Are all Superheroes OIHID?

[Spence]

There are many reasons to use OIAID.  While some can be aimed at specific focus concepts or such, I use the character concept to determine if OIAID is appropriate. 

 

Secret IDs are the most frequent users, but regardless of the reason I emphasize that the affected powers are truly unavailable when not in the appropriate identity.   I also give a sharp eye to their overall concept for internal logic.  If Power A is OIAID, then why is Power B not OIAID?

 

I never liked blatant munchkinism so I generally require so sort of internal consistency from players.  "No you can't apply OIAID to 3 out of your 7 fire based powers just to reduce their costs.  If you can't use your Flame Blast in Secret ID, there is no internal logic to support your Flame Shield being completely unaffected."   Unless of course they can come up with an In Concept reason....

 

Note! I did not say it can't be done.  But I do say that each character should have some kind of internal reason for why they can do what they do. 

[Greywind]

OIHID simulates either a focus that can't be removed, or an alternate identity.

 

Thor's Hammer could be built as a OIHID (with Gestures) because no one else can use it, nor take it away.  He can only be prevented from using it.

 

Beta Ray Bill

Steve Rogers

Kal-El

 

Those are only three others that have lifted Mjolnir. I'm sure there are others.

[Cassandra]

Beta Ray Bill

Steve Rogers

Kal-El

 

Those are only three others that have lifted Mjolnir. I'm sure there are others.

 

Point taken.

[esampson]

Beta Ray Bill

Steve Rogers

Kal-El

 

Those are only three others that have lifted Mjolnir. I'm sure there are others.

But those are highly unusual cases that are so rare that they are basically "-0" limitations. The number of occasions where someone else has been able to grab or prevent Thor from using his hammer are so limited that you couldn't really justify an OAF or OIF limitation (though when it is a walking stick that's a different case).

 

In 6E inaccesible foci can be taken away from an unconscious or restrained character in a turn. This is one of the reasons why Tony Stark's armor doesn't work well as OIF (though it is often done that way). Even excluding the 'time dilation' effects that normally occur in Champions (I can completely change my clothes in 3 seconds?) in the comic books there have historically been safeguards that have prevented people from simply removing his armor and while ultimately a determined villain could probably come up with a way to do it it would take way more time than a turn for most.

 

So I would personally say that those rare occasions where someone else manages to use Thor's hammer or are able to prevent it from returning to him are uncommon enough that they probably fall more under the rules of 'special effects' than full limitations (as in, this is the special effect of why my hammer isn't a normal focus and why I don't have a recoverable charge when I throw it).

[Greywind]

Except that Thor throwing his hammer, or dropping it for some reason, and being kept from getting his hands back on it caused him to revert to Donald Blake, was a fairly common schtick for the longest time in his early career (like into the 80's).

[Zeropoint]

 

Beta Ray Bill

Steve Rogers

Kal-El

 

Those are only three others that have lifted Mjolnir. I'm sure there are others.

 

And some random paramedic.

[massey]

Well, you're really getting into philosophy of character design here.  It's absolutely possible for you to build a lot of characters with OIHID representing their secret identity.  The question is how does it function in your campaign world?

 

I've been tinkering with a Pre-Crisis Superman writeup that uses OIHID for a lot of his powers.  I used the fact that Superman of that era had wild swings in powers (caused by inconsistent writing) that wouldn't be properly represented by the standard 250 Strength, 100 PD/ED version that I saw so many years ago.  Sometimes Supes doesn't even have his hair messed up by a nuclear bomb, and sometimes he gets kicked by a horse and knocked silly.  As a result, I built Superman to function at different levels.

