incrdbil

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? Count me in. In fact, I'll pay double if I lose.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? Sorry that you seem to be getting frustrated, its not a personal thing. Your assumption about OIF Power armor not being a real limitation is simply wrong. You may as well argue to remove all OIF foci from the game of any FX, or, as someone else more accurately pointed out, never allow any PA type, including Dr. Destroyer and others, to buy armor without the OIF limitation. The limitation focus has nothing to do with walls being broken or not. (There are explicit rules for walls, their defenses, and doing damage to them). There are no rules for 'breaking' power armor not bought as a focus or with any limitation whatsoever. Thats something that won't happened. Power Armor isnt a framework, its a special effect. A simple review of what a power framework is in Hero would sort of point out that they are not made to cater to one special effect.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? I remember one Pa character I had flew into an invisible time warp field of some sort (with zero foreshadowing or clues anything liek that was in the area--complete suprise)--where all items were translated into period appropriate items (Western era, i got soem guns, a Horse, a telescope and a rifle). Non focus powers were not affected. I was unfortunately flying about about 30" of altitude, and promptly fell that distance, taking max falling damage against my very normal ID PD. I was 2 Body from death, but my teammate rolled a 4 on their paramedics roll (with penalties for my massive body loss and lack of equuipment) to stabilize me. Ouch. I spent that game session, and half of the next, roleplaying moaning and being unable to move. I think that represented a limitation of some sort

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? "The villain sees it is the source of your power and can arrange situations where it is not available. Once again, as stated, this can happen to Powered Armor - no limitation." Rarely--if ever, may possibly never happen to PA-no limit. With a focus, its possible every game, certain almost everytime they are captured. "If you are knocked out it can be stolen. This does not require total team KO unless your character is with his teammates 24/7. If you put on, it can be taken off. Strike Two!!!" If it has no limitation, then it can't be taken off--without the owners consent. No limit PA can't be taken off any differently than a mutant vcan have his powers taken away. Perhaps the PA regenerates from his own cells. Perhaps it teleports to him. No strike two at all. " It can also be stolen when you are not wearing it (say, because you are making a trans-Atlantic flight in your secret ID), or it could just get rerouted (luggage does that - or were you taking your 125 pound briefcase full of metal on as carryon - this is a greater drawback for armor than, say, OIF Magic Ring). I am sure your powered armor will pass customs in a commercial flight. I understand your point, but once again same as the regular armor." If its not an obvious focus, theirs no reason the no limit armor wont make it through customs. Perhaps it can fit under normal clothing. Perhaps it can be invisible. again, the focus armor, and the no limit armor are treated differently. "Targeted with attacks, it can be broken. Unless you specifically describe it as unbreakable, the regular power armor can be broken just as easily." No, it can't. If its not a focus, you can't break it "Captain Inherent is in his deathtrap with all his powers available. Powered Armor Man has his wits and his underwear. And that's all he will have until he gets back to the lab to replace his armour, or finds the guy that took it (not an option if it was broken). This may be a while if he's currently trapped in the Alterniverse. And finally, regular power armor guy is in shorts too!!" Regualr power armor guy snaps his fingers, and his armors back on, unless this is the once in a campaign session/power accident where he doesnt have hisarmor. "I agree. And this is why players take the OIF bonus (limitation) because it rarely if ever comes up. You know it and I know it." You claim it. The fact that there is significant, if not universal disagreement with you might indicate that your perspective isn't as common as it seems. the frequency of how often the GM properly utilizes the limitation rules isnt a rules problm, it is a GM skill problem. "The problem is not with the system, but the GM who doesn't enforce it. I agree, that's why I say end the facad now. Make it a Power Framework!!!" Special effect: Power armor doesnt merit a new framework more than mutant powers/ mystic powers/ digestive gas powers merit unique frameworks other than EC, multipoer, or VPP.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? I'm not really understanding you--the special effect 'Power armor' if not bought as an OIF, just straight out, can't be taken away, it can't be daqmaged, it doesn't require parts (and really, the OIF one 'needing parts' wont really come into play unless you've increased the focus disadvnatage to be hard to replace/repair)--and as for Magnetic powers, it can even be questionable then depending on the very description of the Pa--if its of non magnetic materials. non focus Power Armor guy isnt going to be deprived of his abiliyties any more than any other non limited hero is. non Focus Power armor guy cant have his armor removed by dumb thug agents when he's knocked out.--or the villain cant stop him from 'renergizing' or 'teleporting' his armor back to him on a regualr basis (maybe as a very unusual, campaign effect--, if it keeps happeninge, and the GM is applying a limitation unfairly) Villain with OIF power armor--he's knocked out, armor removed, easier to handle. Dr Destroyers' power armor--you cant get it off. you might be able to suppress/drain the effects, but you cant take it away. You'll never find Dr.D sitting in his bath robe without his PA handy. You can't make a called shot on his weapons array and damage it. there is a very distinct difference between Power Armor (no limitation), Power Armor (Hero ID only) and Power Armor (OIF), and not just in the cost of powers.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? I think I replied to you while having the reference frame of disagreement with the original post who didnt see the limitation in power Armor as an OIF.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why? So the rules have to be changed, because your old GM's couldn't, or wouldn't, enforce the rules? Focus is a limit; the approiximation of how limiting in terms of time is just that, an approximation. Just because you have an OIF just doesnt mean the GM should have a stopwatch to make sure you dont have access to your powers for 33% of an encounters--just that he brings home the problems of focus enough so as to make the non focus guys feel happy, and occur in a way to accurately balance out the extra effctiveness the player gets from a focus--qualitative, not quantitative balance is the goal. You could have 5 average games where the focus character is in the fray and not deprived of a power, but then having one game where he's spending the entire fight 'naked', in danger, and the team underpowered is definitely going to stick in his mind and make him envy Captain Inherent Power. Every game can feature minor complications over not having a place to hide his armor, or to change into it--every game a character plays with a breakable focus is a game where the GM can decide to have an NPC attack the focus and damage it. Yes, if the GM never has a villain try to take the focus, never has the hero caught without it, then the player is getting a freebie. He's also being cheated out of good role playing opportunities. Is that a problem with a mechanic for the rest of us? No, its a problem in that particualr campaign with the GM who can't balance the game properly.

