How would you simulate cybernetics for 6E champions

[captainphenixcity]

Say I wanted to make a champions character based off of the shadowrun game - the street samurai. How would I simulate having cybernetic arms or other parts of the body?

[Greywind]

What do the cybernetic arms do?

[Kraven Kor]

The thread for my Cybernetic Super-Soldier "Hardcase" might have some useful info; maybe?  

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/88024-critique-a-character-hardcase-cyborg-super-soldier/

 

Basically, Cybernetics don't end up with much in the way of limitations, is the final verdict.  Your GM may or may not allow some of the things I did on this character; but Hardcase is very similar to Street Samurai, just at the super-heroic level.  

 

A cyberpunk street sam would probably have far lower strength, defenses, and none of the built in energy weapons.  

[Christopher]

In general you will be hard pressed getting any limitation value for the things being Cybernetic in nature. For all intents Cybernetic based abilities work just like "Alien DNA under Yellow Sun" abilities.

 

In Shadowrun cybernetic at least has a case for Restrainable (-1/4), because everything is conencted to the matrix wich makes them vulnerable to beign hacked. But in superheroic games not many foes will have the ability to hack technology.

I can see a case for a "Affected as Machine Class of mind" Complication (if your game works with Mind Classes, this one would be in addition to the normal human minds class).

I had an idea for a Full Cyborg Character and one possible limitation I thought about was "Does not works in strong magnoetic fields" Limitation on several powers, even some Characteristics. The Special Effect was that the mind/machine interface was not working properly when subjected to strong magentic fields - it had to slow down transmission speed, thus disabling all more advanced combat abilities.

 

Always keep one thing in mind in superheroic games: Putting limitations on anything means asking the GM to make it a problem.

[captainphenixcity]

Wouldn't it be similar as creating a automaton with limitations that reflect the human or alien side that is still living?

[Kraven Kor]

Wouldn't it be similar as creating a automaton with limitations that reflect the human or alien side that is still living?

 

Not really.

 

I mean, you could build a character with Automaton powers, sure; but most people would not recommend it and most GM's won't allow it.

 

Look at some of our cinematic or literary "cyborgs" to base things off of:

 

Does a "cyborg" bleed?  Can it be stunned, or knocked out?  Is it a human mind with cybernetic gizmos, or wholly a computer mind?  Good questions to ask, but for the sake of gameplay, you probably want your Cyborg PC to not be an automaton due to the necessity of using killing attacks to even inconvenience said character.  In other words, using some of the automaton stuff for a PC cyborg is likely going to have unforeseen consequences, and not just for the person playing the cyborg.

[Tasha]

Say I wanted to make a champions character based off of the shadowrun game - the street samurai. How would I simulate having cybernetic arms or other parts of the body?

For Hero Cybernetic arms aren't really any different from regular arms for most things. So just having extra strength probably +5 Str which represents a doubling in lifting capacity. If the arms are armored and the SS has a blocking program they might have Missile Deflection.

 

I would also highly recommend the Cyberpunk/Anime source book Kazei 5 there are tons of Cyberwear pieces written up in there and how to run a cyberpunk game from Street level to superheroic over the top anime Cyberpunk crazyness.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/90-kazei-5-bookpdf/

[lou_tennant]

I think you build the cybernetics with the appropriate limitations, like magnetic fields. 

 

I would also suggest that you need to consider what happens when the metal bits take damage, if both arms are fully cybernetic then any damage (through defenses) to locations 7 & 8 will not be healed with normal REC or even a magical 'Heal'.  They have to be repaired - how easy is it to get the materials, how long does it take. You might need to assign a BODY stat to each arm and if half is taken then perhaps the arm only partially functions, once it is one then the arm is broken - perhaps beyond repair.

 

If there are other elements built into the arms - like scanners, or energy projectors - then these systems would also suffer if the arm is badly damaged.

 

If the arms do not feedback to the central biological nerve system then 'in theory' the STUN damage is not relevant - hence the automaton suggestion, one could argue that the arms at least are effectively automaton.

 

I realise in a Superheroic game that you don't (generally) use hit locations, but in this instance you might need to.

 

 

I am actually working on converting ICE's Cyberspace to work under HERO5e. I have a copy of CyberHERO, which is 4e and I think has quite a few issues - hence not using it straight (ignoring the version).

 

This includes re working the character generation to keep some of the feeling of the 'random' element, but with a lot more control for the player.

 

As part of this I have got to rework the cybernetics - so of which I have done in part at least - so I have been trying to think how it would work..  I have also reworked the suggested conversion (at back of CyberHERO) from Cyberspace to HERO.

 

 

Whilst this won't be running alongside the likes of a 'Superman' or 'Spiderman' type of Superhero - it is more gritty and I will be making use of some Dark Champions and Star HERO bits to get the feel I am after.

[lou_tennant]

I would also highly recommend the Cyberpunk/Anime source book Kazei 5 there are tons of Cyberwear pieces written up in there and how to run a cyberpunk game from Street level to superheroic over the top anime Cyberpunk crazyness.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/90-kazei-5-bookpdf/

 

I shall check out the PDF.

