Naked Advatage and Multipower

[Ninja-Bear]

I am curious as to the legality of buying a naked advatage that can affect any slot in a multipower? I bought an Autofire for my son's Bow multipower.

[Hyper-Man]

It's a judgement call:

 

From 6e1 page 315:

Other Rules
Generally, a character cannot purchase a naked Power Advantage or Adder that adds to any slot in a Power Framework, but this depends on the nature of the powers and special effects involved and the GM’s judgment regarding game balance, common sense, and dramatic sense. For example, a character with the “Quick Shot” naked Advantage described above who had a Multipower of different guns could apply the naked Advantage to any of those guns. On the other hand, an energy projector with the same Multipower, but no Focus Limitations, probably shouldn’t be allowed to do that, since there are no restrictions on the use of the naked Advantage.

 

HM

[Ninja-Bear]

Thanks HM!

[Sean Waters]

It's a judgement call:

 

From 6e1 page 315:

 

HM

 

...and this demonstrates a fundamental problem with the system to my mind:

 

1. This is the rule

2. It is OK to break it

 

We either don't need the rule or we need rules for breaking it, and common sense does not cut it.

 

What is special about a multipower of different guns that isn't special about any other multipower?

 

The simple answer is nothing: the rule is you can not have a naked advantage on MP slots, so you can't.  That may not make common sense to many but it makes sense for game balance, which is why the rule exists.

 

If you want autofire on your MP slots, buy autofire for the whole MP.

 

If you are going to exercise GM discretion, allow characters to switch off any advantage (they still have to pay full END cost and such), of house rule that a 5 point adder "Switch" lets you turn off advantages.

 

Naked Advantages only really make sense in heroic games where you are not paying for equipment and you want to make something you pick up work better than the manufacturer intended.

[Cantriped]

I am curious as to the legality of buying a naked advatage that can affect any slot in a multipower? I bought an Autofire for my son's Bow multipower.

I would say that it is legal in Champions Complete, but it is something of a grey area...

Power Framework's in general have a clause stating outside Powers can only add onto one of a Framework's Slots, but there is a strong implication that they are referring to actual Powers, as opposed to Independent Advantages (which are only "treated as Special Powers"). Their example being +6d6 Blast only applying to one 8d6 Blast slot of a power framework, not all of them.

 

In Champions Complete​ under "Group Independent Advantages" (CC 95) it states that you calculate the cost of an Independent Advantage which applies to "any one of a group of powers" by using the maximum APs the Independent Advantage can apply to. For example:

 

Piercing Shot:  Armor Piercing (+1/4) for up to 60 APs of Bow Powers (15 APs). Total Cost: 15 points

Note: This Game Element treated as an Instant Special Power which costs 1 END to use (regardless of whether the powers it applies to use charges, or cost Zero END).

 

The Piercing Shot power described above should be able to be applied to any slot of a 60 point multipower reserve of "Bow Powers".

 

 

...and this demonstrates a fundamental problem with the system to my mind:

 

1. This is the rule

2. It is OK to break it

This is one of the very minor reasons I prefer CC/FHC as rules sources. They omit all of the "At GM's Option" BS and give clear, and generally concise rulings on every topic discussed with the assumption that (like any table top RPG) everything is fundamentally at the GM's Option.

[Sean Waters]

I am curious as to the legality of buying a naked advatage that can affect any slot in a multipower? I bought an Autofire for my son's Bow multipower.

 

Is this a superheroic game: are you paying points for all your MP powers?  Is the Bow multipower built with charges?  What is the END cost of the powers in the MP?

[steriaca]

Is this a superheroic game: are you paying points for all your MP powers? Is the Bow multipower built with charges? What is the END cost of the powers in the MP?

I'm assuming that this is a heroic campaign, prehaps Fantasy Hero. I seen Pulp Hero characters who buy a naked Autofire on a 2d6 Killing Attack to repersent being able to rapidly shoot any small gun even if it is not an autofire gun originally.

[Hugh Neilson]

This is one of the very minor reasons I prefer CC/FHC as rules sources. They omit all of the "At GM's Option" BS and give clear, and generally concise rulings on every topic discussed with the assumption that (like any table top RPG) everything is fundamentally at the GM's Option.

This was not intended to change the rules. I recall Derek's point early on that the point was to only say "At the GM's option, you can violate the rules" once, not to remove the option for the GM to allow anything and everything already listed as "GMs Option" in the 6e rules.

[Cantriped]

This was not intended to change the rules. I recall Derek's point early on that the point was to only say "At the GM's option, you can violate the rules" once, not to remove the option for the GM to allow anything and everything already listed as "GMs Option" in the 6e rules.

I never said the omission of "At GM's Option" was intended to be a change to the rules; Champions Complete​, page 6, has an entire section titled "You Can Change Anything" which explains exactly that. Pathfinder has a similar section in its Core Rulebook as well. My point was that I prefer CC/FHC precisely because it doesn't contradict itself every few paragraphs by describing optional exceptions to the rules it just finished describing. The idea that we can change those rules at our whim (as GMs) is baked into the core principles of the game engine.

[Christopher R Taylor]

...and this demonstrates a fundamental problem with the system to my mind

 

I actually consider that a strength; the rules are a structure, then you can change things as you will as a GM based on situations and your campaign.  We have very early issues of The Dragon Magazine where E. Gary Gygax went into great lengths lecturing everyone that if they changed anything about AD&D's rules, then they weren't playing AD&D any longer and should admit it.