simplygnome

Re: Tales of the RedShirt First off, that was very masterful writing. The story was crisp, entertaining, and flowed very well. Second, I really like the detail and realism that seemed to go on in your campaign. The small details, when brought into light, turn a standard "giant spider" encounter into an actual story, with real world effects. Excellent work.

Re: Eberron Hero Awesome work. I'd love to see the Articifer, myself. I am doing an Eberron converstion as well, although I am skewing the world. The magic system is no where NEAR D&D, and theres none of this FEATS bull-honkey either. My "conversion" is really more just idea theft, but you've done a great job so far. =P I'm having trouble making the Articifer fit into my world, yet I love the concept.

Re: new dup/MF/sum/follower system proposal (LONG) You certaintly have put a lot of thought into this. I'll give you that much... There are several good points being made here, and a few more I think I'll add. ---------------- First off, Paige Oliver is correct in saying that points do no scale equally. If I spend 65 points of a 300pt character to create TWO duplicates (60 + 5 x2 dups.), I now have 3 Characters at 235pts. On the other hand, my Brick friend uses his CPs to buy 75% resistant damage reduction to all physical attacks.... I know have 3xs the HP (divided between my clones) but I take 4 TIMES the amount of damage he does. These two are fairly balance IMHO. One good AOE attack has the chance of defeating my "trumph card" while my friend has a rather large chance of surviving. ------------------ Second, in FH and Champions alike, Metamorph and Dup are not always the end-all-be-all of the character. In certain cases, like what you've demonstrated, it can be. Going back to Tommy, my slightly delusional hero friend I talked about in the other thread. His one "trumph" power was his hero team of duplicates. This left me with around 150pts (as I spent 50 on innane skills and attrib) to play with. I built a multipower based on other "heroic" encounters from Team Fantastic. I had +12" of speed, with the special effect of having "Lightning Quick" zoom in from out of no where, pick up the you lad, and run off. I had several other situational powers that, while they couldnt be used with my duplicates out (because of my special effect), still came in handy. Refering to your Multi-man, why not try making his Multi-persona separate from his other powers. Make one multi-power pool with the other powers (desolid, etc etc) and then make your Duplicates, so that EACH of them has asses to the other powers in the pool. It will be a bit more expensive, but an interesting idea. Even if you want to go with the original idea, I dont see the current rules as being "clunky". In actualiy, if you're building all of your powers in multi-power so you can only use one at a time, then only the MAIN character is using a power (which is duplicate), and the other two have their power pools open to use any of the other powers (other than DUP) they want. Worse comes to worse, you can always use altered duplicates. ----------------------- There does come a time when a large transformation, however, is wanted. Lets look at Ryoh-ohki, the lovely Cabbit (rabbit-cat *thing*) from Tenchi Muyo. It went from a ?? 25 ?? point CAT, to a roughly 1000 point startship. Interesting character concept, not abused in the anime, and useful when its time came (no one flew a starship around in the atmosphere, so it was situational). -------------------------- Worse comes to worse, you can always "dump" points if it doesnt fit your concept. Its an odd thing to do, but I'd rather do that 5% of the time, than have my other concepts considered rules illegal because I dont have the points to build them. Anyhow, good luck in your points testing, regardless.