 

The first tier has his "Clark" superpowers that he has on all the time.  Clark is crossing the street, not paying attention, and gets hit by a car, he's still got a 50 STR and 30 defense.  The front of the car is smashed, he looks around with a puzzled look on his face, and ducks out of there.  There's no limitation on these powers.  They're active all the time and he uses them without really thinking about it (this is "zoned out on the couch" Superman).  The second tier requires a conscious effort.  These powers don't receive a limitation either (a -0 perhaps).  They aren't active all the time, but there's nothing Clark needs to do to use them other than use them.  His STR jumps up to 75 and his defenses go up to 40 just by deciding he wants to use his STR and he doesn't want to be hurt.  However Superman is also inherently lazy and unless he's in some sort of encounter where he thinks he'll need those abilities, he very quickly relaxes right back down to the first tier (this is why it's so easy to hit Superman - he's usually standing there with his default 5 DCV because he's not using his super-dex).  The second tier has everything that he traditionally uses in Clark mode.  He's got invisible heat vision, limited superspeed,etc.

 

The third tier has a 250 point multipower of different powers and combinations of powers.  It gets OIHID.  This is because these are powers that he never ever uses while he's Clark.  He just doesn't.  He's not going to be mind controlled or forced to use his powers because it's not genre appropriate.  There are lots of times when Clark could theoretically use his full powers and doesn't.  He has to be Superman to use them, because that's how he's written.  In that instance, I don't have a problem with a psychological OIHID limitation.

 

People don't have to agree with that style of writeup.  I was exploring it as a concept to see how it functioned.  I've previously done a Batman and Robin writeup where they were one character - Robin was a street level hero who would get captured by the villains and then would activate his Summon Batman power.  Batman then shows up and saves the day.  It represents a particular style of comic very well.  Whether that's something people want to play in a game is a different matter.  At any rate, if used appropriately I think OIHID can work very well for a lot of characters.

[esampson]

I like the core concept that you have, mainly that Superman's powers fluctuated a bit depending on how much attention he was spending, but I would still stay away from OIAID. As has been stated it isn't a matter of 'doesn't use' or 'won't use' the power in normal ID. It's a matter of 'cannot use'. Even if it were a psychological limitation that couldn't be overcome with an ego roll the character could use their power if the were being mind controlled with a high enough roll.

 

That said, it is mostly a matter of semantics. You could easily assign a -1/4 Limited Power limitation to say 'will never voluntarily use power while not in costume' or something to the effect which gives you the same point total as OIAID. However, semantics do on rare occasions wind up being important.

[kahuna's bro]

there have been instances of clark using his powers in secret

[massey]

there have been instances of clark using his powers in secret

 

Yeah, certain powers.  Certain ones he doesn't.  That's kind of the point.  If he's on an airplane and it's crashing, Clark changes into Superman, flies around outside, and lifts the plane.  He doesn't go to the bathroom in his Clark Kent disguise and push up on the ceiling.  Or dig his fingers into the wall next to his window seat and lift from there.

[gbai1471]

Hello Cassandra,

                          From reading everyone's posts to your Atom topic, and the follow ups. If your character build uses the suit as the generating force of the characters powers then that could be built as a focus. Characters like Captain Marvel (Shazam) or Iron Man could use OIHID, as they do not have any powers in their normal identities, and there are requirements to them suiting up. Tony Stark, has to put on the suit which is not instant change, and could take a round to do, and Captain Marvel has to call out Shazam for his power to activate his OIHID, but both of these transformations to their hero ID can be thwarted, a little used regulation for people taking the limitation for their characters. Shazam, by covering his mouth so he can't speak, or attacking Tony before suit up is complete. Those are the fuller limits to OIHID.

You could decide to use the suit as a focus and determine if it's got limitations? or if the powers come after he suits up, maybe the simplest build option for you is to simply 'Link" the powers to the suit form?

Just a thought. 

[esampson]

. . .You could decide to use the suit as a focus and determine if it's got limitations? or if the powers come after he suits up, maybe the simplest build option for you is to simply 'Link" the powers to the suit form?

Just a thought. 

Actually, what you could do is simply take both the OIF limitation as well as the OIAID limitation. There's nothing that directly says that the two limitations are mutually exclusive. 

