Drain, Does Knockback

[Tech]

How would you calculate the knockback on the following power:

 

Drain 5d6 Str, with advantage Does Knockback.

 

Assuming I roll 5d6 and get 20 pts of Str Drain (all 4's), what would you do with this?

[Hugh Neilson]

You have 5 BOD and roll 2d6 to subtract from it, just like it was a 5d6 Blast.

[Tech]

35 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

You have 5 BOD and roll 2d6 to subtract from it, just like it was a 5d6 Blast.

 

I'm doing alot of different things at the moment so I missed the explanation in the book. Thanks.

[Sean Waters]

I'd re-write the rules on Knockback.

 

What?

 

I would!

 

This is an interesting one because it does not come up often and does not seem fair.  If my Flash does KB then it does more KB for the same points as my Drain.  That can't be right. There should be a multiplier equal to the base points of 1d6 of the power/5, so with Drain at 10 points per 1d6 you would double the KB result before applying the -2d6.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Seems like a drain that does knockback would knock them toward you rather than away.   Hmm how would you buy that?  Is it a +0 advantage?

 

Quote

There should be a multiplier equal to the base points of 1d6 of the power/5, so with Drain at 10 points per 1d6 you would double the KB result before applying the -2d6.

 

I agree, knockback ought to be based on an absolute number rather than the dice used in the power.  Also should probably be lower, like 1d6/10 base points or something.

[Duke Bushido]

Hmmmm.. 

 

Base it on AP flies to mind, but that still makes it much more effective for some powers than others, and of course, anything I an ultra gets it for a song. 

 

Base it on Actual Cost?   Lots of complaints all around, but I think the scenarios that spilled out of it until everyone had a handle on where to go next. 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

I'd suggest basing it on DC, and applying the appropriate multiplier as a correcting factor.  1d6 Drain is 2 DC, so the correcting factor is 2.  5d6 Drain is 10 DC Drain is 5d{0,1,1,1,1,2)*2 Knockback. 

[Hugh Neilson]

The easy solution is to base it on DCs of the base attack (an AP Blast does less knockback for the same AP than a standard Blast), which makes doubling BOD for a drain an easy answer.  A bit more complex, but a drop in the bucket.

[Tech]

I like the idea of basing knockback on the DC of the base attack. 5d6 Drain vs Str is 50 Pts. Adding the 'Does Knockback' is a +1/4 adding an additional 12 pts for a Real Cost of 62 pts. Those 12 pts spent are almost useless using the 5d6 example I mentioned (20 pts rolled consisting of die rolls of 4,4,4,4,4). It that comes out to 5 Body then you roll 2d6 for Knockback, the average of 2d6 is 7 pts. No Knockback for your 12 pts spent. The majority of the time, you will not get Knockback, making those points almost useless.

[Hugh Neilson]

2d6 comes up 5 or less 10 times in 36, so about 28% of the time.  That's 12 points for a better than 1 in 4 chance of knocking the target prone in addition to the Drain effect.  Viewed in isolation, that does not seem useless.  I still like basing this on the attack DC, though.  Especially when we think about a 3 point per 1d6 Flash attack...

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

Sure, but doubling the KB makes the distribution almost an exact match for a 50 AP power with Does Knockback that/s 5AP/DC. 

See https://anydice.com/program/13bc2 which will provide graphs, including of the silliness of Dispel, Does Knockback.  A -1 result means neither knockback nor knockdown occurred, a 0 result means knockdown. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I liked the switch over to meters from inches, because I kept the formula unchanged: 1 unit per point rolled on the knockback dice.  That way instead of a 12d6 blast knocking you up to 44 meters (almost 150 feet) away, it puts you a maximum of 22 meters.  Still a long ways, but not like you were shot out of a cannon.

Yes, I know in the comics sometimes you get those huge distances

 

 

But that's because something truly awesome was done, not just because everyone should do that.  Those were examples of someone with extra knockback doing an unbelievably powerful attack, not the standard.