Re: multiform - is this for real? Glad you're getting inspiration for 'lil 'ol us... I agree with Rapier, but I do see your point Alibear. Once again, there are great concepts out there that could warrant spending over the characters points in multi-form. I too would disallow the MegaMan character, but there are many others that I would let by, given the right reasons. For the Dragon transformation example, I can see allowing a 75 + 75 mage to stay in a 500pt power form to be totally overpowered. However, if the mage had: 1) to use rare and (hazardly) dangerous to aquire components (say the corpse of a pheonix, somehow contained from self-exploding of course, a scale from seven different dragons, and a branch from a living Oak-Treant lord) 2) took two weeks to complete the ritual, during which he was completely concentrating on the preparations with barely enough time to each and sleep (not to mention bath) 3) required a skill roll (every hour) to maintain control of the dragon 4) while also gaining side effects of dragon Psychological Limitations of compulsion and greed then I would agree. It really all depends on how you build your character and what you plan to do with it...If its an obvious abuse, then of course I limit it, but I dont like to make blanket statements. If I DO make a flat confining rules decision, then I usually add "unless otherwise specified by me...Feel free to put out ideas, and I'll give you the thumbs up or thumbs down...". In a current campaign I'm working on, I'm creating multi-form spells in the Druidic tradition line. Since the character points are only 50+25, Im allowing the spell to bypass the original character point limit (heavily modified and put in a framework to make it affordable, of course). One particular spell is transformation into a 150pt bear form, and a ??? pt unicorn and/or wyvern form (I havent made the last two yet, but Im almost sure theyre in the upards of 175++). They are, of course, heavily limited in duration and useability, and come with their own disadvantages....But they are being balanced out, so I feel comfortable letting it into my campaign. For a more "superhero-y" example, I made a character completely based on Duplicates. I literally spent 120 ISH pts (max for powers them was 50) of a 250pt character on the Duplicates. The remaining pts went into creating the rest of the character, which was a normal child, comic fan-boy, of age 13. I made a total of three duplicates (each 250pts each...pts EQUAL to the other PCs), all using the altered duplicate advantage. However, the main character, while using the power, was unconscious (total concentration, with no memory of the incident) while using multi-form and could ONLY activate it if he saw or knew of "immediate" danger in the area (He had to practiacally be traumatized. If he thought the rest of the party might survive the encounter, he couldnt even try to help them, therefore, he was left out of several missions, because he couldnt activate his powers). If the "original" died, the duplicates would immediated disperse. Certaintly I went above and beyond my point cap, and some of the other players, but I was certaintly not the "hero of heroes" as it were, because of my disadvantages, and rather "squishy" nature. I made sure that I was situationally used, and not able to abuse the rights the DM had given me (hey, I had 12 body...I got KOed once from being hit with a high velocity baby cart...dont ask =P). -------------------------------- ((The character, for those that want to know, was Tommy Garner, an avid comic fan and super hero enthusiest. Unknown to him, he posses latent reality control powers, able to alter the order around him to fit his needs. When he was playing in his father's office building he accidentially saw Mentallia kill a high ranking official. She quickly turned on the little boy, to erase all witnesses. In his frightened state, Tommy passed out, and his powers manifested themselves in one of the most natural forms Tommy's subconscious could think of --- the form of SUPERHEROES. On the spot, three badly drawn (and CRAYOLA colored), cheesy dialect ridden, heros "flew in" to save the day, thus Sergent Freedom, Mistress Magica, and Fantastic Elastic were born. Creating a super group know as The Fantastics, they beat back Mentallia into retreating and have since stayed hidden in the shadows, always diving in out of no where to help out their junior side-kick, Tommy.))[/i] -------------------------------------- All in all, however, if it works for you then fine... Its not called the Ultimate Gamers Toolkit for nothin'

Re: Hooray for Newbies! why are you suddenly here? I think it has to do with more and more people being slowly brain drained by the all powerful D20 system....Slowly, they will see the light =P

