TK SFX: how to make team fly

[wick]

Using 5th Ed rules:

 

I am working on a Telekinetic character and I am trying to determine the best way to simulate the ability to make a group of allies fly.

 

As part of the Elemental control I gave myself flight But I want to also be able to pick up a few team mates ( say up to 4 others). I want to simulate how Marvell's Jean Grey, when she was in X-Factor,  would often use her TK to fly her teammates around.   I  did look up write ups for Jean Grey but the writers seemed to have missed this use of her power in their write ups, at least as far as I can tell.

 

Some thoughts on how to accomplish this:

- Just fly myself and grab ally using my TK , holding ally as I fly. May need to be able to grab multiple people.

- Buy Flight with advantage useable on others. Problem is that I only want to control the flight, they don't get to steer because I am simulating lifting them not giving them the ability to fly. I could take useable as attack but that seems awkward. I would definitely limit it to only willing subjects. 

-An area of affect advantage seems to fit  since the effect I am looking for was always in close proximity to the TK character. Would I need to also use "Useable as attack" or would I be able to grant flight to others with an area of effect?

-Since the builds may get too steep in cost I may want to split up the powers into :

A.) Flight for myself with fewer advantages. When flying solo I can fly faster but as a group it is slower (due to compensating for the added advantages and keeping Active points down).

B.) Add another flight power to my EC that deals with flying the group which may have advantages of Useable on others or area of effect.

 

Questions:

-Your thoughts?

-If you take a non-attack power with area of effect, will it work or do I need to also take "Useable as attack" as well to make it an attack power first?  

 

 

[Hyper-Man]

You might find this post from this old thread interesting.  We pretty much hashed out all the possibilities of flight with passengers using HERO 5e.

 

from:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/49294-flight-with-passengers-whats-the-best-way/?p=1211917

 

Re: Flight with Passengers - What's the Best Way?



sure,

Examples of Variable Target "Flight":

1) Telekinesis (25 STR), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Unlimited # of unwilling targets.] - END=7

1a) Flight 5", Position Shift* (* or any other method to get base power = to 15 active points), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (x8 maximum weight per inanimate target; +1 3/4), Area Of Effect (20" Radius; +1 1/2), Selective (+1/4) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Maximum of 8 unwilling targets. AOE + Range only means that center of AOE can be something other than the power's owner] - END=7

2) Flight 10", Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1), Usable As Attack (x8 maximum weight per inanimate target; +1 3/4) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Maximum of 8 unwilling targets.] - END=7

3) Flight 15", Ranged (+1/2), Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Power can be SHARED among a maximum of 8 willing targets (including owner). ] - END=7

4) Flight 15", Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Power can be shared with 1 target (or granted to 2) within 5" radius simultaneously.] - END=7

5) Flight 25", Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Power can be shared with 1 target (or granted to 2) via touch* simultaneously. * Only required to initially grant power, once granted only line of sight is required to maintain.] - END=7

6) Flight 30", Usable By Other (+1/4) (75 Active Points)

[Notes: Power can be granted (but not used at same time) to 1 target via touch*. * Only required to initially grant power, once granted only line of sight is required to maintain.] - END=7


further notes:
END is paid by EVERY user in the case of "Usable By Other" and "Usable Simultaneously" but is only paid by the owner in the case of TK and "Usable As Attack".

[Hyper-Man]

It's worth noting that Telekinesis allows you to maintain a Grab from a previous Phase on one target and Grab another target.  You can also use Sweep to Grab Multiple targets in one Phase. It's a less accurate approach though.

 

Since you mentioned Marvel Girl I am curious to whether you believe her use of 'telekinesis to Grab a brick like the Hulk could be broken by him directly by his Strength (is she just grabbing him a with an invisible* version of a Green Lanterns big green hand)?  Is there something there to be resisted? If she's using the Telekinesis Power then by RAW (rules as written) Hulk could resist the TK Grab.

 

*I know the movies defined her TK as being invisible but was that always the case in the comics?

 

Storm has a more limited form of 'telekinesis' (the ability to move things at a distance) with her wind control powers.  The sfx of her power suggests that a target's STR should not figure into their ability to resist the wind that she generates (unless they are holding onto an 'anchor' of some sort).  Only their mass should affect whether or not her winds can lift them.  This sounds like a job for Telekinesis with the NDD Advantage but Steve Long has ruled that this is an illegal combination.  The alternative is then to combine Flight with UAA.  This makes sense since any combination of UAA (Usable As an Attack) requires that a defense be defined - just like NDD.

