MistWing Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 And I'm back... with yet another question. This time regarding Invisibility and Danger Sense. Assume I have Danger Sense so that I can sense danger even if it's not detectable by any of my other senses. My opponent has Invisibility to Danger Sense. How to I devise a Danger Sense that can detect through this invisibility. Normally, I would use a Spacial Awareness or a special Detect to do this, but I don't see how I can do this in this case. Thanks again MistWing SilverTail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Danger Sense Question Technically, you can't. Danger Sense is Danger Sense, and if someone is Invisible to it, Danger Sense can't detect them. Of course, the cool thing about Talents is each one shows you how it was built using Powers. You could always built a different Detect, roughtly identical to Danger Sense, but list the thing detected as "dange from opponents invisible to Dange Sense." Define the sense as being in the same sense group as the character's Danger Sense (even it it's unique). Buy this in addition to the character's normal Danger Sense. Poof! Your character can now sense danger from opponents that are invisible to Danger Sense (but not opponents that are invisible to the entire Danger Sense Sense Group; if someone's gonna go that far, they've probably already spent enough points on other things that Danger Sense isn't an issue any more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by MistWing And I'm back... with yet another question. This time regarding Invisibility and Danger Sense. Assume I have Danger Sense so that I can sense danger even if it's not detectable by any of my other senses. My opponent has Invisibility to Danger Sense. How to I devise a Danger Sense that can detect through this invisibility. Normally, I would use a Spacial Awareness or a special Detect to do this, but I don't see how I can do this in this case. Thanks again MistWing SilverTail I wouldn't _allow_ "Invisible to Danger Sense." Of course, I would always insist on Danger Sense being defined in some way, which would place it within some kind of sense group (IMO, there is no "Danger Sense Sense Group"). Invisiblility to THAT sense group would make them invisible to the Danger Sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hmmm, you could always buy Detect Invisibility to Danger Sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 And then the other character could buy Invisibility to Detect Invisibility to Danger Sense. And then... **bangs head on desk repeatedly** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by Kristopher I wouldn't _allow_ "Invisible to Danger Sense." Of course, I would always insist on Danger Sense being defined in some way, which would place it within some kind of sense group (IMO, there is no "Danger Sense Sense Group"). Invisiblility to THAT sense group would make them invisible to the Danger Sense. Two questions then: How would you define Spiderman's DS? I can't think of what Sense Group it would go into. How would you define Venom's invisibility to that DS? He doesn't seem to be invisible to anything else except Spidey's DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by Bartman Two questions then: How would you define Spiderman's DS? I can't think of what Sense Group it would go into. How would you define Venom's invisibility to that DS? He doesn't seem to be invisible to anything else except Spidey's DS. I'd define it as the writers wanting to get past that damn Danger Sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by Talon I'd define it as the writers wanting to get past that damn Danger Sense. And I can't say that I would blame them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I've never been impressed by the Spidey-Sense. There's no mechanism, it just "is". Venom, I guess you can explain that with Venom's symbiotic nature. It was attached to Spidey for a while, it adapted to not set off his...ugh...danger sense all the time, or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I would base any determination of how to handle this off of SFX. How does the Danger Sense work? How does the Invisibility to Danger Sense work? Similar in fashion to Desol vs Affects Desol. For example, let's say that one character's form of DS is "Precognition" - he literally sees into the future. He faces Nowhere Man, whose Invisibility and Invisibilty to Danger Sense is all based on the fact that he doesn't exist in this dimension, all that happens is he "pokes through" when he needs to (please ignore/set aside all the issues this may raise). Precog Man cannot "see" Nowhere Man OR his Invisible nature EXCEPT for those moments he punches through. So I would rule that his DS would work only on that which immediately could affect him, that which can be observed in the areas he can see into the future. If he defined his DS at the nebulous "sense general danger" levels, he might get glimpses based on the events of the