Re: multiform - is this for real? Blackjack, thank you very much for the positive words. =D Secret ID, you're not being a pest at all. I know EVERYONE that has played/plays the hero system runs into a rules problem at some time in their career. You're doing the right thing....Heck, I learn new tricks from new players all the time... The fact is that MF IS tricky in that you can't just cap off a limit and let it go free. It must be monitored by the DM in its use and concept. In the same way you say that limiting MF will restrict some of the "cooler" things it can do later on, every power gets restricted that way. For example, when a hero campaign puts any limit (like your proposed 75pts) on a power, they limit at least one "cool" special effect that could have taken place for almost every power. What if I wanted to make a final destruction move with upper levels of EB and add in huge AOE, but added -8 in disadvantages? I still couldn't break the limit or get the desired effect that I wanted, because of the hardcap...no matter how I built the power, even if I tried to make it a "fair" power. Maybe in this case its warranted, but in another I wanted to make a "luck" based superhero, and the 50 pt cap set by the GM overthrew my concept. He specifically let me break this, because it was for concept. On another, I liked making wizards with very rare, difficult to use, and self-harming magic. With an upward of -5 in disads on each spell, I wanted magic that would be WORTH all the penalties I took, including side effects and extra time. Putting a cap (this one was 40, for a heroic) really didnt show my character the way I wanted it to...It sorely gimped him by making his magic so weak, compared to the penalties. By building him fairly and presenting him to the DM, I got him approved...Because I took appropriate limitations to compensate for having an almost non-existant cap. This wouldnt have been done without GM moderation (then again, fantasy is a whole different ball game... =P) When ANY hardcap is used, it will add limitations to all powers. What about the roleplayers that want to add "invisible" or other adders, that dont overly powergame, just because it adds "flair" or fits their "concept"? Should they be punished with a weaker character because they didn't powergame and only add "the best" adders? They are limited in the same way that MF is limited if you set a hard cap....to prevent powergaming they are reduced in versatility and are cut off from other "non-munchkin" uses. The basis is that the Hero system requires a real sharp DM eye on things, REGARDLESS of the power. On an end note...When you or your friends (ie, not the large scale PBEM) get together and play, you should discuss this with them and tailor it to your need. I'd have no problem playing in a campaign that did so...I just don't see a reason to do it in mine....Good luck though...

Re: multiform - is this for real? While the Hero System is a great tool, it has several balancing problems if taken at face value. As the "Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit" it provides a GM or player base to create a world/system that fits their playstyle(s). The problem with Multiform is that it can be abused if left un-checked by the GM. However, the same goes for many other powers in the Hero System. For example, lets look at sweep. A Sweep allows a character to attack as many times as he'd like to in a turn, but take a -2 to each attack, cumulative, when doing so. Every smart player, at some time in his/her career, has had the ingenious idea of buying CSLs at 5pts a lvl (5 is the lowest point value of CSL that can have disads), with the -1 advantage of ONLY FOR USE WITH SWEEP. Lets buy, say 60pts worth of anti-sweep CSLs, with another random -1 of your favorite disads, and we have +12 to our OCV for the effect of degating up to 6 extra attacks per Phase, all for a mesely 20pts. Now we have just effectively turned our large BRICK powerhouse, into a Speedster Brick, with 280 pts (assuming we're going off of 300pt total) to spend on powerhousing and body slams. Heck, lets add some Martial Arts in there while we're at it =P. However, any GM who's idea for the campaign is not at that level of pure power would, and HAS, simply dissallowed it, for balancing issues. Many GMS will do the same for transformations, multiforms, and duplicates. Another balancing factor with Multi-form is the "pants down" issue. While most heros dont mind taking OIHID or other such powers, many do not like the ability to be cause without his/her defenses. For example, we're building Magnetron, who has the control over magnetism and metal. He can use his magnetic energy to transform himself into Auto-maton, a large metallic creature whose body is created from magnetically charged hunks of scrap metal that Magnetron finds around the scenery. In his original for Magnetron is a decent Blaster like character with some mild TK, a few flight maneuvers, and maybe a small forcefield. Now in Auto-maton form, he is a hulking mass of twisted metal, with high PD/ED, BDY, STR, and a few special defenses/attacks. Evil villian #1 shoots a large ion cannon (of evil) at our new hero for 8d6 killing damage. If he is in his original form, Magnetron will most likely fall quickly under the blast. Even with his FF, Magnetron probably can't stand against that kind of pure damage. While in Magnetron form, however, he would easily withstand the blast. Many superheros just dont want to deal with the idea of being caught with his defenses down. Magnetron wont be as good of manipulator or blaster as someone who uses ALL of his/her points on magnetic control, but he will have a specialty "brick" form IF he changes in time. As it states in FReD, the new form should have its own set of disadvantages as well. Many GMs will make the players create disadvantages so that the player will not beable to stay, or will not WANT to stay, in his altered form forever. For example, Magnetron while in Auto-maton for has take the physical diabilities of weighing over 3,500 lbs, and standing in at 14'6". You can see how this would make normal living much harder to accomplish. On top of that, Magnetron is spending so much of his energy in keeping the form together that he doesn't have the fine manipulation to create a moveable jaw for Auto-maton, therefore he cannot speak while in his power-form. Auto-Maton is in the middle of an epic battle with Serpenta, when the Police Department shows up. Looking at the hulking tower of twisted metal, they assume the worst and open fire. Without ability to talk, he'll have to revert back to Magnetron, giving Serpenta the upper hand while he is in his less defensive state. Another bit of GM ruling I've seen has been to limit the power selection for characters who take multi-form. We have Super Dan, a natural Tank and Brick based character, and Magnetron, a magnetic manipulating genius. While Magnetron is mainly a blaster based character with several tricks up his sleeve, Super Dan is nothing more than a large muscular brick. The GM rules that since Super Dan in the true BRICK, he has access to all defense abilities and such, while Magnetron and his Auto-Maton form is prohibited from taking Damage Reduction (and maybe a lower limit to his PD). While Mags. Brick form might be built on 375 points and SDs only 350, SD will be a MUCH better brick, while Magnetron will be more of a "versatility" tool than anything else. Mainly, when looking at balance, a GM and a player have to check: 1) What genre is being played 2) What the general playerbase is playing/allowed to play 3) What the overal competition will be... MANY sections of the Hero system are not taken at face value in most of my campaign. Sweep, Damage Reduction, Two-weapon fighting, ALL matrial arts, attacks while desolidified, the auto-fire adder, OIHID, and many MANY others. This is really just a GM balance issue. For more abuses, check out this thread to see a few other "legal" abuses that can be done "by the rules". Honestly, I have never had a problem with multiform in my campaigns...Than again, you are looking at a rather LARGE PBEM game, so things might be a bit different. You're dealing with a rather larger playerbase. Hope this helps...Have fun.