Re: HERO 5th Revised "Here's a question that I have for anyone official who can answer it. How hard would it be to make Fred available as a PDF download?" I'm not official, but making the PDF of a product thats basically outmoded is a waste of resources. It might be viewed as unfriendly competiton with the retailer end that you are hoping to carry your product and keep it exposed to gamers as well. " It seems like it might be a workable solution." Fred would be an unworkably large PDF. "I really don't mind paying to get the thing printed" I dont think that many others would be that eager. Companies have no good profit future in printing old editions to appeal of miniscule minorities of the market, no matter how vocal that minority is. "For that matter -- put the FAQ and Additions in a second PDF and charge $15 for that. I'd buy that too." then just buy 5Er--I mean really--you'll pay for Fred, pay for the FAQ and errata..but not buy the one book that puts them all together? "That would be a very neat thing, and should take care of the bulk of complaints I've seen on the boards about this issue." And be a financial bath for DOJ unfortunately, for all 10 copies that would sell. There are plenty of Freds out there to find if you have new payers coming in. You'll get them cheap too, as others offload them and move on to 5ER.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... Well, its not a quote, but a reaction, but here goes. Game set, post apocalyptic--about 150 years after a limited nuclear exchange. Characters are assisting a scientist doing background radiation readings for the area their group will be working in. The 2 characters are products of limited genetic engineering--their lifespan has been estimated to be about 200 to 300 years. This project was secret, so the two characters hadn't shared this information in gnereral. (This was a 'free' Perk the characters were so excited to get) the scietist finished his study and announced, in a joking manner. "Well, good news and bad news: the background radiation count is still elevated, but on the bright side, its not enough to be really harmful, unless you plan to live to be 200 or something." while the other PC's are pretty happy and smiling, the other two just beat their heads into the table. Got to love those free perks

Re: D & D Diatribe I thinkit comes down to this. If there was a good GM who said "you want to play a good game of D&D"--I'd probably say yes. If he said "Would you like to play a good fantasy role playing game system", I'd reply, "oh, so were playing something other than D&D?"