future, but wouldn't realize anything based on what Nowhere Man does in his other dimension. On the other hand, BatClone has DS based on his incredible observational skills. He can deduce danger from any number of oddball hints that to most people, even highly perceptive ones, would not get. He runs up against Nowhere Man. Keeping to our example above and assuming Nowhere Man needs no "setup" to pop into an area from his other dimension, BatClone's DS is mostly useless. He can't tell there's an ambush waiting because there's no clue, Nowhere Man is just going to magically appear. Now, let's say BatClone gets sick of being surprised by Nowhere Man and wants to build something to detect those sorts of dangers. He would build a "Detect ExtraDimensional Activity" or "See Future" or "Jump to the Past a Few Seconds" device of some sort that would defeat Nowhere Man's Invisibility to DS based on being in another dimension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by Bartman How would you define Venom's invisibility to that DS? He doesn't seem to be invisible to anything else except Spidey's DS. Writer's caveat - and a wheenie one at that. The Green Goblin's gas grenades that deadened it temporarily were a better example, and more reasonable, because they were designed to stop spider sense, not the entire concept of danger sense. I think "invisibility danger sense" is a dink power to be perfectly, candid. What is the SFX? How does it work? Can it affect Danger Sense that's cosmic based, magic based, sidey sense based, and intuition based as a group? Its way to broad. A supress versus a specific SFX of danger sense, such as "spider sense," or even invisibility versus "spider sense," I could foresee. Versus "Danger Sense?" No way!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 D-Man and Zornwill covered my thoughts on the subject with more depth than I gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher D-Man and Zornwill covered my thoughts on the subject with more depth than I gave. Yeah but you made me focus on the SFX path, so thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Spidey? I have always thought of Spidey's danger sense as being part of the mental group. And by extension, since the venom symbiote was part of him for a while, the danger sense could not detect it as being a danger or it would never stop going off. - Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Danger Sense Question Originally posted by D-Man I think "invisibility danger sense" is a dink power to be perfectly, candid. What is the SFX? How does it work? Can it affect Danger Sense that's cosmic based, magic based, sidey sense based, and intuition based as a group? Its way to broad. A supress versus a specific SFX of danger sense, such as "spider sense," or even invisibility versus "spider sense," I could foresee. Versus "Danger Sense?" No way!!! I can think of at least one special effect for which it makes perfect sense ... For the "psychic invisibility" sort of character, ala The Shadow, with the ability to cloud the minds of men. This sort of invisibility would work by shutting off a viewer's awareness of the target. Whatever the special effect of the Danger Sense, presumably it would somehow be processed via the brain. The same sort of effect could make sense for a Suppress vs. different senses, with the special effect being that the attacker somehow affected the sensory processing areas of the target's brain. I agree that "Invisibility to Danger Sense" doesn't make a whit of sense for a chameleon/Predator/Sue Richards sort of character, though. But be careful about dismissing a concept out of hand. In one campaign long ago, we often went up against an assassin with psionic invisibility, which covered pretty much all sense groups other than touch (and also didn't affect electronic sensors or people with a certain level of Mental Defense). It made him very scary, but it made perfect sesne for that character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 *raps loudly on podium* point of order! point of order! Invisibility to Danger Sense does not STOP Danger Sense...it reduces the PER rolls! So BatClone still has his chance (albeit small) to notice "something out of the ordinary" about the area, provided he can make an apporpriate penalized PER roll. Precog also has the same advantage, but Precog may not stand a chance at the same level as BatClone, since BatClone has an abnormally high PER roll. I would expect Precog to have Clairsentience, and thus be aware that something out of the ordinairy is going on anyway. (I can't see anything past next Tuesday...does that mean... ???) Spidey has an ABNORMALLY high Danger Sense roll...he constantly makes it by half it seems...a good schtick in some games. It also works for speedsters with hyped reflexes, they have mor etime top figure out what is going on than the rest of the mere mortals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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