Building a Heat Sink

[Christopher]

5) Heat or other meter that builds up so abilities can't be used without a cooldown - each ability used adds x to the meter and when it reaches y point, they can't be used.  The x fades at a certain rate when not used.

 

Its this last one that I am puzzled how to build in Hero.  Its sort of the opposite of Endurance, but its a classic computer gaming feature, from Mechwarrior to modern MMOGs.

Not the opposite of Endurance. It IS endurance.

Just instead of counting how much Endurance you have left, you count how much you have lost (how much "heat you have build up").

 

Play Star Wars the Old Republic. The "heat" mechanic of the Imperial bounty hunter is just Energy of the smugler, with an inverted display.

[build up Heat] = [Max Energy] - [Remainng Energy]

SWTOR has three energy mechanics:

Energy that is build up via attacks (Knight/Warrior)

Energy that rebuilds at a constant rate (Consular/Sorc)

Energy that rebuilds slower the fewer you have left (the remaining 4 classes)

The only differences are how they are displayed (a proper bar or "segments") and which value you display.

 

Mech warrior mechs are not limited by how much power the reactor can produce. But by how much heat you can dissipate.

They use an endurance reserve, just instead of simulating the Reactor it simulates the Heat Sinks.

 

 

About endurance reserve being an advantage in 6E: Well, it is.

It is a variant of "Costs no Endurance".

For all intents the power does not cost you endurance AND the AP cost stays normal. Just instead of having charges as limitation, you have more detailed tracking.

End Reserve is really just a variation of charges - 0 end, but with different limitations.

[Doc Democracy]

Christopher

 

I think you meant to say that "in some systems" heat sink is entirely synonymous with Endurance.  It does not have to be and there are solid cases for it not being.  

 

Of course, in HERO, not even END has to used to reflect Endurance, it is just most conveniently positioned to play that role.  :-)

 

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

I think heat sink becomes more interesting when you have an ability set built around a central power source and they all contribute to the heat generated and there is a limit on the players maxing out their abilities at all times because overuse might cause them to be unavailable.

 

It is indeed a limitation but one that should be shared across those using the same technologies.  Indeed, the heat sink might also be influenced by others using energy weapons in a simple attempt to overwhelm the heat sink...but that would also come down to design decisions.

[Christopher]

Christopher

 

I think you meant to say that "in some systems" heat sink is entirely synonymous with Endurance.  It does not have to be and there are solid cases for it not being.  

 

Of course, in HERO, not even END has to used to reflect Endurance, it is just most conveniently positioned to play that role.  :-)

 

 

Doc

In all systems - be it video game or tabletop - "heat sink" is synonimous to "regenerating power cell/source".

 

The few Star Trek FPS games out there gave the hand phaser a self regenerating energy cell, so you had unlimited ammo. Just limited DPS over short time.

Wich is absolutely the same thing (under different name) they did in mass effect 1, just for all weapons.

 

"Regenerating power" and "Heatsink that cools off" are one and the same underlying energy mechanic, only the way they are displayed is slightly different (energy loss rather then remaining energy).

 

And in hero the usual way to make a "regenerating power source" with this detail level and sharing across powers is the endurance reserve. Or just using plain endurance.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Right, depending on the build, some heat sinks may be

 

The difference between just using END and Heat Sink is that this would be for a given set of powers, not everything the character does in most cases.  In other words, your Mech has guns that use the reactor and build up heat, but electric motors to move with that do not, for example.  Or with a regular character, he might have normal abilities like strength and running that use END and a set of adrenaline based powers that builds up and can't be used past a certain point until he calms down again.  So its not just "using plain endurance," as it is a separate body of abilities.

 

So the heat sink is a separate system to keep track of power use, like charges.  The fact that it doesn't cost ordinary END is not an advantage by its very nature - it might be quite limiting, depending on how many uses it has before it shuts down.  If you can only use a small amount of powers before it requires cooling down, that's definitely worth a limitation, just as charges are.  If you can use it a long time without stopping, its probably worth an advantage.

 

In fact, I think that Scott Baker wrapped it up quite well in #22 above.

[SirViss]

Why would everything (for example) in the Mech run of the End Reserve (Heat Sinks)? The guns can run of the Heat Sinks while everything else that runs on the electric motor can be bought with Costs no END. As a side note, Movement powers for vehicles cost no END as a default. (6ed Vol.2 p.188)

 

After rereading some of the previous posts I would like to point out that there are few different factors that need to be taken into account before a Heat Sink system could be properly simulated to someone's satisfaction:

• what/how many systems will be employing the Heat Sinks?
• Does each system have its own Heat Sinks, and thus will "shutdown" and recover individually?
• Are only the Heat generating systems in danger of "shutdown" when the heat capacity is exceeded?
• Are the systems going to all generate the same amount of Heat?
• How quicky will the system(s) shutdown and quickly will it (they) bcome functionnal again?
• How granular you want heat production to be per system?

Depending on the scope of the systems (or group of systems) that is trying to be simulated, some of the conctructs above would better than others, but it would be a case-by-case basis. I think it is obvious that I like something based on an END Reserve, but if for example you are just trying to portray a handheld gun that fires a limited number of shots before overheating, than recoverable charges would work if you don`t mind only shooting a maximum of 8 time before cooldown is required. That would be a +0 advantage and would not alter the cost of the weapon.

 

The problem I have had was the implication behind this statement:

 

Yeah I kind of like the END reserve idea but it is basically paying for something that's limiting you which is a bit backward.

 

The fact that is limiting is not what I am questionning. Normal Characters are actually limited in what they do and how often they do it by the amount of END they have, so "normal" END is a limiting. What has to be look at is if the "Heat Sink" system that will be implemented is less limiting than the "normal" way of doing things. For example: on vehicles a weapon is still required to cost END as a default. Most of the times they are modified to use Charges. 16 charges is a +0 advantage. Or if you want a weapon with an unlimited sources of "power" you can by with Costs no END, and that`s a +1/2 advantage. If you compare the "Heat Sink" cost to "Costs no END" then you probably can buy a pretty good END Reserve with a decent REC for less points, thus it would technically more limiting.

 

In the end, I think if you want more constructive suggestions to any "Heat Sink" system constructs you will have to give a more narrowly focused example of what it is to be applied to.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Again, as I see it, this concept would end up being an advantage if it was more advantageous than just paying END, or a limitation if it is less so - sort of like how charges work.  Below a certain number, its less useful than paying END and limiting, so its given a limitation.  Above a certain number, its an advantage.

[Steve]

As I recall from my faded memories of Mechwarrior, building more heat sinks into a mech cost additional points/credits, so I see no reason to not have END Reserves serve a similar function.

 

You're essentially using up a resource, so you can just call it HEAT instead of END and use the END reserves as your heat sinks. You even get double the number of END Reserves for five extra points, so for ten points you have four END Reserves.

 

You could also give them extra REC that only works when you can dump heat quickly, like standing in a river.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Yeah best way is END reserve. END represents the heat and the REC is the Heat Sink. If the End ever reaches 0, heat build up is too intense and damage can occur (built as a side effect if the END Res hits zero)