simplygnome

Re: Need help with character build using multiform The problem Im seeing though, with the above examples, is that his "final form" isnt really going to be any more powerful than a character who just spent their points normally. In this case, he has the limitation that he cannot access his "most powerful" form unless he goes through several rounds of combat, been beaten thouroughly, etc etc etc...and in the end, he really doesnt get any major bonuses because the points he gets on the Lim. seem to just go right back into making this trick multiform character. A character who just buys a large bruiser with his full points will be just as powerful, and WONT have to sit through many annoying flashy transformation scenes. Id say buy a ton of abilites and stats, and make a special form of the Gradual Effect, only to activate the first time, yet scale it to reflect the different forms. Meh...Im not sure. Nice concept though...*cough DBZ*

Re: easy Desolid. question. Thanks Champs. Yes, I did check the FAQ and I didnt see anything, although I might have missed it. Im the player in this case. Actually, Im looking more at MindControl (and an AOE mind control for the machine class only) and possible one EGO attack. If you want a run down of the character, its in the Champions Thread under Its all 1s and 0s baby!.

Logarithm is a tech based mentalist character. He has a unique ability to transform himself into pure information, and attack computers, mundane electronics, and even a human's brain waves. From here, I'll give him a nice MPP with various mentalist special effects, mind control, ego attacks, etc. The special effect for the character Im going for is that he turns into "virtually" invisible information, and "accesses" the target, taking control of its functions by overriding its previous information... Right now I am simulating his "information form" by taking Invisibility to almost all sense groups (except Radio, which I want to beable to detect me) with no fringe (somewhere near 110AP I think..I have it written down) and then having a Desolidification (affected by any data draining, erasing, or scrambling abilities) linked to it. He would also have Life Support, and possible some extra senses himself...(Note, in the Invisibility power, I did not buy the Touch group because the book says that Desolid. takes care of that...correct?) This basically makes me non existant to the actual world. Im not sure if this is the best way to do it, or how to really simulate that he has to "go inside" others for his powers to work. I was thinking of just making the MPP require contact, so Id have to be practically ontop of the target to active my powers.......Can you make a close combat EGO grapple? =P Also, what would I do for a power that allows me to control machines and electronics, not just those with robotic brains (ie, activate TVs, make cars run, turn lights on and off, etc). Perhaps AOE TK, only on machines and electrical devices, only to make them operate as they normally could (-1?). Hmm, or would a mind control still work. Id like to beable to take control of power armors and such too, pilot or no. Anyways, any help with this part, or more ideas for the MPP would be appreciated....Perhaps theres another way to accomplish this special effect that I haven't noticed.... NOTE: Another thing...Im only working with 250 pts here =P

Ive played Hero for a little while now (Im still a baby compared to some of you...Think Im going on...4?...years now), and up until now I've managed to avoid dealing with the power Desolidification, believe it or not. My question is, do Ego and Mind based attacks (mind control, BOECV, etc etc) have to take Affects Physical World to be used while a character is Desolidified? Now, people Desol. still take damage from mental attacks, so why not the reverse? Ive looked through the book (Fred) and all I get is "he cannot effect the physical world unless prevoiusly stated" yet most of the examples only talk about physically touching the real world, not mentally. Am I right, that mental based abilities can be used while Desold, without an anvantage? Thanks in advance for the info....

Re: Runes... two types! I agree with CO. A multipower would only be a few points more, and would follow the rules nicely. In either way, the spells are nicely done.

