Energy Blast Tug-o-War

[TechnoViking]

A common theme in Superhero comics and cartoons is the Energy Blast tug-o-war. Where two energy blasters EB attacks connection in mid air. The battle then kinda becomes a tug of war where the energy blaster try to get their energy blast to overwhelm their opponents.

 

Two things can happen:

1. One person blaster overwhelms their opponent.

2. The nexus of the two blasts causes a massive explosion.

 

How would you handle this in Champions.

 

Mike

[misterdeath]

Use the rules in Ninja Hero...

 

D

[Blue]

Interesting question. In 20 years I've never had anyone try this.

 

(...my god, has it been 20 years?)

 

I think I'd just go from a logical (or more likely exaggerated) comparison of special effects. Ice attack freezes water blast leaving a long icicle like structure; Heat attack boils water attack away into steam. Fire and Ice Attack create a big puddle of water that likely falls downward (Unless the fire attack is "No Knockback" then I might have the water fall towards the fire-casting player) Radiation and Water blast cause superheated steam that might harm anone within an explosion-like radius of where the two powers meet, etc.)

 

Naturally some attacks don't match up at all. Especially if one or both of the attacks cannot be missle-deflected.

[farik]

personally

 

first I'd treat the attempt as a block to see if the beams conected.

 

A succesful block means the beams collide

 

if the OCV rolls tie then I'd have an explosion occur with the mid point as the center and add up all the DCs of both attacks and treat those DCs as standard EB AoE explosion with the SFX dictated by the interaction of the two beams

 

if the OCV rolls didn't tie but the block was succesful I'd treat the DC's of the attacks like contested STR dice. However many body the winner excede the loser are how many DC I'd let them apply to the loser of their original blast.

 

Of course this is assuming it's a rare occurence and not a battle tactic. If players with personal immunity and matching OCVs wanted to use this as a way to cause an AoE explosion I'd make them buy a seperate power and whenever they tried I'd simply have their beams always pass each other (unless the really seemed abusive in which case I'd have 2 explosions centered on them and their personal immunities wouldn't work since they "overloaded their power."

[Ghost who Walks]

I've never had a player try this either. Thank God.

 

If you are trying to block the eb with your own, you could use missile deflection, with some limitations on it, and usable at range.

 

Most times they show this, it seems the blasters in question have the continuous advantage. Perhaps one of them runs out of endurance first?

[Vigil]

I agree with Farik's appraisal of this.

 

It's never happened in one of my campaigns either, although it happens all the time in comics.

 

Beyond what Farik states, thought, I think the simplest mechnic for it is if two characters have similar EBs and Personal Immunity than the tug of war could just be a SFX for the Immunity. No one gets hurt and it looks more interesting than the characters just standing there.

 

 

Andlike Ghost Who Walks states, I'd insist that the EB's be Continuous or at least affects PD to show that there's some physical component which can be blocked or what have you.

 

Vigil

[Eyendasky80]

First thing I thought of was missle deflection like Ghost who Walks. To take it into the tug-o-war zone, maybe the person who just had their blast reflected back at them (and also has missle reflection) could have a skill v skill contest to try and slam it back again. This would probably take some fudging since you can't abort to reflect after attacking that segment, right? But it'd be a cool way to throw that piece of genre in.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Okay, under 4th I liked 'Energy Blast linked with Missile Reflection' for this. Both would fire, both would reflect. Then they'd do it again next phase. The 'shoved back' was just sfx; it's never a full inch.

 

Now, not quite sure this works.

 

As for the 'BOOM'? Never thought of that before.

 

Probably say 'if you both make the roll by the same amount, KABOOM', and make that a -1/4 lim on the reflect.

 

o' course, even then, this was (is) all theoretical.

[bryanb]

Originally posted by misterdeath

Use the rules in Ninja Hero...

 

D

 

Any hints at what these say????

[levi]

I don't see how this would be resolved differently than an arm wrestling match. Using the (Active Points / 5) + 9 in place of the STR Roll. Setting a required effect of +5 to win (in other words, one side must succeed in accumulating a total bonus of +5 to win the contest).