[captainphenixcity]

Here is a example that would have different modifiers applied to each -- Will Smiths character in the movie I Robot -- Will Smiths character in the movie had all of his arm and a few ribs including I think a lung but he didn't feel pain on those extremities. He was able to hide the fact that they were artificial and what im looking at to make a truly cybernetic package wouldn't it make sense to make it a compound power? I am still kinda new to 6E played 4E years ago but a lot has changed.

[Christopher]

If you do not take a Limitation, a Complication or a Power for stuff to be different, a Cyborg Character, a Robot Character, a Alien Character and a baseline human Character behave absolutely the same, have absolutely the same Characteristics and follow absolutely the same rules.

 

How the bleeding to death rule works for a Robot or Cyborg might have a different special effect. For example it could be "open wires under power causing internal damage, the cooling systems beign ruptured and thus parts overheating, the battery having a leak" or a dozen other technobabble explanations that cause him to loose BODY when under 0 until he is stabilised.

How his extra STR works might have a different Special Effect (Servo Motors isntead of superdense musculature).

But they still work the same.

He still heals the same.

He can still be stunned, knocked out and killed the same.

 

And actually you should avoid trying to alter those rules. It might be "logical" to take "Takes no STUN" at the 60 point level. But it will make the whole thing a ton harder to play. The GM has to think of ways to disable your Character every time the team is knocked out. Without killing him.

 

As I see it both Robocop and the Terminater have been knocked out from STUN damage plenty of times in their Source Material. It might have had a different special effect, but it still works the same.

Why do you think they still shoot on Superman/Robotcop/Terminator with Handguns? Of course they cannot do body damage (those guys are just to high defense for that, propably outright bricks). But they might still do STUN damage.

 

You could just take one of Hypermans Superman Writeups, says he is the "robot double of Superman" in the Background, not change a single point of powers, limitations, complciations, etc. and just play "the robot double of Superman".

Nothing has to be different between those two. It can be different, but nothing forces that. And most GM's would actually be happy if nothing is different between those two.

[Kraven Kor]

Nothing has to be different between those two. It can be different, but nothing forces that. And most GM's would actually be happy if nothing is different between those two.

 

Nah, it's boring to kill two player characters with the same dirty trick.  The second one has to think he has some chance once the first drops, or there is no sport.  

[captainphenixcity]

Thank you all for your information regarding cyborgs and cybernetics it was all useful

[NuSoardGraphite]

This is how I deal with Cybernetics:

 

1: The limitation "Restrainable" is utilized to represent that some cybernetics can be hacked and others can be disrupted via EMP or powerful Electrical attacks.  I use this at the -1/2 level because it is a very well known and recognized weakness of cybernetic systems, so if someone is recognized as having Cybernetics, it's easy enough for their enemies to employ systems to disrupt them. Those cybernetic parts that can be neither hacked, nor electromagnetically disrupted, such as a metal endoskeleton, a ballistic skinweave and other such enhancements, do not receive this limitation.

 

2: Most cybernetics take the limitation: Does not heal, must be repaired (-1/2).  This of course represents that cybernetics are electronic/mechanical in nature and do not naturally heal with the body, but must be repaired or replaced by a cyberdoc.  This limitation does not apply to those systems that are considered biological in nature such as certain muscular enhancements or super-organs and whatnot. (generally known as Bio-ware)

 

3: All cybernetic systems take the Side Effect limitation.  The total active points worth of Cybernetics are added together to determine the strength of the Side Effect.  The Side Effect itself is written up as a Mind Control which is activated at least once per day (when the Cyborg awakens to start their day) though it can be activated during times of stress or duress.  The Mind Control roll is compared to the cyborg's EGO and depending on effect, generally suppresses the cyborgs emotions (most especially empathy with life) with the possibility of becoming temporarily psychotic.  This is responsible for the phenomenon known as "Cyberpsychosis", and accounts for the tendency for heavily cybered individuals to go bonkers and perform random mass murder or other nonsensical acts of weirdness.  This can be mitigated through chemical and psychiatric therapies (adds Mental Defense vs the Mind Control...but the defense wears off if the meds aren't kept up with).  The quality of the cyberware determines the level of the side effect and how much of the Active Points of that particular cybersystem is added to the Side Effect. High quality= Minor SE, Normal quality = Major SE and poor quality = Extreme SE.  Modifiers include Side Effect Occurs automatically (x2 value) since the Side Effect is basically always active and could be activated at any point the GM decrees as reasonable.

 

All told, a Cybersystem of Normal quality with all of the requisite limitations, have a total of -2 applied.

 

Cybersystems that affect only a single limb or limited areas of the body take the limited coverage limitation of course.

[lou_tennant]

@NuSoardGraphite, this is generally how I have been working with regards to cyber/bio-ware.  From memory it is close to the suggestions in CyberHERO (4th Ed).