Re: HERO 5th Revised Phrases indicative of a thread going to hell, and argument being made just to argue. " I am willing to bet that" in this case, the assumption is "things have changed just enough to make buying it a necessity. " I have FRED right now. I've looked over, fairly extenisively, the differences, and come to the conclusion its not going to kill me not to have 5th ER. I still plan to get it--the changes are not objectionable, and in almost all respects immedately agreeable to me. But I see no reason why not having 5th ER will render me unable to use newer products. "But, mark my words and mark them well." oh yeah, no one's angry and making a martyr of themselves here. "People argued that d20 v3.5 wasn't an essential." Well, I'll just have to respond with the statement that people argued that the Rolemaster Compendiums I to III were essential --and the experience with that obviously points out that just like your reference to 3.5, ..it has absolutely nothing to do with 5ER. "Show me a single minion of the d20 legion of mindless followers who has actually followed through on their self-commitment to not completely upgrade to 3.5, and I'll show you someone who's out of touch with reality." I invite you to wander over to usenet, where you'll find people who refused to upgrade to 3.5, or 3.0, or 2nd edition, or even first. Out of touch with reality? Minions? Mindless legion? I name you .....Captain Melodrama! Repeat this mantra. Game. Play. Fun. Don't stress so much, you'll live longer.

Re: Stargate Hero Depending on how cinematic you want to be..the Jaffa should have the limitaton "must always march and make make loud metal stomping sounds whenever possible, even if on very small groups." Negative skill levels to stealth? Bonus to Per Rolls? Of course, Master Bretac (sp?) seems like he has some tactical knowledge, and then a knowledge of typical Jaffa tactics, which, from the performance of Jaffa, might be two seperate skills. I think the Jaffa are somethign like the evil warriors in Erik the Viking--they are so used to everyone being afraid, it messes with them a bit when people actually fight them. Their staff weapons weren't desgned to be efficient, but scary, much like their armor.

Re: Embarrasing Power Question transformation and mind control combo power: transformation (bladder to very very full bladder)--and mind control that can only make the "you will go pee right now command"--easy to do, since it hits the 'something the character wants to do' description. you could even mandate the 'target thinks its their own idea limitation), and make the transform invisible. Expensive, yes..but simpy add a level or two of megascale'd area of effect, and you would have the dreaded 'tinkle bomb'. (This is right down Foxbat's alley) Or, the South Park version, the brown noise.

Re: Stargate Hero A note about the SG-1 teams--the 9 years experience versions should have a tad bit of presence defense. They've about seen it all. Plus O'Neil seems to have developed mocking the System Lords to a fine art--a few choice words, and they can't see straight, especially through yet another SG-1 bluff. And maybe some good reputation among a small group--ie, Tokrah, various planets they have visited. I'm not sure how you would do this in HERO, but Jack (and a few other Humans) have the DNA that Ancients technology will respond to and allow them to at least partially operate it.

Re: PRIMUS source book? Another book I must get--Primus, though going to be a bit of an annoyance to my PC's will eventually be an ally once the campaign really heats up.

Re: i feel humiliated Details--character DC's, any unique powers, and how was DD not flattening them with his attacks? His area effects and explosions alone should have totaled them--at 250 they cant have a defense that would stand up to his secondary weapons array, much less hsi primary array. And if by crit you mean maximum damage for rolling a three--well, step one, allow not critical rolls. Step 2--check those dice. Unless that player made a few hundered to hit rolls, that number of results is a tad fishy. Immediate result: The Pc's find out that wasn't the real Dr. Destroyer....

Re: Champs Worldwide: Whaddya want? Well, how about an EU response to Eurostar? I don't think they want the most known pan-european superhuman team to be villains. The villains of Awad seem a natural inclusion.

Re: Building a Campaign for Newbies Thanks--I've made up a yahoo group to keep the members up to date and post all the pre-game info; I'm trying to set the mood by wiritng up a Issue #0 "Origins" bit to establish their prior history with each other. Thanks agains for suggesting that, it is going to akes things easier--and if we ever do another team, they can have their 'first meeting game' as seasoned players.