[Hyper-Man]

Here is an old Marvel-Girl inspired character I built years ago that you might enjoy.

 

I-Mind

 

Note, that her Mental Awareness would probably need to be upgraded in cost to work as originally intended.

[IndianaJoe3]

The big issue with TK (as opposed to Flight UBO) is that TK has no action/reaction - the, "passengers" don't automatically move along with the flyer. They have to be moved using the normal TK rules. This may complicate matters if the character can fly faster than he can move an object with TK.

[Hyper-Man]

Anything being held with TK moves with the character if they choose.

 

from the 5e FAQ (I saved a copy before the site was migrated):

 

Q:
Since Telekinesis won’t allow a character to grab hold of a flying character or vehicle and be “dragged along,” is it possible for a character with Telekinesis who can also fly to pick something (or someone) up and carry it along while he flies?

A:
Yes, just like a character with Flight can carry something in his arms as he flies. You should apply the standard rules for Encumbrance’s effect on movement (5E 250), unless the GM prefers to do otherwise based on special effects, common sense, and dramatic sense.

 

[Armitage]

Champions Powers has it as one of the options for the Telekinetic Flight power.

 

Basic power: Flight 24m. Total cost: 24 points.

 

Come On Along For The Ride: The character can also pick up some of his friends and bring them along with him. Buy as a naked Advantage Usable By Nearby (+1) (24 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -½).  Total cost 16 points; total cost of overall power 40 points.

[bigbywolfe]

Champions Powers has it as one of the options for the Telekinetic Flight power.

 

Basic power: Flight 24m. Total cost: 24 points.

 

Come On Along For The Ride: The character can also pick up some of his friends and bring them along with him. Buy as a naked Advantage Usable By Nearby (+1) (24 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -½).  Total cost 16 points; total cost of overall power 40 points.

5E's Usable by Others rules were really screwy and got streamlined in 6E.  

[wick]

Hyper man:

 

As far as I can recall Jean grey from X-Factor in the 80's/90's used TK as flight to carry her team and probably would use the regular TK grab on villains or to throw stuff.  In the comic her powers were visible but that may have been for the reader's benefit, because it was the same visual for when she used telepathy.  Interestingly enough in 5ed TK  is a standard power therefore has to be detectable by 3 senses including 1 targeting sense unless you take he invisible advantage. 

 

As far as the Hulk there was at least one comic where x-factor fought the Grey "Joe Fixit" Hulk. I will have to dig that up to see if he did an opposed strength check to brush it off.  I don't recall off hand any other TK grabs on bricks but there must have been some.

 

By the way thank you for the info on flying a group.  It looks like you it is not enough to just use Area of Effect with flight, you also need to have  useable on others/as attack/etc.. first.

 

Flight 10" , Useable as attack ( up to 4 people +1 1/2), Area of effect one hex and area doubled to include 6 surrounding hexes; Nonselective (+1/2), Reduced END (0 END +1/2)=70 active points

 

Unfortunately, there is not much I can do in the way of limitations that feels appropriate.  I could go with a smaller amount of reduced END or just pay the full END cost to use the power.   Making my flight cost 0 END is my way to help keep the END drain down  so I can use other abilities during a battle and not have to worry about having to land.

[Armitage]

5E's Usable by Others rules were really screwy and got streamlined in 6E.  

 

 

I had missed that this was for 5E.

 

The corresponding power from The UNTIL Superpowers Database was:

Come On Along For The Ride: The character can also pick up some of his friends and bring them along with him. Buy as a naked Advantage Usable Simultaneously (up to four people at once; +3/4) (18 Active Points); Recipients Must Remain Within 10” Of Character (-1/2). Total cost: 12 points.

[Conjureman]

I would just build this as TK with AOE and selective target.  As when someone is cooperating, they wouldn't resist it with STR but cooperate, I would rule that as long as you have enough TK STR to lift each person's weight (comparing your TK STR to individual mass, not to the cumulative mass of the team) (and 15 should accomplish this easily, unless Bad Fattitude is one of your teammates), you could carry the entire group.