Fear!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Most examples of fear (at least as a magical spell) make the target run away from the caster as fast as they can, or run about randomly in terror.  In Hero this is usually done with mind control, but I wonder.  Would movement usable as an attack work?  Running vs target, then make them do full moves?  If you have run a full move, you can't do anything else that phase except activate powers that take no time, so it would kind of seem the same.

 

Using Mind Control to simualate fear is really, really expensive to get any real effect on a target and has such a very limited effect.  Basically for the same active points you could make them fight on your side, rather than run away.

[Surrealone]

Movement usable as attack basically lets you drive someone around, since you're in control of the movement.  That's NOT fear.

 

Buy PRE with a (-1 1/4) limitation (only for fear-based PRE-attacks/interactions; offers no defense to the PRE attacks of others) that also Costs END to use (to simulate a fear power) ... and use PRE attacks, perhaps?  This way, your target will control his/her movement (or even lack of it ... i.e. standing there frozen, urinating in their pants, etc.) rather than you.

[Cantriped]

I think UAA Running will have a lot of awkward bagage attached that makes it an ill fit for the concept. For example, the fact that the enemy "runs away" on your phases instead of their own (and then might run back on their phases), that a you can run them into walls to cause damage, or that they might "run away" much faster or slower than they are supposed to.

I generally prefer to use Presence Attacks or Change Environment (-X to PRE Rolls; Target Flees Upon Failure) to represent Fear effects. The Hero System Grimoire uses Drain PRE from several of it's Fear Spells (HSG 255 & 260).

[PhilFleischmann]

I've usually used a limitation on Mind Control for "Emotions Only", and another for "One Effect Only".  In this case, I'd apply both.

 

Emotions Only means you aren't directly controlling the target's actions, just their emotions.  The actions they then take may be somewhat unpredictable, and will depend on the personality/psychology of the character.  What does this character do when he's afraid?  Does he run away at full speed?  Maybe, but he might do something else.  And it also depends on how much the target's EGO is exceeded by the effect roll.

 

But if you specifically want the single fear response of running away at full speed, then you don't get the "Emotions Only" limitation, but you can get the "One Effect Only" limitation - "Run Away at Full Speed (and feel fear)."

 

I find that in most cases "Emotions Only" is worth about -1, and "One Effect Only" is worth about -1/2.

[Alcibiades]

Fear has all kinds of effects beyond just "run!" -- paralysis, aggression actually.

 

What I do for fear (well more insanity really, but the effects are similar) is

 

Drain EGO, INT, and PRE, Three Characteristics Simultaneously, AVAD (Mental Defense [and/or possibly Presence Defense])

 

This turns characters into gibbering wrecks very quickly.

[Christopher R Taylor]

The thing I think would fail with the UAA running is that while you force them to do a full move, its on your phase as Cantriped points out, so they can still act normally on their phases.  Ultimately, PRE attacks are pretty much the same problem as mind control (high expense) and drain makes someone more vulnerable to fear-based effects, but doesn't have much effect 

 

I'm uncomfortable with the use of Change Environment for two reasons.  One, its dirt cheap, and two the "makes you do something" is so vaguely worded and uncertain that its kind of uncontrolled and a big throbbing red stop sign.  I don't mind a single-phase, instant effect (falls down, drops item, interrupts action, etc) but fear is more long-term, and keeps going on.  Mind Control better represents it, but again, the cost.

I would really prefer seeing a Transform-type structure to mental powers than the current flat one.  That is, lower dice cost for minor effects, higher dice cost for really impressive ones, then the chart to see how effective they were.

[IndianaJoe3]

I would really prefer seeing a Transform-type structure to mental powers than the current flat one.  That is, lower dice cost for minor effects, higher dice cost for really impressive ones, then the chart to see how effective they were.