Re: Building a Campaign for Newbies No Problem—I’m eager for any advice on what sort of snafus newbies can toss up[. Though many of them are comic fans, or familiar with them, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are familiar with good comics. “1) Start with comics. If you don't own, and don't want to buy, the kind of comics you hope to recreate in your campaign, check your local library, or the 25 cent bin at the local comics store. Find things that very closely match the kind of world you want to have. (See below for suggestions on that) “ Easy—the local shop were most hang out is a combo comic/game store. “Insist that the players do their "homework" by reading at least some of these before you even begin to create characters.†I’ll add the appropriate titles—I’ve got a campaign info sheet I’m giving to them prior to the character generation session that’s going to set down the suggested guidelines. I think the top of the list is pretend you’ve never read ‘Spawn’. I’ve also got a lot of building block characters for those who have a concept that they can use as a template, and a starting list of appropriate ‘heroic’ psych disads. “2) Plan a day with each player to create their character, individually, in private, and run through at least a simple scenario. “ Sadly, that’s a logistical impossibility. I can arrange to meet most of the players informally for a bit to discuss characters, and the first session will probably be a final character generation/campaign setting scenario. “Players that aren't used to the Superheroic Genre will often act like they are The Punisher with a better gun. They will see no reason not to just kill anyone who gets in their way.†I’ve already had one concept about a player slowly ‘being changed by forces†that would force him to roll an ego roll when he tries to kill someone (!!!)..and that eventually he will change a psych disadvantage to code of the heroâ€â€”I gently explained why that wouldn’t work. “You need to let the players get the feel of being Heroes. Give them the chance to actually do some good.†The first scenario is definitely scripted to be a big ego/morale booster at the end, with plenty of laurels. Perhaps I was too menacing sounding with the ‘Chicago Way’ Description—I was more inspired by the line from the Untouchables than anything else—the PC’s will definitely be on the side of the good, the bad guys will be bad—the atmosphere I was wanting to create was that the Superhuman fights in Chicago were rougher, harder, and that the police and local government were occasionally willing to turn a blind eye if the PC’s are facing down real menaces the system just can’t handle. “Hmm, so, you got Blowtorch to tell us where the incendiary bombs were hidden in the school buildings. Wonderful! Oh, looks like he fell down a lot of stairs. Terribly clumsy of himâ€. So, not goody two shoes, but still definitely good guys, just living in a rough town. “For instance, you could have UNTIL gradually become corrupt and/or anti-metahuman over the course of the campaign, due to internal problems, outside influence, etc. rather than having the players start in a world where basically everything was against them.†The plan right now is to let the players sort of see that slow change happen via news stories, and infrequent encounters—meeting good people at Until, even if there are some not so friendly, and the big warning sign being that person being fired/basically exiled to a desk job after some time, losing the person the felt really was their good contact with the organization. It won’t start out with Until tagging and bagging US superheroes. “4) I would start out with the idea that the team is already formed. Let the players know that they are building a Team Member, not an Individual Hero.†I usually have avoided that—just a personal bias, I am reluctant to force them together like that, it seems to rob them of a once in a campaign moment, the initial meeting, where first mpressions, comments, actiosn can become traditions in a short span of time.. But then my generation guidelines are sort of set up in a team conscious way—guaranteeing each PC is tops in one certain area, and avoiding duplicate characters. Working out that they have at least an informal working relationship, they know of each other, how to contact each other would make things easier. I had to significantly make events in the first section aimed towards the herding affect, and it would be much simpler and quicker if they had already worked with each other. I may just do that. Thank you for making me reconsider the advantages of that approach.