Re: Racial Disadvantages

Re: Racial Disadvantages *Double post..my bad*

Re: Racial Disadvantages I disagree strongly with almost everything said above. Different races in a fantasy (or alien races for sc-fi) game give the world flavor, and your players a myriad of rping options. Racial packets in Heroic based fantasy games are extremely important for me and my players for three main reasons. Variation - If dwarves are known to be stockier and more resilient than humans..then they should be. Elves have a propensity toward magic, and orcs are characteristically MUCH stronger than humans. In an open system like hero, where you can buy virtually any characteristic you want to the specific level, characters tend to "blur" together. Sure dwarves are supposed to be resiliant, so I buy up some resistant defense and up my body and con to 16 each...but the human fighter, wanting extra defense, buys the same and now theres no individuality between the two based on race...My orc is suppose to be stronger, but when the human warrior also buys a 20 str..what do I do to make myself stronger that a human cant do> Roleplaying - In a standard fantasy game, where players get a limited number of disads (say 75+75), I HATE having other races use up 30 or so points on disads that dont really individualize a character. Certaintly it shows the differences of the character based on race, but with only 75pts to play with, I encourage each of my players to "fleshout" their character as much as possible with them, creating unique and flavorful backgrounds. Taking 45 points worth of "pointy ears" just dilutes gameplay.... Points Balance - Using elves as an example, I find that playing a different race in Hero actually subtracts from the characters ability to be effective, if you just take racial disads out of the base. Elves are characteristically smart, beautiful, and charismatic. So we'll buy up a +1 int and +2 pts in Com, and a +1 in Pre. They are also a bit quicker, so I'll take +1 dex, for 3 pts. Now they can see in the dark and are ultra perceptive, so we spend about 9 pts in total getting low light vision and some extra perception. On top of that, they are known to be ambi-dexterous (in some fantasy genres...we'll be using that stereotype for this example). Then we have light sleeping, and long agespan, for another (about) 7 points. Now we have spent 31 points making ourselves pointy eared...Assuming we're going for an elven warrior (sword and shield based) we have gained ALMOST NOTHING that will help up in battle (aside from 1 pt of DEX). A human fighter, in turn, will just buy 4 points of Overall CSL, and be MUCH more effective in fighting.....However, if we ignore some of the above traits, we'll be "out of character" for an elf of this world... At this same time, its unfair just to give "extra" character points to the elves, just because theyre not human...so here we have the main problem...Balance. First off, I want to address the above examples from others about playing an Ogre barbarian versus a human barbarian. Theres a distinct problem right there...Ogres ARE stronger, buffier, and more savage than humans. WHY would you let your players play an Ogre!!!??? EVER!!! Half orcs for sure...but Ogres?? They stand (in SOME settings) over 16 feet high! Of COURSE theyll outpower a human....They are a higher ECL in D&D, so unless you plan on making disadvantages for playing "high powered" characters then theres a simple solution: DONT LET YOU PLAYERS PLAY INSANELY POWERFUL RACES. Its almost as if I was asking "Hey, can I play and anciet dragon, demi god"? Sure, if the campaign was geared for it, but in a Heroic fantasy setting races are about showing diversity, NOT getting overpowered characrers. Orges are decidingly overpowered. What I do, and feel is very important, is creating very balanced character packets, for all races, human included. This alows the flavor to be show in each race, without over or underpowering either humans or non humans. For my racial packets, I: Make a blanced packet for each races, including humans Start off every class by giving them NCM, 20pts for the reason of balancing humans Do not allow distinctive features, simply because in MOST games I run, humans are as distinctive as elves or dwarves. Always make sure Non-human characters end up with a positive CP cost, so each racial packet costs some points to buy And, of course, balance everything with the humans to make sure it fits... Now, the main reason I put NCM in there is so that humans start at a -20CP value. I then buy up a certain set of basic abilities that humans have to choose from, so they are balanced with the others (after all, they have their own distinct qualities). In a specific racial packet, I always make sure that the abilities I am buying reflect the race, not just "Munchkin" out my character. A good example is buying "TunnelSense" for my dwarves, and a natural stonecraft ability. These "mundane" skills even out the points cost. My list of races have gone missing for the moment, otherwise I would post them here so you could see my balancing. Ill post them at a later date when I can... I hope this helps....This is my way of doing things, certaintly not the law (and on another side note, Im not sure how I feel with the D&D 3.5 elf superiority comment. Ill take the extra feat anyday, and, if metagamed right, I'll one up and elf anyday. Lowlight and a little bit of dex doesnt impress me much... then again, I guess Its just how you play...Im always feats heavy...then again, I dispise d20, so thats another story).

Re: Seeds of Change PBEM I agree...That would be educational... Then again, it might also be a bit offensive to some, in the fact that some of the characters that didnt "make the cut" might not be half bad...sometimes it all comes down to house rules (especially in HERO....heck, the entire game is a house rule =P) and GM preference... Still it would be interesting.....

Re: Seeds of Change PBEM Ditto. Id like to know too....Even if its not a "sure thing", Id be willing to write up a character (no hero planner here =P) and submit anyhow.

Re: Skaramine's Heroes and Villains Very nice character design. I like the background and the "peaceful gladiator" persona. Very nice job! Looking at his ultimate charge, how much damage does that equal out to, after move through and speed is calculated?

Re: An odd question Yes, I certaintly would. Even now, without superpowers, I live every day attempting to shape the world around me to fit my perception of correct, as do mostpeople, whether its consciously or, more often than not, subconsiously. To balance that, I constantly seek to educate myself and second guess my world viewpoints, making sure that I do indeed have the "correct" ideas in mind. With 800pts behind my belt, it would be no different.