 

I've also noodled around with different models for Mind Control. One was analogous to the BODY/STUN model that Hero uses for normal damage. Depleting a character's WILL (psychic STUN) would make the character follow orders for a short time, but  the target would also recover quickly. Long-term effects would require eliminating the character's PSYche (mental BODY). Mind Control, "damage" would be rolled the same as Normal damage, with the dice total couting as WILL and the BODY total counted against PSY. Characters might be, "dazed" and follow commands for a single phase if the WILL rolled exceeded their EGO.

[Cantriped]

The thing I think would fail with the UAA running is that while you force them to do a full move, its on your phase as Cantriped points out, so they can still act normally on their phases.  Ultimately, PRE attacks are pretty much the same problem as mind control (high expense) and drain makes someone more vulnerable to fear-based effects, but doesn't have much effect 

 

I'm uncomfortable with the use of Change Environment for two reasons.  One, its dirt cheap, and two the "makes you do something" is so vaguely worded and uncertain that its kind of uncontrolled and a big throbbing red stop sign.  I don't mind a single-phase, instant effect (falls down, drops item, interrupts action, etc) but fear is more long-term, and keeps going on.  Mind Control better represents it, but again, the cost.

I would really prefer seeing a Transform-type structure to mental powers than the current flat one.  That is, lower dice cost for minor effects, higher dice cost for really impressive ones, then the chart to see how effective they were.

If you drain PRE to 0, they have to make PRE Rolls not to flee from jump-cuts and men in sheets who go "boo!"

 

The transform pricing structure wouldn't really work for most mental powers because mental powers are more versatile in-practice than Transform is. Transform's effect gets locked in when you purchase it and doesn't change, so it is easy to definitively adjudicate what the cost-per-die should be. However mental powers don't generally have fixed effects, Mind control and Mental Illusions need to be able to achieve minor effects one usage, and severe effects another. they also needed to be able to account for Psychological Limitations which Transform doesn't have to.

Mental powers already have a similar tier of effect structure of their own which produces much the same result. You can find a table specifically for inducing emotions (like fear and love) on page 254 of the Hero System Grimoire. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I've also noodled around with different models for Mind Control. One was analogous to the BODY/STUN model that Hero uses for normal damage.

 

 

I like that concept a lot, at least more so than the present one.  It makes the power both more flexible and more specific, so you get what you're after rather than rolling and either getting nothing or overwhelming your target.  Its so expensive to do some very minimal basic effects; especially the "make them not remember" part.  Mind Control and Mental Illusions both seem like they were written by people who hate, hate hate mentalists and being controlled, so it had to suck as much as possible.

[Hyper-Man]

I like the a Drain vs. PRE with specific Limitations included.  It's basically how I constructed my rookie version of Wonder Woman's Lasso of Truth's ability get "honest" answers out of anyone. I'm sure a similarly specific special effect could be constructed with the same tools here as well. 

 

HM

[Cantriped]

I don't think they were written by people who hate mentalists... although lets be honest, who likes losing control of their character?

Instead, I think Mental Powers were written with the assumption that characters were going to be buying 12-18 dice of effect because that is what fits in their Power Frameworks, and that the mechanics of the power should account for rolling an average of 42-63 points of effect (which is more than enough to get EGO+30 on most opponents). Everybody seems to assume you need to roll at least EGO+30 to force a target to do anything. But in reality: You only need to roll EGO-15 points of Mind Control to persuade Lex Luthor, Syndrome, or The Monarch to start monologuing about their master plan if you word the command well. Alternatively you only need EGO+65 to force Batman to Shoot Robin with a Pistol and think is was his own idea even if you word the command poorly. 

 

Of the five sample villains in CC, the two hardest to control are Esper (EGO 23; MD 20), who is a mentalist herself, and Black Harlequin (EGO 19), the rest have low EGOs (10-13) and Psychological Complications which can easily be abused (like Overconfident).

