So what do we want to talk about?

[assault]

Just to get things started, here are a couple of things I'd like to see peoples' ideas on:

 

* Hazards, especially the ones you fight.

 

* "Killing attacks", weapons and stuff, including Resistant Defense.

 

* Characteristics: ranges and trade-off. For example, spending points on Speed versus spending points on Body.

 

* Situations: anything, particularly Psych Situations

 

* How-to-builds: for example, how would you approach a Batman/Green Arrow/Sandman/Blue Beetle "martial artist with skills and equipment".

 

Obviously a lot of other things will come up after some play experience.

 

Personally I have some thoughts and speculations on a few topics, but of course I have to sit down and organize them, which probably won't happen today.

I'm also not sure about the reliability of my potential players, which might leave me without an actual game. And my computer is elderly, and doesn't want to run Discord. :(

[Starshield]

I'd like some more concrete ideas about how to come up with the Two Statements, and how you fill out the character sheet.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

Start some threads! 

 

10 minutes ago, Starshield said:

I'd like some more concrete ideas about how to come up with the Two Statements, and how you fill out the character sheet.

I'm not familiar with the "Two Statements" you refer to.  Could you elaborate? 

[assault]

4 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I'm not familiar with the "Two Statements" you refer to.  Could you elaborate? 

 

Do you have access to the rules? If so, it is on page 32.

 

If not, well, I might as well just include a brief quote:

---

Okay! When you get people together, have the following two statements at the
ready, no more and no less.
▶ One solid bit of content about superpowers, heroes, or villains
▶ This part might be back-story, or purely visual, or just atmospheric.
▶ One solid bit of fictional style and specific types of problems
▶ Include the location of play (ideally, somewhere that someone in the group
knows really well)
▶ This part says nothing about powers or superhero/villain material. It’s really
tempting, but resist.

---

 

The "solid bits" are the two statements. Basically, they're the information given to the players to create their characters.

 

They are part of the 'official' way to play Champions Now. They could, of course, be ignored, since there are as many other techniques of campaign creation as there are GMs. But they're an interesting method which works.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

Just now, assault said:

 

Do you have access to the rules? If so, it is on page 32.

 

If not, well, I might as well just include a brief quote:

---

Okay! When you get people together, have the following two statements at the
ready, no more and no less.
▶ One solid bit of content about superpowers, heroes, or villains
▶ This part might be back-story, or purely visual, or just atmospheric.
▶ One solid bit of fictional style and specific types of problems
▶ Include the location of play (ideally, somewhere that someone in the group
knows really well)
▶ This part says nothing about powers or superhero/villain material. It’s really
tempting, but resist.

---

 

The "solid bits" are the two statements. Basically, they're the information given to the players to create their characters.

 

They are part of the 'official' way to play Champions Now. They could, of course, be ignored, since there are as many other techniques of campaign creation as there are GMs. But they're an interesting method which works.

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't even notice that a Champions Now subforum got created, it's hidden behind the Champions forum.  My bad! 

 

I'd be very hesitant to go through with that method.  Supers is such a broad genre that I'd be very very worried about communication issues.  I've had so many serious issues crop because of genre-mismatch issues (FBI alien with License to Kill and a laser gun in a group of otherwise heroic individuals, issue only became apparent when he crit a clown-villain and described it as a killshot, then a trying-to-be-helpful player making murderous villains for a light-hearted game, then a guy torturing captured criminals for information in a light-hearted game) that I'd never go in without a lot firmer foundation of common understanding. 

[assault]

21 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I'd be very hesitant to go through with that method.  Supers is such a broad genre that I'd be very very worried about communication issues.  I've had so many serious issues crop because of genre-mismatch issues (FBI alien with License to Kill and a laser gun in a group of otherwise heroic individuals, issue only became apparent when he crit a clown-villain and described it as a killshot, then a trying-to-be-helpful player making murderous villains for a light-hearted game, then a guy torturing captured criminals for information in a light-hearted game) that I'd never go in without a lot firmer foundation of common understanding. 

 

This is what the second statement is about (aside from location):

"One solid bit of fictional style and specific types of problems"

 

It's made clearer in the full text, of course. I just did a minimal quote.