Re: Kill-Master General The only direct rules problem I see is that a multi-form is suppose to be built on the same points as the original form....If I'm not mistaken. Other than that, its all up to DM interpretation of what will fly (which, once again, stipulation 3 works well for). ----------- As far as an "expendable" focus...Expendable doesnt really mean destroyed. It means that its no longer usable as a foci, and you have to find a new foci. It doesnt have to be evaporated in a puff of smoke. The "foci" is destroyed (ie, the items usability as a foci) but not nessecarily the physical item itself. Thats my interpretation...

Re: Kill-Master General I am making a complete abuse of stipulation 3: 3. You can be as munchkinistic as you like so long as the build is rules legal. Also, I hope most of you here are strict constructionists =P. The Knowledge of Destruction: Power Skill - Proffesional Skill (Executioner) 3pts; Usable as attack (+1), 6 AP. Now, on pg. 177 of FRED, it states that a character with Usable as Attack can (under DMs permission, which is what I assumed stipulation 3 gave me) "force a power on another character, AND CONTROL HOW THAT POWER IS USED". A skill is "an ability characters have learned or were trained to perform" (pg 26 FRED). I therefore, grant Major Justice the ability of killing people effectively, and then ("AND CONTROL HOW THAT POWER IS USED") dictate that the power is used on himself....by himself. Therefore, since he is the attacker, the DCV is 0 and it is essentially a suicide move performed by the target. Instant death, one segment, one endurance (one end by me...no clue how much endurance Mr.Hero will be spending on his attack...but then thats not my problem). This is no different than giving a character fly and dictating that he flys in a specific direction (the example given in FRED, pg 177). It gives him a power, and then specifically tells him how to use it. I "gave him the POWER" (the SKILL to kill) and "Controlled how that power was used" (the skill is used on himself). Power stated, use stated. Now, I have to give a reasonable defense for my usable as attack. For uncontrolled flying FRED dictated that it was unusable by any character with flight, desolidification, or Power Defense. I will then give my power the inability to affect people with PS: Executioner, PS: Asassin, Psychological Limitation: Adverse to Killing, Psychological Limitation: Truely Innocent, and an intelligence of less than 10 (They cannot grasp the knowledge correctly on how to kill themselves. They do not have the intellect to comprehend the knowledge and technique). Im sure other defenses could be found, if needed. If you think your target is so incompetent that they cannot kill themselves on the first try (=P), you can always add Constant (+1) and Uncontrollable (+1), for a total of 10 AP. Now you can make your target attempt to kill himself for each time you spend the endurance cost (which is one... =P). For the first person to find a rules flaw in this plan, I have to say..... *rasberry* I tried.... =P EDIT: Oooh, or how about PS: Doctor, and dictate that he gives himself a triple bypass...on the spot...without tools or medication... =P Or even KS: Suicide???