 

Even Standard Heroes (175-points) are assumed to be tossing 50 APs around (10d6 Mind Control; an average of 35-points of effect), and have at most 20 EGO and 10 Mental Defense. Most will have 10-15 EGO and 0-5 Mental Defense. Worst Case scenario, the character can barely resist an order they were inclined to follow anyway on an average roll, but might still fail to an above average roll or an order that matches a Psychological Complication. Best Cast Scenario, the character can barely resist an order that he's violently opposed to and contradicts their psychological complications, but might still fail to an above average roll.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think Mental Powers were written with the assumption that characters were going to be buying 12-18 dice of effect because that is what fits in their Power Frameworks, and that the mechanics of the power should account for rolling an average of 42-63 points of effect

 

 

That's the main problem.  Because with most powers its incremental or cumulative, so you can have some effect with small dice.  With mental powers you get pretty much jack unless you're at superheroic levels.  Because of their nature and structure, they work okay in superheroic games (as I said, usually all-or-nothing), but very poorly in heroic because either you let people break the usual campaign limits, or they have too few dice to have much effect.

 

Making someone run away in fear or be calmer and less likely to attack isn't worth 40 active points, but you pretty much need that to have any hope of doing the job.  I mean, if your choice is between "knock out the goblin/kill the goblin" or "make the goblin ignore you unless directly interacted with" for the same active points, which is better in 90% of adventure situations?  

[Cantriped]

That's the main problem.  Because with most powers its incremental or cumulative, so you can have some effect with small dice.  With mental powers you get pretty much jack unless you're at superheroic levels.  Because of their nature and structure, they work okay in superheroic games (as I said, usually all-or-nothing), but very poorly in heroic because either you let people break the usual campaign limits, or they have too few dice to have much effect.

Knockback/down has the same issue, you basically need to be dishing out 6d6N or 3d6K to have an even chance of causing Knockback/down.

 

Making someone run away in fear or be calmer and less likely to attack isn't worth 40 active points, but you pretty much need that to have any hope of doing the job.  I mean, if your choice is between "knock out the goblin/kill the goblin" or "make the goblin ignore you unless directly interacted with" for the same active points, which is better in 90% of adventure situations?  

Which is why my first suggestions were:

Presence Attacks; which only cost 3 CP per Die as Striking Appearance, or even less if you build it as a Characteristics Power with Only To Make Presence Attacks (-1) and other appropriate limitations. My Necromancer in the Downloads section (shameless self promotion) has Wonderous Items which grant such powers to aid their Presence Attacks. Honestly I kind of wish "Presence Attack" was an official power like Hand-To-Hand Attack with a mandatory -1 Limitation.

Change Environment (-X to PRE Rolls), which should logically have the same effects as a PRE Roll made for having 0 PRE (target can only perform defensive actions or flee that phase). Of course, unless you pay 36 APs for a -12 to the roll, the chances of such a power working aren't really guaranteed.

[Alcibiades]

While you're on the subject, maybe I can ask a question? Change Environment is described as imposing penalties to characteristic roles, but in one of the sidebar examples in 6E vol. 1 (Dr. Terror, I think it is) has it imposes a penalty on Presence for purposes of defending from Presence Attacks. This doesn't actually seem possible RAW. Am I missing something?

 

Thanks!

[Surrealone]

That's the main problem.  Because with most powers its incremental or cumulative, so you can have some effect with small dice.  With mental powers you get pretty much jack unless you're at superheroic levels.  Because of their nature and structure, they work okay in superheroic games (as I said, usually all-or-nothing), but very poorly in heroic because either you let people break the usual campaign limits, or they have too few dice to have much effect.

 

Making someone run away in fear or be calmer and less likely to attack isn't worth 40 active points, but you pretty much need that to have any hope of doing the job.  I mean, if your choice is between "knock out the goblin/kill the goblin" or "make the goblin ignore you unless directly interacted with" for the same active points, which is better in 90% of adventure situations?  