 

Example:

Gigawatt (12D6 EB 60 Active Pts. - Lightning SFX)

~versus~

Pulse (10D6 armor piercing EB 75 Active Pts. - Radiation SFX)

 

Both have same SPD, Pulse has a slightly lower DEX.

 

PHA 12 - Gig holds action until Pulse fires, then Gig fires to Block. Gig makes a Block Roll and succeeds thus beginning the Power v. Power Rolls. Pulse has an EB Roll of 24- (75 ap / 5 = 15 +9 = 24-) while Gig has only 60 ap giving him a 21-, but Gig also has the Power Skill and makes his Skill roll, so the GM gives Gig a +1 to his EB Roll (22- total). Both participants roll...Pulse rolls a 12, and makes his roll by 12. Gig also rolls a 12 and makes his by 10.

Score = Pulse +2

 

PHA 3 - Both participants spend END and Roll...Pulse rolls a 14, and makes his roll by 10. Gig rolls an 8 making his by 14.

Score = Gig +2

 

PHA 5 - Both participants spend END. Pulse makes a PRE Attack while Pushing his EB and spending an additional 10 END. The PRE Attack is successful by PRE+10 so the GM gives Pulse a total bonus of +4 to the Power Roll. They Roll...Pulse rolls a 12 making his roll by 16. Gig rolls a 12 and makes his by 10.

Score = Pulse +4...one more and he would have won!

 

PHA 8 - Realizing he is in jeopardy of losing the contest, Gig falls back on his Power Skill again and asks the GM what penalty his roll would be at to spread his Blast one hex without losing any dice. The GM assigns a -3 penalty to the Skill Roll. Gig makes it dead on! The GM rules that this kind of shift in blast diameter will give Gig an extra +2 to his Power Roll. Pulse realizes Gig's trick, but cannot risk the END to push again and has no Power Skill of his own to pull tricks with. They Roll...Pulse rolls a lousy 16, but makes his roll by 8, Gig rolls a 12 and makes his roll by 12.

Score = Even.

 

PHA 10 - Gig can feel the momentum shift and decides to pour it on and push his EB providing a +2 to the Power Roll. Pulse wants to end the fight quickly because he is almost out of END, so he pushes as well. The GM notes that Pulse's push will require him to tap into his STUN for END and the GM requires Pulse to make an EGO Roll to exert himself in such a way. Pulse fails the EGO roll and cannot push. The combatants Roll...Pulse rolls a 13 and makes his roll by 11. Gig rolls a fantastic 8 making his roll by 16!!! Thus winning the contest by acheiving the established +5 result. Pulse's blast stream collapses and he takes the full brunt of Gigawatt's attack. The attack Stuns Pulse and knocks him into a nearby water tower so he can cool off.

 

At least that's the way I see it happening in my game...hope that helps...

[Farkling]

I'm not sure Active Points/5 is a good base for the roll. I'd rule for them to roll their power skill as a block mechanism. I think they should definitely have a Power Stunt (skill roll) to use their EB's as blocking weapons.

 

Power Skill + OCV - Attacker OCV. I think. I'll need to ponder a little more.

[Ghost who Walks]

(slightly more awake, and hoping his players don't read these forums)

 

Has anyone questioned the physics behind such an event occuring? Obviously some physical component should be invloved.

 

Example: Cyclops vs. Iron Man's repulsor beams

 

But if that is allowed, then what about bullets impacting each other in midflight? I've probably seen a movie where that occured.

 

Perhaps Levis idea could be used if the powersfhave the same "special effect". Or maybe they would have to have a common origin (rival twin siblings, exposed to the same purple meteorite, bitten by the same radioactive scorpion)

 

The only power where I might actually see this happening (the blocking of an eb with another eb, followed by several phases of struggle, then either a big boom, or a backlash against one of the participants.) is with either magnetic or electrical powers. Think polarity. Ice powers, and "Force" powers are also possible.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Farkling

I'm not sure Active Points/5 is a good base for the roll. I'd rule for them to roll their power skill as a block mechanism. I think they should definitely have a Power Stunt (skill roll) to use their EB's as blocking weapons.