simple solutions Im glad to see that someone had the same problems that I did! I struggled for weeks trying to figure out the purpose of those useless stat packagings!! However, there are several reasons why they prove to be useful. First off, some HERO GMs require their players to spend a majority of their points on packages, using only the leftovers as freebies. This encures a more "D&D" feel to the game and can give some players more "freedom in restriction". For example, a DM requires you to buy at least two packages, one for you race and one for your proffession. If I have 75 character points to spend and my "ORC" package is 30, while my "DARK PALADIN" package is 38, then you can see how few points I have left over...just enough to "customize" but not enough to really boost my character to UBER power (unless youre a really good point monger *evil laughter at the thought of slaughtered townspeople*). In this instance, almost ALL of your stats will be in packages. -SOME- GameMaster like this idea, while others think that this overrides the purpose and utilitarian design of the HERO system. Its just a different way to play... ------------------ In my campaigns, I don't create many packages or use the above method, but find that using stats in them works by allowing them to override the maximum limitation values. For example, a particular DWARF package costs 15 points, with 35 points in characteristics and abilities balanced out by 20 points in disadvantages and limitations (35 - 20 = 15). So this particular game is a 75 point game with 50 points base and 25 points to be bought in limitations. This player spends 15 of his 75 on the DWARVEN package. Those disadvantages of being a DWARF dont count toward his 25 point limit - Theyve already been taken out of the package cost. So in actuality, the player is getting more points worth -- 25 standard disadvantage points and an extra 20 points in dwarven specific limitations. In actuality, the DWARF package should out the character 35 total points if he were to just buy the abilities outright. This, of course, only works in games with a set limitations limit. It seems to get things done, and balances well if done right. As previously stated, I usually create a small handful of racial packages - the characters usually buy everything else (GM moderated of course) I hope some of these ideas shed some light on the situation. As with everything in this lovely game.... take it or leave it, GMS OPTION!!!!

But the choices...?? Definately sounds like a valid game, although I wouldn't bother looking at the d20 supplement. Its my opinion that the supplement is crude, unbalanced, and not worth getting. It IS a good idea springboard, but I think that any competent HERO worshiper should beable to convert the game directly. The main question I have is regarding the classes. Would you keep the current classes, or would you let the players create new ones that stick to the theme; or even create a whole new set of your own? Are you just using the world idea with Diablo, or the skill tree system as well? That would require you to catalouge each skill prior to the game starting. On the other hand, you could just let players buy different skills with XP, regardless of the DII theme, but less time consuming. Also, the idea of NON-combat skills come into play All in all, the idea sounds fun, and THANK YOU VERY MUCH (note the playful sarcasm) for getting me thinking about a DII Hero game...my players read the post over my shoulder and are now clammering for me to start a game Good luck with your game!

Im confused as to the use of two weapon fighting, as the skill or as a special effect of sweep. Fighting with multiple weapons requires you to off-set your off-hand penalty vie Two-Weapon Fighting (10pts) or the AmbiDexterity skill (9 pts), but is otherwise identical to Sweep, or Rapid Fire Couldn't I just use Sweep to hit multiple attackers with a single weapon, instead of using two? I could just buy Negative Skill Penalties, or just more OCV. If character with a long sword can sweep attack 4 times at a -6 and my character using TWO long swords can attack 4 times at a -6 (or -4 if I was using TWF for a 10 character point charge), why should I bother with that second weapon? Now, my 1940's superhero, ShadowShot, gets benefit for using his double uzi's, simply because he spends less ammo from a single gun. Other than that, why should he use two, if he can just Rapid Fire multiple times with one...and just buy off his negatives or increase his OCV through skills? Not only do my characters get an extra hand to use, they spend less point by just Rapid Fire/Sweeping multiple times. I appologize if I've misread the rules, and thanks for your time..!!!