[PeterLind]

On Characteristics:  I have tried a couple of conversions of old 3E characters, Crusader and Starburst.  Both made it under 200 pts. no problem.  Here's how I am starting to eyeball the characteristics:

- STR:  A straight conversion, but sometimes reducing strength because in the old rules, strength was often bought up to get the figured characteristics.  For example, Starburst showed 15 STR.  I saw no reason for him to keep that, so put him at 2d6.

- PRE:  So far a straight conversion, but tending to round down, with the assumption that these are beginning characters. Thus, I have converted 18 PRE to 3d6 PRE, for example.

- DEF:  Generally finding the highest of PD or ED, and using a straight conversion so far.  So for Crusader and Starburst, they each had 15 DEF unresistant.

- BODY:  Eye-balling between BODY and total STUN on the character to get a fair approximation.  I ended up putting both Crusader and Starburst at 12 Body.

-DEX:  Straight conversion with possible adjustment 1 up or down.  So far, I put 26 DEX at 14 DEX.

- SPEED:  Generally SPD shown -2.  So 6 = 4, 5 = 3, 4 = 2.

-INT & EGO:  Straight conversions.  

[unclevlad]

To Peter:

 

I think you've got Str about right.  15 feels like an entry level for many, even lower-power supers.  And as you say, the influence on figured characteristics couldn't be ignored.  I'd have to look at the BODY...because in Champs Now it's THE basis for figured stats.  Nothing else is.  So you have to look at Body and Con, primarily.  Dex, like Str, *loses* a lot.  Dex...yeah, you're probably pretty close.  It's not adding to Speed, but that was always relatively small.  I think people are gonna tend to buy up, given that CV is so central.  Perhaps not.

 

The defenses...did you note that Starburst has a 25 Def force field?  Or was that in the Powers part, rather than Characteristics?  One big issue on trying to figure out how much defenses to buy, is how big the attack scales should be.  Champs Now heroes seem to be running a bit lower...8-9 dice.  (Villains have more, but that's intentional.)

 

Speed shouldn't be -2, it should be 1/2, shouldn't it?  What matters is the number of actions per turn.   But the granularity difference here is pretty significant, so as you say, you might need to tweak.

 

 

[assault]

1 hour ago, PeterLind said:

- SPEED:  Generally SPD shown -2.  So 6 = 4, 5 = 3, 4 = 2.

 

I'd consider SPD -1, because I have a suspicion that SPD 4 might be more common in Champions Now (CNow?) than the book implies.

[assault]

29 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

One big issue on trying to figure out how much defenses to buy, is how big the attack scales should be.  Champs Now heroes seem to be running a bit lower...8-9 dice.  (Villains have more, but that's intentional.)

 

Speed shouldn't be -2, it should be 1/2, shouldn't it?  What matters is the number of actions per turn.   But the granularity difference here is pretty significant, so as you say, you might need to tweak.

 

I don't think dividing Champions Speed gives very useful results. I think the subtraction approach works better. But as I mentioned in my previous post, Speed -1 might be better than Speed -2.

 

I think the question of attacks is still open. It's easy to get attacks higher than 8-9 dice (try buying up Str and using Martial Kick), and Endurance Costs are only a partial limiting factor.

 

On the other hand, non-Resistant defenses are cheap, so 8-9 dice attacks can be easily negated. Which brings us to Piercing attacks and Resistant defense...

[PeterLind]

Speed:  Yes, I thought about that.  Not a 1/2 conversion because a lot of the upper-end Speeds were not used anyways.  IMO, Spd 3-4 is going to be your most common range for characters, which will correspond to Spd 5-6 from before.  Also, don't forget that powers cost more END and there is no free Post 12.   So if there is a consensus that Spd 5 = Spd 3, and everyone is on board, then you won't have a problem.  In this way, you will be able to leave Spd 4 for the martial artists and speedsters (i.e. your faster characters) . . . And then you can reserve Spd 2 for the slow, really tough characters . . . then I think it works. 

 

Power Level:  I am figuring on an 8-10 dice range.

 

Starburst's Force Field:  Good point.  I would have Starburst at 10 base DEF with the variable Force Field under his Multi-Power.  