Re: Building a Campaign for Newbies Well, after much soul searchiong--and realization of time constraints, I decided to not 'f'ictional City'--but went with Chicago. I've downloaded and printed out several travelguides worth of info, maps, copied maps from an Atlas. It's a good location, size--close enough for my eventual visit to the big MC by the characters.. Plus it's got that chicago mystique--call me influenced by the Blues Brothers. Ferris Bueller, the Cubs, and the Untouchables. The campaign is going to average out to a Bronze age..with hints of Silver still about, and edges of Iron age. For these heroes, their will be the right way, the wrong way..and then the Chicago Way. A city where the voting publice believes in voting early, and voting often, even if they are dead. A straw poll shows a unanimous rejection by the PC's of being 'registered' superheros--complying with the US laws, so that helped narrow down team focus. I'm going to use aspects of the 'threat so big they have to team up' with the mysterious benefactor approach to forge them into a team. One change/alteration I might make..IIRC, some cities still allowed small, privately contracted protection agencies, almost like private police. I may try to manufacture some unique chicago ordinance that gives them some leeway, while letting them skirt the registration laws--putting the team on the Primus naughty list..and eventually on the UNTIL very naughty list, and settign up the eventuall conflict with UNTIL. (In this ccampaign, the only differenc ein the end between UNTIL and VIPER will be uniform colors--I may still include the IIST concept, but more and more I'm thinking of putting the focus on UNTIL, and making the UN mainly metahuman unfriendly, or at least US metahuman unfriendly). Since these are newbies, I thought I could indulge in the Classics villains for their first fight--so the Ultimates are coming to Chicago to play; I'll pick some objective worth taking (Federal Reserve banks are always nice), and set the Pc's on a course for their first fight--their hopeful victory thus attracting the attention of their 'benefactor' who provides resources, a base, connections, and a long running plot hook. I'm not decided if he's evil yet, but I'm leaning...yeesh, enemies with Primus, UNTIL, then their benefactor, why do i see 'paranoia' psych disads beign added in the future? I'll start with the series of disastersmysteriosu accidents, giving each PC their own to cover, and clues to find that, when they get together, may allow them to figure out who the villains are. (to overcome their Pc lack of familiarity, but not let it all come down to a skill roll and giving them a name, I've made mini dossiers on lots of villains, and they should be able to put the clues together and come up with the Ultimates after they review them.) Thats the plan--thansk for all those who chimed in with suggestions. I might just give a small report on hwo it goes--its not often I get the pleasure of such a newbie dominated group.

Re: If AVLD, why not DVLA? Thats fine too. The discussion is about making a new power, but it seems bogged down in debates about the base power. If the points model of Desol is what you are looking at, go for it. If you use Dr to derive your base cost, thats fine as well. Whats the base power trying to be made? Invulnerability. The job isnt just tied up in what its based off, but to decide if you have selected a base value that reflects its worth, and the mechanics of the new power. Affect--a character with invulnerability takes no damage from attacks of a certain FX. Regardles if the basic point base you decide to use is modeled from Desol or DR, you come up with base point total X. At this point, you can forget about rules compications for those powers, be how it affects the normal world, killing vs normal damage, AP, penetrating and levels of hardened defenses if you used the certain amount of defense basis. Make the dicision if Invulnerability is automatically Inherent or not, it at default mode it costs end, doesn't cost end, is persistant if its not inherent. My preference would be to make it inherent, (persistant only if you want curses, spells, or effects that can make a subject no longer invulnerable). Now, how do we modify X, the base cost of INV? INV is vs a very rare FX --reduce X by a certain limitation/adder. INV is vs a uncommon FX --base cost INV is against a common FX increase X by an advantage/adder (after adding a million stop/warning/not for PC signs to the description) Decide if you can buy more than one INV. Decide if having more than one INV is buying the power again, or an advantage/adder. If you decided that INV is normally inherent, whats the modification if you make it not inherent.? Now decide if you want adders, or advantages/limitations to cover the rest..work up your values. Invulnerability is overcome by attacks of DC Y Invulnerability isn't against/only against Killing attacks Invulnerability affects Mental Powers Invulnerability affects Adjustment powers Invulnerability affects Entangles or other special powers. (being able to walk through a fire based force wall, for example) (If you think Invulnerability should already include the above, then figure up something for Invulnerability bought that doesn't affect them). Add normal modifiers as appropriate--Focus. Charges, whatever. To me, the more that its been discussed it doesn't matter what anyone uses. I've at least figured out for myself what I would want Invulnerability to do if I ever used it, and the origin of its base cost isn't as important anymore. Hmm, had an amusing thought--could you use a triggered AID or transformation that, upon taking damage from a certain FX either heals you to start or transforms you to an undamaged state? Might have to toss in the automaton "Cannot be stunned". Not to serious here--just pointing out that there's multiple ways to figure out a starting point--or you could forget looking at any other power and do it from scratch. but I will admit, you miss out the fun of squabbling this way.