 

Hey! There's a thought. You know, my players don't use the power skill often enough. This is an interesting idea. I'd still want to make sure the special effects were compatible for this then make them do their skill roll. I'll run it by my players next game.

 

I don't like using Missile Deflection as part of it because I'd rather have the ability be like spreading and some of the other things... where it's a native effect of the power. Then if they bought the power with No KB they couldn't do it because the power would have no concussive force.

[Armitage]

Originally posted by bryanb

Any hints at what these say????

 

Contest of Power, pp. 58-60.

Special Effects must be related or directly opposed, i.e. fire vs. fire or fire vs. ice.

The defender uses an available action to attempt to counter the attacker's attack.

Attacker rolls to hit the defender's DCV. Defender rolls to hit the attacker's OCV.

If both hit, the powers meet at a point midway between the two. When one character has a Phase but not the other, the point moves 1" toward the inactive character. When both have a Phase, damage is rolled for both attacks and the point moves (Higher BODY-Lower BODY)" toward the character with the lower roll.

When the point reaches a characteer's hex, they take damage.

END is only spent on a Phase when your opponent acts.

If an attack rolls double the BODY of the other attack it automatically wins.

A Continuous attack moves 1" during Segments when nobody acts. Double Knockback adds 75% to BODY for the Contest. Autofire adds 1 BODY for every shot that hits.

[Kristopher]

This is one of the comic-book staples I make no effort what-so-ever to include in my games. In most cases, it's just silly.

[farik]

Like I said before my suggested mechanic is how I would handle it if it came up on the fly. If a player wanted this kind EB blocking to occur on a regular basis I'd make them purchase missile deflect but I don't think you need to include a power construct in every energy projector just to get this effect. I mean isn't that sort of like punishing a brick for trying to throw a car in the heat of the battle versus the brick who throws things all the time using the an EB with the object of opportunity power construct.

 

If you try to disect every eventuality into a mechanical construct characters just eat up points on situations that almost never arise.

[levi]

Originally posted by farik

...I don't think you need to include a power construct in every energy projector just to get this effect. I mean isn't that sort of like punishing a brick for trying to throw a car in the heat of the battle versus the brick who throws things all the time using the an EB with the object of opportunity power construct...

 

I think that's the point exactly. I have always steered away from Energy Projectors as characters because it always has felt so limiting compared to Martial Artists and Bricks. As if it wasn't enough that STR is the most undercosted ability in the HERO System, it also gets the advantage of being something real and much easier for players and GMs to come to grips with additional uses in game without paying points for them. As a player, I have always felt that EPs get the proverbial shaft.

 

Recently I decided to try playing an EP, his name is Battlestar and he is a Malvan Gladiator turned hero. He has no flight or force field, but he does have an incredibly versatile array of EP Powers...from EBs with every possible advantage to Tunneling, Transformation and Change Environment and of course a hefty Power Skill. I think he is the most versatile EP I have ever seen and I still feel saddled by the fact that the Brick and the MA are more versatile in that they have MANY more options available to them. BTW, Battlestar has a 35 STR because he doesn't have Norm CHAR Max, which is fairly typical in my group. Even non-"brick" characters often have a 30 - 40 STR just because of all the benefits you get from STR. Of course it is always justiied in the character's background, but it still bothers me on some level.

 

Sorry about the rant...

[Rebar]

Like I said before my suggested mechanic is how I would handle it if it came up on the fly.

 

I believe this bears repeating. Playing should be about playing, not about spending points in anticipation of playing.

 

Using the (Active Points / 5) + 9 in place of the STR Roll. Setting a required effect of +5 to win (in other words, one side must succeed in accumulating a total bonus of +5 to win the contest).

 

An alternative that's quite in-keeping with the genre is to have the +'s apply directly to inches of distance from midpoint between the characters. You succeed when you push the beam conjunction all the way to the foe. There would be flavours to this, depending on if you wanted to make a big deal or a small deal of it.

- where is the beam first stopped? probably based on success of initial block roll

- it could take a long time. What if they're, like, 20" or more apart? An accelerating factor would work well. (You get +1 for every 5" from midpoint). Once it starts, it's very hard to reverse it.