 

 

[PeterLind]

Can someone please help me understand how Martial Block works?  The description on p. 179 under the Martial Maneuvers table states "No abort for reactive use."  Reactive actions are explained on p. 175.  This seems to state that the use of a Martial Block maneuver while out of phase does not require the character to abort his or her next action.  Am I right on this?  Thanks.

[unclevlad]

41 minutes ago, assault said:

 

I'd consider SPD -1, because I have a suspicion that SPD 4 might be more common in Champions Now (CNow?) than the book implies.

 

Ehhh...if you do Speed -1 then Crusader gets a 5 Speed in Champs Now...which is insanely fast.  And that's a real problem with the END costs.  Speed 3 is pretty much gonna be in the 'normal' range; for characters  4 is going to be quite fast, especially for a 200 point character.

 

Quote

On the other hand, non-Resistant defenses are cheap, so 8-9 dice attacks can be easily negated. Which brings us to Piercing attacks and Resistant defense...

 

Just because you *can* negate 8 dice...and I'd argue, it's not that cheap...doesn't mean you *should*.  That's not cheap.  Plus villains are going to have slightly higher attacks.  Plus, yes, there's always Piercing, so if you want the Speed 2 Brick, those defenses costs are not gonna be cheap.  Also, note:  yes, you CAN get a 10 die attack as a hero, but again...SHOULD you?  Champs Now is more about the concept than trying to squeeze the numbers til they bleed.

I can live with Peter's Champs 3 Speed 5 translates to Champs Now Speed 3....but that's still dividing by 2 and rounding up.   So I think divide by 2 is a solid baseline...just keep in mind how you round.  And yes, track that END...because that Speed 4 here means 8 phases out of 12.  Now, if you're thinking maybe you go Speed 4 a bit more, because you want to take that Recovery action more often.  That could well be, so you might be right that most people will *tend* to go higher speed.  The exception might be the uber-tough brick who's got, not only good defense...but high Body, so therefore high End and Knockout.  The hybrid Tough Martial Artist doesn't even burn END appreciably.

 

It's pretty clear to me that we can't just apply some turnkey methodology, tho.  

 

Martial block..."No abort for reactive use"...some of this is that "abort" is only used in literally 2 places, searching the PDF.  The other place is 198-199..."you can abort a held action."  I *think* what it says is, you can ALWAYS invoke Martial Block and it doesn't cost you your next phase, or your action on this phase.  So if I'm reading it correctly...say you get attacked on 2 when you have no action.  If it's an Abort to Block, then you can block but you can't attack on 3.  If it's No Abort to block, you CAN attack on 3.

 

 

 

 

[assault]

Hmm. I've just noticed something that affects my character building. I was working on an older version of the characteristics derived from Body.

 

End being only 3x Body makes a difference. It makes Martial Arts even more of a bargain.

 

Allowing for that, this off the cuff character, while not optimized, might be viable:

(Points) (Thing Bought) (Endurance)

 

30 Strength 8d6 (Endurance up to 8 )
10 Presence 4d6
15 Defense 25
15 +3 resistant Defense

 

0 Body 10
50 Speed 6

 

Recovery (Body x 1) 10
Stunned (Body x 1) 10
Knockout (Body x 2) 20
Endurance (Body x 3) 30

 

40 Dexterity 15
0 Intelligence 11
0 Ego 11
 
5 Computer Programming (Intelligence) 11-
5 Detective Work (Intelligence) 11-
10 Martial Attacks

 

20 Flight: 10 hexes per Phase. (Endurance up to 2 (1 per 5 hexes moved or fraction thereof))

[assault]

An interesting thing: there's no index. A little awkward.

[PeterLind]

Here is my write-up/conversion of Crusader, from the 3E rulebook to Champions Now:

 

3d6 STR 5 pts.

3d6 PRE 5 pts.

15 DEF 5 pts.

0 Resist DEF 0 pts.

12 Body 20 pts.

4 SPD 30 pts.

14 DEX 30 pts. 

12 INT 10 pts.

11 EGO 0 pts.

12 REC --

12 Stunned --

24 Knockout --

36 END --

Total Char: 105

 

Detective Work 5 pts.