Re: Multiforms and Multiple Forms Or you could just skip using Multi-Form and focus on another way to get the special effects desired. For a "Beast-Boy" like character, I'd completely drop MF and just buy a HUGE (almost all my CP) VPP (using some modified house rules for giving the VPP points, but still limiting its active point cap) and define it as "animal special effects" (only animals native to planet -1/4 in a space going campaign). I'd allow him to buy Characteristics and levels of growth, KA, etc, etc, as per needed. This works very well for me, since the limit of only earth animals provides enough structure to keep the character from making a form with Desolidified with a 3d6 NND, Usable while desolidified attack. This completely negated the "middle man". Now if you weren't using an easily definable special effect (for example, "many alien-mutation forms"), then you might want to use one of the previous ideas.

Re: The Ultimate Mystic -- Got It! I usually rely on other players to supply the extra books for me, but I'm looking at picking up a few more. I run mostly medium to high level fantasy games, but I do mix it up every now and then. I have taken a look at FH and, while its a good book, I think I took/absorbed everything I needed to really consider (including the ever controversial 1/5 or 1/3 magic rule =P). I am now thinking of grabbing either Ultim. MA (for the MA creation rules, which I dont have) or UM. What do you suggest so far? How useful of a resource is it? Is it mostly just idea extensions, or does it suggest new rules and etc etc. =D

Re: Bizarre Alien Mind -- power musings Looks good. Can't say I see any real room for improvement =D. If the mentalists have trouble activating their own abilities for a short period of time after "comming into contact", then Dispel would work well as linked with it too....

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? There are also many better Internet mediums than AOL....but funny how a large marketing history and "consumer friendly" interfaces (ie, idiot-proof guardrails) tend to command societies market. /end rant... lol

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO?

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? AHHH - The HOLIDAY SARCASM!!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!

Re: How to make an alchemy power. I either just put heavy time restrictions, uninterruptable concentration needed, and proper "conditions" on item creation, making it difficult to do it "on the fly".... OR *note, examples listed below are not made with Alchemist in mind...Mainly magical item creation. I use a variation of the ingredients idea. In the world, many mundane items are linked strongly with magic (sapphires, 4-leaf clovers, newt eyes, etc). Some, as already mentioned, link in very strongly with certain concepts or types of spells/potions. Usually most items of this semi-magical nature will aid in the creation of a large range of magical items, as its energy is absorbed into the foci, but something will grant more if it is used for its "favored" purpose, if it has one. In these examples I usually BAN the players from using personal (or group) CPs to make the items, or limit them to only spending 1/3 of the total cost in points, at maximum. I am very against characters in a heroic level fantasy game spending points on magical items, so I always look for other ways to limit the character. I AM trying to get the player to construct his items completely out of magical materials... The main advantage is that if I don't want an item created, I, as the GM, simply limit the availability of the required materials. For example: refined Mirthril containes roughly 6 CPS when used as the basis for a magical metal item, however it is vary rare, usually only found in the DarkHold mines, commonly besieged by the Drow forces, and horded by the PCs Dwarven allies when not, making it costly to obtain, either way. rubies can be used in almost any magical item that deals with summoning, conjuring, or many other magical effects. The player will just have to experiment. He finds the ruby gives him 1 cp on the average, yet for anything related to fire, heat, and demons, it seems to yeild 3cps. pheonix feathers have natural magic abilites. They give a 1cp values to any magical item, yet they are soft and break easy, making combat weapons, armor, and many other items make from them nearly useless. Wands, necklaces, and headdresses are the most common arrangements. Healing items made this way adds 5cps instead of 1. flowers can be used for many magics, yet most flowers can only work on a specific type of magic, or group Oak wood over 100 years old gives off 1CP for all spells related to nature, summoning, elements of wood, or spells related to stalwart defense. It adds +4 to anything specifically involving Treants, plant growth, or defense of the forests. Other more "common" items include silver powder, crushed bones of magical creatures(including wizards, oddly enough), mushrooms picked from a faerie cirlce, and blood (shown as a drain of body. Note, this is for a campaign with almost NO magical or rapid forms of healing, so it makes Body a precious commodity..I let this option be used rarely, and ALWAYS take advantage of it). All of these will add 1cp to ANY magical creation. I like pineapples on my pizza (note, previous comment is unrelated to all relevent topics at the moment). This way usually requires a large list and works best with players unfamiliar with your system, but Its well worth the time, IMHO.

Re: multiform - is this for real?

