more, since by dropping that disad for only 4 points it could simply locate any electronic emission/"brain" ... such as their cell phone or computer.

[Armitage]

Re: Tracking Bugs

 

With regards to the area, I've often thought of it as filling the radius with the Radio equivalent of arrows floating in the air, all pointing toward the source of the Image.

You could use a Sight Image to create a series of signs that say "Hey, he's over here!", so why not Radio.