If you want to simulate a fear power on low dice, then buy a small dice of Mind Control with an Only to Create Fear Effects limitation (a hefty limitation, I'd say, given how versatile mind control is ... and how inversatile it'd become with this limitation) , the Cumulative advantage (turned for the effect maximum you want it to be able to reach)... and the Damage Over Time advantage (tuned to the pace you like) such that you simulate gnawing/growing fear in someone.  If you don't want it to be a building, nagging feeling of fear (since each 'tick' of the DoT will be felt), then build it with Invisible Power Effects, as well.

 

You can do this VERY effectively with as little 1d6.

 

 

Nagging Fear (31 Active Points, 12 Real Points)

Mind Control 1d6, Cumulative (48 points; +1 1/4), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times), Target's defenses only apply once (12 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +4); Limited Power - Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to create fear effects; -1 1/2)

 

Invisible Fear [manifests when stated effect level achieved] (32 Active Points, 13 Real Points)

Mind Control 1d6, Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to Mental Group; +1/4), Cumulative (48 points; +1 1/4), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times), Target's defenses only apply once (12 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +4); Limited Power - Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to create fear effects; -1 1/2)

 

 

It'd be easy enough for you to build either of the above with AoE, too... but that, of course, costs more...

[Cantriped]

While you're on the subject, maybe I can ask a question? Change Environment is described as imposing penalties to characteristic roles, but in one of the sidebar examples in 6E vol. 1 (Dr. Terror, I think it is) has it imposes a penalty on Presence for purposes of defending from Presence Attacks. This doesn't actually seem possible RAW. Am I missing something?

 

Thanks!

That is a weird example power... It was built as a Penalty to PRE Rolls, which is legal... but Presence Attacks don't allow a PRE Roll to resist them... so the power doesn't actually do anything as far as I can tell.

 

Nagging Fear (31 Active Points, 12 Real Points)

Mind Control 1d6, Cumulative (48 points; +1 1/4), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times), Target's defenses only apply once (12 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +4); Limited Power - Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to create fear effects; -1 1/2)

 

Invisible Fear [manifests when stated effect level achieved] (32 Active Points, 13 Real Points)

Mind Control 1d6, Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to Mental Group; +1/4), Cumulative (48 points; +1 1/4), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times), Target's defenses only apply once (12 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +4); Limited Power - Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to create fear effects; -1 1/2)

These can work really well, but Margarita-Man style power constructs are completely canceled by just a few Dice of Damage Negation (my least favorite defense power)  

[bigdamnhero]

Basically for the same active points you could make them fight on your side, rather than run away.

How do you figure? I would say most enemies are going to be far less opposed to running away than they are to switching sides, at least one step lower.

 

That's the main problem.  Because with most powers its incremental or cumulative, so you can have some effect with small dice.  With mental powers you get pretty much jack unless you're at superheroic levels.  Because of their nature and structure, they work okay in superheroic games (as I said, usually all-or-nothing), but very poorly in heroic because either you let people break the usual campaign limits, or they have too few dice to have much effect. 

I haven't had that experience at all. An average 8d6 roll is enough to get at least EGO+10 against most Heroic characters, and at least EGO+0. Sure, that's not enough to make them your slave or have them shoot their best friend. But you can still get some pretty useful effects at EGO+10; if you can't find a way to get good mileage out of making someone "believe any statement that doesn't contradict reality under direct observation," you ain't trying. Heck, one of the most effective uses of Mental Illusions is the "Make friends look like enemies" trick, which only requires EGO+10.

 

The only thing I find in Heroic games is that it becomes prohibitively expensive to put IPE on Mental Powers. (Or achieve +20, in previous editions.) Which is especially problematic because it's counter to how mind control et. al are typically portrayed in many heroic genres/settings. My answer to that is often to make a campaign setting that Mental Powers are Inobvious to the target by default.

 

Making someone run away in fear or be calmer and less likely to attack isn't worth 40 active points 

Really? You think that completely removing someone from a battle should cost less than hitting them with an 8d6 Blast? I don't see the logic there.