Stealth 5 pts.

Acrobatics 10 pts.

Martial Attacks 10 pts.

Martial Moves 10 pts.

Find Weakness (Martial Punch) 10 pts.

Luck 1d6  5 pts.

Skill Level: +1 w/ Martial Punch 5 pts.

"Shield" - Missile Deflection 1x (OF Shield -1) 10 pts.

"Glider Wings" - Flight (as gliding) 10 hexes (OF Wings -1) 10 pts.

"Boot Jets" - Flight 10 hexes (as flight) (IF Boots 1/2, Burnout 11- till recharge -1/2) 10 pts.

Total Skills & Powers: 90 

 

Total Points: 195

 

EDIT:  Added DEX; Added descriptors to powers

[assault]

Missing DEX.

[unclevlad]

10 hours ago, assault said:

Missing DEX.

 

By the points, 14 Dex.  He's only got 75 points showing for Characteristics.  Good catch, tho.

[Pariah]

I've read through the first 30 pages or so. Interesting, but something about the tone bugs me a little. I'm not sure why. I will undoubtedly get over it. 

 

The lack of an index is a little concerning. That may be something to be resolved as an aftermarket document in the Hall of Champions.

 

I'm not thrilled by the character sheet. Yeah, it's functional and straightforward. But in such a visual medium--and especially with all the focus on getting the artwork right--there's no place on the character sheet for a picture? (Not a huge thing, but again, it bugs me.)

 

It will certainly be quicker to use and more streamlined than 6E, or even Champions Complete. I have yet to determine whether flexibility will suffer unacceptably as a result. It'll probably be fine, but it'll take some getting used to.

 

I probably need to do more reading before commenting further. And as nice as it is to have the finished product (FINALLY!) on my mobile device(s), I'm still really looking forward to the dead tree version.

 

Excelsior!

[Pariah]

Suggestion: How about a thread dedicated to sharing competed builds? I'd sure be interested in knowing how you folks are creating characters.

[PeterLind]

I have added DEX to the Crusader write-up above.  Thanks . . .:)

 

I was able to run a Champions Now game yesterday for 4 players, all Champions veterans.  I had 4 pre-made sample characters (one of them was Crusader above), of which 2 were taken without modification, one was modified, and one was created new.  The players were ready to go in about 30 minutes and we had a good time. . . )

 

EDIT:  Anyways, if I see a new thread, I can post them there . . . so who makes the first move?

[PeterLind]

1 hour ago, PeterLind said:

I have added DEX to the Crusader write-up above.  Thanks . . .:)

 

I was able to run a Champions Now game yesterday for 4 players, all Champions veterans.  I had 4 pre-made sample characters (one of them was Crusader above), of which 2 were taken without modification, one was modified, and one was created new.  The players were ready to go in about 30 minutes and we had a good time. . . )  Anyways, if I see a new thread, I can post them there . . . so who makes the first move?

 

Sorry this is a double-post.

[PeterLind]

> I'm not thrilled by the character sheet. <

 

When I was working on my characters, I found that character sheet a bit unwieldy and lacking in space.  So I created my own spartan-kind of sheet on excel which worked out fine.  I am not good at excel, so it has a very basic function but got the job done for a game I ran yesterday.  Feel free to send me a note.

[Pariah]

I was thinking about trying to put something together in Word. We'll see if that happens.

 

In terms of utility, the posts in the Character Builds thread you started (Thanks!) look pretty good. Did you do Situations for these characters as well?

[Pariah]

I'm now another 30 or so pages in. One thing I'm seeing that perplexes me a bit is the names of things being changed for reasons that aren't obvious to me. As mentioned above, "Situations" instead of "Complications".* "Multipower" is now "Multiform". "STUN" is now "Knockout", which I suppose makes some sense. And so on. For me, half the challenge of reading the new book has been the vocabulary.

 

I scanned the character-building chapter today; I'll read it in more detail in the next few days. After that, I should be able to start building characters....

 

 

*Honestly, I'm still not convinced that the 6th Ed change from "Disadvantages" to "Complications" was necessary either.