 

Examples of Obvious foci that could still be used without changing into alternate identity would include things such as guns or knives the character may have hidden on their person, wrist blasters that they keep covered up with long sleeves, or amulets that they have to pull out in order to use. In all those cases the focus needs to be visible when it is being used (an amulet that can be used while it is being worn underneath a shirt is Inobvious, at least in most cases) but using them doesn't necessitate a complete costume change.

 

On the other hand something like a suit of armor like Iron Man's current suits might be too big to hide underneath normal clothing. You might get into some funny grey areas with things like the ability to throw an oversized overcoat over the armor but by and large that character can't just walk down the street in their armored suit without causing a lot of attention.

 

Of course that might not work for all campaigns because of interpretations. The exact definition of 'Obvious' isn't completely nailed down. Some GMs might rule that anything obvious focus that provides defense cannot be hidden underneath normal clothing. This would include things like a 'bullet proof' costume. Others might be a bit more flexible and allow an OIF costume to be concealed beneath street clothing (the costumes properties being obvious when people can examine the character).

[Hyper-Man]

Actually, what you could do is simply take both the OIF limitation as well as the OIAID limitation. There's nothing that directly says that the two limitations are mutually exclusive. 

....

 

Ahem...

 

From 6e1 page 387 under the description of OIAID:

 

A power usually cannot take both OIAID and a Focus Limitation. However, you can use OIAID to simulate characters who seem to have a Focus, but somehow never lose it. For example, the powered armor character described above never seems to lose his suit for long or have it taken away from him while he’s wearing it. Therefore, it isn’t really a Focus — if he bought the armor as a Focus, he could lose it. Instead, his armor is better defined as a special effect of the OIAID Limitation.

[esampson]

Ahem...

 

From 6e1 page 387 under the description of OIAID:

 

A power usually cannot take both OIAID and a Focus Limitation. However, you can use OIAID to simulate characters who seem to have a Focus, but somehow never lose it. For example, the powered armor character described above never seems to lose his suit for long or have it taken away from him while he’s wearing it. Therefore, it isn’t really a Focus — if he bought the armor as a Focus, he could lose it. Instead, his armor is better defined as a special effect of the OIAID Limitation.

Whoops. My bad. In previous editions it was legitimate to take both. Even as it sits I'm not 100% sold that it is never appropriate (though certainly as it now sits the RAW forbid it), just that in the vast majority of cases it is probably inappropriate.

 

Of course in many, many ways the OIAID limitation itself is now superseded by Multiform. In the past I was not a very big fan of Multiform because I thought it was an overly cumbersome way of handling OIAID, but nowadays I have become much more sold on its usefulness.

[Greywind]

It's been that way for a while.

[Hyper-Man]

Whoops. My bad. In previous editions it was legitimate to take both.

 

....

 

 

ahem....

 

from Hero System 4e page 110:

 

ONLY IN HERO ID

This Limitation indicates a Power that can only be used while the character is in his heroic identity. Obviously, this can only be used for characters that maintain two distinct identities — it is commonly used by superheroes who maintain a secret identity. There is usually some difficulty in switching forms, unless the character bought the Instant Change Power. Only in Hero ID cannot usually be bought in addition to a Focus Limitation. It is not recommended for heroic campaigns.

 

Example: Norse-Storm-Hammer-God has two identities: one as a wimpy normal, and one as a powerful God of Thunder. He buys his Powers (and many of his Characteristics) with this Limitation; while he’s a normal he cannot use them.

 

Only in Hero ID can also be used to simulate characters who seem to have a Focus, but somehow never lose it. For example, a character could have a powered armor suit that never gets taken away when the character has it on. This is not really a Focus, since if the character bought the Focus Limitation, he could lose the armor. Instead, the character should buy his Powers with the Limitation “Only in Hero ID”.

• Only in Hero ID Limitation: -1/4 .