 

The all-or-nothing nature of Mind Control (and other Mental Powers, to some extent) is a fair point, and one a lot has already been written about, to include Ultimate Mentalist and probably half a dozen threads here. One thing I use is that if the attacker fails to make the Effect Level they wanted, they might still get some reduced effect - maybe the target doesn't completely run away, but they retreat for a Phase and basically lose an action. Conversely, if the target fails their Breakout Roll but the roll was enough to make an unmodified EGO Roll, they might get to resist the command slightly - maybe the target does run away but makes a parting shot as they retreat, or maybe the can "lawyer" the literal wording of the command to subvert the intent of the command. It takes a little more creativity, but it's not hard and  makes things more fun IMO.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well the thing I'm thinking about is the idea of simulating what you see in source material: games, comics, books, movies, etc.  What is the power displayed and how is it considered and constructed vs other abilities?  How does it manifest?  Can we simulate that adequately and properly in Hero or does it require too many (or too few) points, some odd block o' text, or a kludge?  To me, fear is too costly in terms of active cost and even real cost compared to its effect and portrayal in source material.

 

Some people seem to want to just brush aside active cost as if its a nonexistent number, but it features very prominently in many ways: endurance cost, skill roll modifiers, framework limits, campaign limits, etc.  Even if you can stack enough limitations on it to bring the cost down to a manageable sum, you still have concerns about how hard it is to dispel, for example.

[Cantriped]

Well the thing I'm thinking about is the idea of simulating what you see in source material: games, comics, books, movies, etc.  What is the power displayed and how is it considered and constructed vs other abilities?  How does it manifest?  Can we simulate that adequately and properly in Hero or does it require too many (or too few) points, some odd block o' text, or a kludge?  To me, fear is too costly in terms of active cost and even real cost compared to its effect and portrayal in source material.

 

Some people seem to want to just brush aside active cost as if its a nonexistent number, but it features very prominently in many ways: endurance cost, skill roll modifiers, framework limits, campaign limits, etc.  Even if you can stack enough limitations on it to bring the cost down to a manageable sum, you still have concerns about how hard it is to dispel, for example.

At this point I'm not sure what you actually want us to say. We've already covered every standard permutation of Fear-related powers I've ever seen. You've complained that the inexpensive (but typically unreliable) options cost too little, and that the expensive (but typically most effective) options cost too much. How many Active Points is "just right" for Fear?

It might be easier if you just told us how much do you want/expect to be paying for Fear, so we can find a solution that fits within the narrow range you consider appropriate.

[Surrealone]

These can work really well, but Margarita-Man style power constructs are completely canceled by just a few Dice of Damage Negation (my least favorite defense power)  

You seem to suggest that building a growing, nagging fear type power is somehow Margarita-manish when, in fact, it models a growing sense of fear/dread that is typical when around some beings ... and it accomplishes pretty much exactly what you're looking for, which is to say a potent fear capability at cost cheaper than buying 12-16 dice of Mind Control. The price you pay for that potency at a reduce cost is, of course, the wind-up time for a Damage Over Time power ... and the fact that it can be countered with small amounts of Damage Negation. 

 

If your only complaint with the build centers around Damage Negation, then it sounds like you're just griping to gripe (or because you don't happen to like the construction despite its legitimacy, or because the construction didn't use Change Environment which seems to be your pet focus for this thread, etc.) ... since you can obviously buy the power with Reduced Negation to address your hangup.

 

 

At this point I'm not sure what you actually want us to say. We've already covered every standard permutation of Fear-related powers I've ever seen. You've complained that the inexpensive (but typically unreliable) options cost too little, and that the expensive (but typically most effective) options cost too much. How many Active Points is "just right" for Fear?

It might be easier if you just told us how much do you want/expect to be paying for Fear, so we can find a solution that fits within the narrow range you consider appropriate.