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? While I am an old time gamer, I only joined the HERO crowd with the introduction of FRED, so I don't really know the old Instant Change, or regeneration. What I do note is an odd incosistancy in Regen (actually, in healing all together) that does not appear elsewhere in the system. It just appears...."clunky". I dont really see any needed change to the other mentioned abilites, but perhaps because I have not seen an alternative. My observation is as such: I play with what I'm given, and toolkit out what I don't like (ala the Intel. based PER...I dont like it at all..It doesnt sit well with me in concept, and I think INT. does enough in my Fantasy Hero games for its 1pt cost , so its 11- for me, with PER being a 3rp per roll adder that four races get as bonus abilites [elves, half-es, kobolds, homunculoids]) There are a few points that I think really need some reworking, because of its inability to flow smoothly, but all in all, there hasnt been anything that I couldn't easily manipulate to serve my ends... *evil GM laughter.

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? I dont like the INT based PER either, so I use the 11-. PER has nothing to do with INT. I consider myself to be a decently smart fellow. On the other hand, I couldn't spot a 300 pound boa-constrictor if it was eating my girlfriend while we were both in bed together....Really, I'm THAT blind when it comes to noticing my surroundings. I dont see the connection and I don't see the harm in allowing ONE roll to be free based. First it bothered me, but I don't see an attribute that I would align it with. My other thought was to incorporate a PER stat at a 1cp for 2pts, and just make PER go off of that. If you wanted to add disads, or go above NCM, you would still use the PSL at 3pts a level, but you'd have a tangible base to go off of. *Shrug...Im just using the 11- at the moment. Its working well for me. To each his own. Take care Hero players...AND a Merry Christmas Eve at that! EDIT: Random pointless side note - I give elves +2 Per rolls in their Racial Packet, and Shifters [a mutated Eberron convert] get +1 PER to their roll.

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? Odd, I rather like PowerDefense. It makes sense that some characters get powerdef., such as Paladins, and Clerical spells, to protect them from undead drains and such. In fact, I have a Dwarf Racial packet that gives them natural PowerDefense only versus physical transformation spells, to show the stubborn nature of the dwarven biology. EDIT: It would be nice if they changed to name to Alteration Defense, or something similar, so I could shorten it to AD, as opposed to writing out PD all the time, and getting it confused with Physical Defense =P

Re: What should be DROPPED from HERO? I agree with you here, but I am an avid supporter that a BO is considered a double weapon (as presented in D&D), and should be treated as if using a two weapon fighting skill. If you do not have the talent, or a skill to offset the offhand penalty, then you don't have to use the extra attack (and take all the minuses), but its certaintly an option, in my games anyhow. A BO is different from other weapons in that it has two easily accesible striking ends, when compared to another two-handed weapon (say a large two-handed maul, or sword). The Bo is gripped differently in most cases, and has two eaqually balanced striking areas. I do think a person holding two sticks attacks more than a person holding one sword. The attacks while fighting never come at the same time, rather a few seconds after each other, but still within the 3 seconds of a phase or so. To state background, I have trained in two weapon fighting with rapier combat, where the used weapons were very light and nimble. Mainly lunge attacks are used and the stances provided give excellent accuracy with both hands (considering that while attacking, blocking, and moving, the basic stance points the tips of both my blades into the neck or center mass of the opponent). I do commonly attack twice in "one phase" because I have two weapons. With only one, by body is left at an angle (with arm extended) that I cannot strike again until I recover from that position. I imagine its the same with slashing attacks. When the body moves with the weapon, you need to bring that weapon "back up" into another striking position to strike again (in most cases, I know that sometimes there are options to swing from the new position, but I personally feel that is a form of weapon MAs here, using MPs). If I am holding two rapiers, once I lunge with one, I still have a tucked in arm with the other weapon, and can extend it INSTANTLY, at a different point on the body (I like to attack center mass and low most of the time. If I cant kill them, I almost always leg them, which is almost sure victory anyhow...*remembers a few bad scrimishes*..ermm..most of the time..heh). IMHO, two weapon fighting in Fred is even bordering on underpowered, not in game mechanics, but in realization. The DCV penalty is horiddly obscene, considering on opponent with two weapons has an INCREDIBLE amount of defense, compared to a one hander. When weilding two weapons (namely a defensive secondarly) I can fend off a one handed sword weilder almost all day, if I can match his footwork, that is. (I like a modified FH version of TWF, btw).

Re: new dup/MF/sum/follower system proposal (LONG) Totally noted. Although you've said that you were sorry several times, I (and I think a majority of the hero community...just a guess) don't feel at all like you have done anything offensive in stating your opinion on the rules. GM specification is what HERO is all about. In the least, you've posted a possible solution to something you see as a problem. If for any reason another GM comes onto this board that see a similar problem with MF and DUP, then he will at least have an OPTION now available to him...or at least something to think about...all because you posted your ideas. The more ideas we throw around, the more options we have...and I for one think thats the GREATEST strength of the HERO system.... Take care!