Lucius Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/27/2018 at 9:21 AM, Hugh Neilson said: I agree that differentiating "complex to build" from "complex to run" is important. Needing an extra hour to work out the mechanics on paper in character creation is a lot better than needing a minute to record END after each action or recovery. Game time is much more precious. May I quote you on that? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says I just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 And you are welcome to continue doing so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 On 4/27/2018 at 1:35 PM, LoneWolf said: The separate recovery is going to be a book keeping nightmare. I can understand wanting a simple solution, but complexity can be in either the purchase or the use of a power. To me it is better to purchase the power using a more complex scheme that is simple to use. This way the player only has to deal with the complexity at character creation. The other way he has to deal with it every time he uses the power. That being said two END batteries are going to be the best way to simulate what the OP wants. One END battery has a slower recovery and can be used for both types of power. The other battery has a higher recovery and can only be used for the fire powers. If you want the powers to be able to be used the same amount of times before the battery is depleted put the advantage ½ END on the electrical powers. My issue with the END batteries is that their use does not tire the user, they almost insulate the user from tiredness, what they do, is cost the character points for something that is supposed to be a complicating feature, anathema to the core principles of HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 I am not sure why you think an END battery is supposed to be a complication. I also don’t understand why a character whose powers are derived from a device would get physically tired from using the powers of the device. If the concept for my character has the source of his power being completely separate from himself and END battery is probably the best way to simulate this. Not all concepts will have the character powers directly tied to the character. Without END batteries these concepts are a lot more difficult or even impossible to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Endurance Battery can be used to simulate energy sources which the character can tap which are not tied into his base endurance, regardless of it can be separated from the character or not. Yes, it can simulate a takeable energy source for power suits and energy guns. It can also represent things like Mana or Psionic Energy or even the ability to absorb and store energy from the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 On 4/23/2018 at 9:18 AM, digeridork said: I want the END from electric-based powers to recover at a slower rate than the fire-based (primary) powers. The reason I think that the idea is for the delayed recovery of END expenditure from fire-based powers to be a complication is because the OP pitched it that way. Suggesting you model it via an END Battery which costs points seems counter-intuitive. Obviously an END Battery is not a complication but something that causes you to remain more tired for longer is indeed a complication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 4/29/2018 at 12:24 PM, Doc Democracy said: My issue with the END batteries is that their use does not tire the user, they almost insulate the user from tiredness, what they do, is cost the character points for something that is supposed to be a complicating feature, anathema to the core principles of HERO. Way back in 1/2e, there was an X-Men writeup in Different Worlds that gave Cyclops an END reserve for his optic blasts, with the added limitation that every 3 points used from the reserve also cost him one real END. What if using your END reserve cost END? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Doc Democracy said: The reason I think that the idea is for the delayed recovery of END expenditure from fire-based powers to be a complication is because the OP pitched it that way. Suggesting you model it via an END Battery which costs points seems counter-intuitive. Obviously an END Battery is not a complication but something that causes you to remain more tired for longer is indeed a complication. If it's one of your own powers causing you to remain more tired for longer, shouldn't that be a Limitation on that Power? Lucius Alexander Is the palindromedary making me so tired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 2:24 PM, Amorkca said: I would just have the Electricity powers cost 1.5x endurance with the limitation. Fire powers stay the same for endurance cost. Explanation being he/she has to actively concentrate in order to use the Electricity powers. Which could also add other limitations too! Yeah, limitation or complication - either saving you points or filling your complication requirements - but definitely not something that you should be spending points on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said: Way back in 1/2e, there was an X-Men writeup in Different Worlds that gave Cyclops an END reserve for his optic blasts, with the added limitation that every 3 points used from the reserve also cost him one real END. What if using your END reserve cost END? I have no issue with END batteries and indeed have used them in many character builds. It is their applicability in doing something that is supposed to just complicate matters for the character. If F-E Man can use fire and electricity powers, which use END and recover normally, costs 200 points. Then F-E (complicated) Man can use fire and electricity but the electricity ones take longer to recover from, should cost fewer than 200 points. If the answer is to add in an END battery, then the cost will not be less than 200 points, it will almost certainly be more. You might say that using the END battery provides benefits to F-E (complicated) Man that F-E Man does not have, but that is not what was asked for. You might reduce the costs of the END battery by limiting it (such as making it cost real END) but again, that will be a greater cost, just by not as much points. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 4/23/2018 at 8:55 AM, Lucius said: Give the Electrical Powers a Side Effect: Drain END, with a long recovery time. That way the power costs END as normal then on top of that drains, say, 1d6 END that don't come back for five minutes, or an hour, or however long you and the Game Operations Director agree on. Reading back, this seems to fit the effect that the OP wanted. Electrical powers will use END in a way that won't recover as quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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