I'll second this.  Good options are on the table that ARE cheaper than buying 12-16 dice of Mind Control (with their own various shortcomings that offset the reduced cost).  I was, in fact, rather shocked when he said buying a lot of PRE was expensive, because if PRE is bought ONLY for use inducing fear-based PRE Attack effects, then it's probably bought with a -1 1/2 limitation since it offers no defense, affects no interaction skills at all, etc.  That's some cheap PRE...

 

Or heck, buy a pile of Striking Appearance if the basis for the fear is appearance-based (Toxic Avenger, anyone?).  Cheap!

[Christopher R Taylor]

You've complained that the inexpensive (but typically unreliable) options cost too little, and that the expensive (but typically most effective) options cost too much.

 

 

Not at all.  I actually haven't said anything about cheaper choices, but I will note here that the listed inexpensive options don't do what the source material shows (effect causes targets to flee in terror for a short time) and the expensive options are too expensive.  

 

For example, draining presence might make a target be afraid, eventually, but doesn't actually cause the listed concept and effect.  A mind control DOT will, eventually, cause a building sense of dread and make people run away in fear, but its again not the listed concept.  A Change Environment may make a target have to roll or have a reaction, but the reaction is immediate, not longer term: one instant response, not several phases of fleeing.

 

On the other end, a Presence attack may with GM discretion cause a target to flee... for the same dice as a mind control, so we're back where we started, aren't we?

I wouldn't allow someone to buy striking appearance then put limitations on it, or any other talent, for that matter.  They're already built as a power with a package of modifiers on them, its like doubling up on limitations.

 

What I'm hoping for here is some brainstorming on solutions and options that better represent source materials.  I don't want this for a character, I just don't want to have to spend so many points on monsters that scare people.  What I'm not looking for is people to become defensive about the Hero system as if I'm attacking it or feel as though when I deem an idea not to be what I have in mind to be some personal affront.

[Cantriped]

You seem to suggest that building a growing, nagging fear type power is somehow Margarita-manish when, in fact, it models a growing sense of fear/dread that is typical when around some beings...

The "Margarita-Man" simply refers to a Constant, Cumulative, Mental Power (like Mind Control or Mental Illusions) which can be delivered via a Mind-Scan Lock-On while the Character sips their margarita on the beach. Somebody on the boards came up with the idea years ago. The exact command given is irrelevant to the concept.

 

Not at all.  I actually haven't said anything about cheaper choices, but I will note here that the listed inexpensive options don't do what the source material shows (effect causes targets to flee in terror for a short time) and the expensive options are too expensive.  

Yeah... go back and read post #6.

 

For example, draining presence might make a target be afraid, eventually, but doesn't actually cause the listed concept and effect. 

The penalties for 0 PRE are literally that you have to make a PRE Roll or either Flee or take only defensive actions (like cower behind cover, or englobe yourself in a barrier).

 

A mind control DOT will, eventually, cause a building sense of dread and make people run away in fear, but its again not the listed concept.

Yeah, you kind of have to be ready to pay more to get immediate results, which it has already been established you aren't. Besides its not like you need EGO+30 to get a Henchman to run away from a Superhero Battle. That is at best EGO+10 if the Henchman has a Loyalty Complication. Mind Control has the added advantage over other methods (like CE or Presence Attacks) that once they fall victim they have to keep running until they make an EGO Roll, and they only get an EGO roll once for every step on the Time Chart (1 Phase, 1 Turn, Minute, 5 Minutes, 20 Minutes, 1 Hour, etc). By the way... I've never had a Combat in HERO that ran 5 Minutes.

 

A Change Environment may make a target have to roll or have a reaction, but the reaction is immediate, not longer term: one instant response, not several phases of fleeing.

Change Environment is Constant... They have to keep making a Roll (at the listed penalty) every phase you maintain the power, and if they fail they keep fleeing (or only taking defensive actions). There is also a "Long Lasting" adder for Change Environment which should force them to make PRE Rolls every phase (at the listed penalty) for the listed duration even after you've stopped maintaining the Power.