Re: If AVLD, why not DVLA? Making it an adder to Desolid doesn't quite seem to work--the adder has the same cost for a character with no attacks, or ton of them; the adder is changing the performance of those attacks; they once worked like this, now they work like that. After re-reading the section on creating new powers, i think we're all worrying too much about the base power; define the new power and its effect, try to get a points cost that seems fair based of an example power, then tweak it. Decide if their are various levels of immunity that can be trumped by an advantage, or by certain points of attack, if the power is inherent, and how much more should you pay for an absolute immunity if you decide their should be a standard immunity, then levels of immunity more durable than others. If you use Desol (bought to 0 end, always on, and all that jazz) as a point base, thats fine, just stop worrying about the 'affects solid world' component; if you use damage reduction as base that works as well. There's not going to be any consensus on what it should be anyway; we cant even all agree that immunity should be present, and for those who want it, they are going to have to decide the points cost for their campaign, and availability. So if they have to decide that as well, the method they use is going to be their own. So we'vve got three schools of invulnerability. The "set amount of defenses= effectively invulnerable' school, the desol school, and the damage reduction school. Method one has a point cost unique to each GM's campaign, while the other two have a base cost thats been at l;easy partly established on the thread, which the GM then has to decide is too costly/not costly enough for his campaign, and how exactly he wants invulnerability to work. The desol school has the strength that its mention as a possibility in the rules, the DR school has a certain ease and elegance to it. I think thats as close as were going to git on this very finicky issue, though its been a wonderful exploration of tinkering and power creation.

Re: 2 for 1: Figured characteristics with a focus, and Rapid Fire.

Re: 2 for 1: Figured characteristics with a focus, and Rapid Fire. Just a difference in styles. I don't see why I should have to buy my figured characteristics to offset the points saved from the focus--the possibility (nay, certainty) that I'll be facing times without my focus (and those stats) is trade off enough! That's effectively taking a limitation and getting no cost savings from it. (and perhaps enough to push the player away from a power armor concept to yet another "Hero ID only"/alternate form type. I can see some merit in the argument that its the same person in the suit, and X amount of damages getting past their defenses should knock them out just the same as in their normal identity. If it was just an ordinary bullet proof vest worn by martial artists/ non power armor gadeteers, that would certainly be the case, and I really wouldn't find any CON bought for them via focus (no figured char disasdvantage or not) appropriate.

Two items I wanted to ask others about, thought I'd be economical with one thread. While taking advantage of some idle time, I was filling out some campaign info sheets, and going over optional combat manuevers. I glanced at Rapid Fire, an option that truthfully I hadn't used before. Of all the optional moves, this is the one I'm the most hesitant over. (I'm tinkering a bit with Dive for Cover vs non area attacks). Any one have anything good or bad to say about the impact of Rapid Fire on a supers game? Seems that if everyone started using it, defenses would be almost pointless, and it would be an arms race of levels, lightning reflexes, and attacks to rapidfire with, especially autofire attacks with big charges or reduced end, probably bought to a few dice NND, or a few dce with penatrating. I'm probably going to give it a whirl and see what happens, I was just wondering if I'm being overly cautious. item #2 Looking over CKC, CU, and Champions, and the first character submissions I have, how does everyone feel on Power Armor characters taking the 'does not add to figured characteristics" limitations on primary stats--I'm honestly going to reccomend the player not take it, since he's bought up a lot of stats that would be affected anyway, and it is to the point his limitation pretty much the same as if he bought the powers outright. I might even let him sell back his CON based endurace through the focus (of course, reduced in the points granted by back by double the focus limitation--ie, if he sold back 20 END granted via +10 CON from an OIF, the -10 points would be reduced by double the OIF modifier, down to 5 points). He's got an endurance reserve anyway for most of his powers, save his unaugmented strength and a few other gadgets. It's a little something, and can only be done for one characteristic. Of course, if I see everyone doing that and buying END reserves, I'll know I made the wrong call. It seems a fairly standard convention through the write ups, but I can't figure out why since its often to the detriment of the character. Perhaps if the limitation were a -1 for STR and CON, and 1/2 for everything else, it wouldn't be as bad. Again, I'm just interested in the opinions of others. I like power armor characters, and in 2 decades of playing them, I've never used (or had a GM ask me to use) doesn't affect figured characteristics.