 

On the other end, a Presence attack may with GM discretion cause a target to flee... for the same dice as a mind control, so we're back where we started, aren't we?

I wouldn't allow someone to buy striking appearance then put limitations on it, or any other talent, for that matter.  They're already built as a power with a package of modifiers on them, its like doubling up on limitations.

You're forgetting that you can get upwards of +10d6 of Free Presence Attack just from conditions (you can't do that with Mind Control). And that isn't even counting the 2d6 everybody gets for free, and the 3 or 4d6 they are more likely to have... or the fact that even built as a Power, you're paying at most 5 APs & 2.5 CP per +1d6 of PA bought as a Power.

[Nolgroth]

The effects of fear are a touchy subject in most role playing circles. Some groups will roll with whatever mechanical effects there are and some won't. There is a predisposition amongst players to not want their characters controlled by anybody but them. Whatever mechanical effect you go with, make sure your players are good with it.

 

I find that a good reward for role playing the fear is better than a mechanism anyway. It makes the player feel both engaged and...well, rewarded. An extra HAP or two, a temporary bonus to something related to the source of the fear, something. Any of these can go a long way to making fear something that the character feels and not something that the player feels.

 

If I were going to mechanize fear (actually being startled or emotionally shaken) in the Hero system, it would literally be for the first phase of combat before Post 12. I don't like complicated builds, so I would basically make it an 8- "Berserk" roll and use the guidelines for Presence attack to add to that. For each +1 die bonus the NPC would get, I would add +1 to the "Berserk" roll. Even if the roll indicates a started or fearful response, I would still give the player the choice of Fight/Flight/Freeze. Flight, pick a random direction and the character moves at his NCM ground movement in that general direction. Fight, pick the closest target that the character lashes out against (to include comrades) at base OCV.  Freeze, the character is at 1/2 DCV until their next phase. After that initial panic, the character's would once again be under the control of their respective player. A "Berserk" roll that didn't cause the character to lose control nets no negative against the character. They can act normally.

 

If I wanted the fear to be something that affected them during the combat, on a physiological level, I would use Change Environment or Drain to deplete their stats or require a Presence roll to temper their fear.

 

Again, to me, Fear is something that is role-played by the players and their characters Presence, Mental Defenses, and such would play a large part in defining how that character reacted on a storytelling level. You will always get the player who adamantly states "My character is NEVER afraid of ANYTHING!" and refuses to participate. That same player would complain about mechanical rules as well so either way, you have to deal with that disconnect. That is a poor sport player, but we have all encountered those in our careers as GMs*.

 

 

 

*Much as many players have dealt with vendetta driven, Mary Sue GMPC playing, oppositional GMs. 

 

 

[Cantriped]

Bear in mind, the original post was about Spells and Abilities which Induce Fear as their mechanical effect, not coincidental/environmental fear.

For coincidental/environmental Fear, I use the rules for PRE Attacks; assigning the event dice as appropriate to how scary it was. The player who insists their character "is NEVER afraid" better have bought enough Presence to back that up if they want it to be true.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Change Environment is Constant... They have to keep making a Roll (at the listed penalty) every phase you maintain the power, and if they fail they keep fleeing (or only taking defensive actions). There is also a "Long Lasting" adder for Change Environment which should force them to make PRE Rolls every phase (at the listed penalty) for the listed duration even after you've stopped maintaining the Power.

 

 

The more I think about it, the more this does seem like a valid option.  Its conceptually odd, but it does have a pretty close mechanic in practice.  In game terms it looks like fits of start and stop, but in play it can look like someone who stays afraid until they make their roll (whichever desired).  I wouldn't ever want a fear that lasted a very long time; a few phases at most.  You could even put a max on the duration of effect.

 

Something like:

 

Change Environment (Raw terror): Ego roll -3 or flee, Long-lasting 1 turn (11 active points); Instant (-1/2), Effect ends if roll is made (-1/4), Mental Defense protects from effect (-1/4)

 

Really cheap for the effect, unfortunately.