atlascott

Re: FH weapon damage Well, one guy took advantage of the random roll and got burned--he ended up paying for 15 STR and got a 12. But he bought his STR up to crazy levels anyway. I though the early and stiff cost mutiples would dissuade him from it, but evidently not. Since STR is 1 pt standard, he started with a 12. He had a racial STR Package Deal bonus, and a Profession bonus, so he got up to 18, and then bought the 7 extra points, for 14 points. I dont know WHAT im going to have to send his way to make 6 ot 7 Killing dice necesary...

So I had the guys over to make FH characters. I have some house rules. First, for the Primaries, 11-15 values are at the stated cost; 16-20 are at 2x the cost; 21-25 are 3x the cost, and 26-30 are 4x the stated cost, etc. Second, package deals which launch scores beyond 15 DO NOT suffer from the double, triple, etc, costs. Purchased atttributes outside a PD do. (Incentive to use PD's). Third, players can pay the amount of character points necessary to buy ONE attribute to 15, and they then get the right to roll a d10, and take the result of the roll, THEN add the PD's, and THEN buy whatever else they want. So, you can either roll a high number are really save some points, but you are also risking points, cuz you might roll a 2, having paid 5 pts for a 15 STR but ending up with a 12 (but you had a chance for a 20 STR for 5 pts, when it otherwise would have cost you much more). So 2 of my players (in a 125 pt game) have 25 STR, and they were bummed about the 'no more than double base damage of a weapon" rule especially in light of some of their perks and skills which add a d6 of damage under certain circumstances. A 2d6K weapon can not be made to do more than 4d6K damage, period, no matter how you try to do it. The STR min is low enough on the weapons that these guys were using that they were maxing out the damage before they used any of the nifty extra special moves. Now they want to but 3 1/2 d6K swords and axes. I can see their point. Why CANT you just buy a bigger axe, with a 20 STR minimum, which does more damage? Even if you have to have it custom made, doesnt it make sense? What's the point of having tremendous strength if you have maxed out your longsword? They are closing in on doing more damage classes with their bare handws than with a killing attack weapon. My concern is game balance. 6 or 7 dice of killing damage is a heck of alot of damage. I know, I can just say 'no' because it unbalances the game. But lets take a step back, here. They did not reall munchkin their way into 25 str characters. Don't ogres have 30 str? Do Ogres use teeny tiny (for them) swords and axes? Do giants? SHouldnt the players get to use their giant weapons if they want? Now, I already have some things in mind. First, if they buy weapons that max their minimum STR, the a weak STR drain makes them useless. ALso, such large weapons probably have at leasy a -3 OCV to hit in smaller spaces, like dungeons or anywhere indoors. There are definitely consequences for this approach. So what do you think? Bar them? Allow it? Is there something Im missing? Input greatly appreciated.

I have decided to go with a VPP for my FH game as a magic system. I'd like to outline it here and get some feedback, since this is the first time I am tryint to run a full-fledged FH campaign. I wanted a system with a limite repetiore of spells memorized, requing at least 6 hours sleep and 1 hour of spellbook study to case spells. I want spellcasters to flexible, but have to prepare a list of 'readied' spells, so as to avoid a fireball-machine. I am using a VPP with a bunch of limitations on the control cost (only spells in spellbook, only memorized spells, requires skill roll from appropriate school of magic, each spell is one recoverable charge, must rest and study to memorize new spells). The wiz then needs to buy a power skill for each of the magic schools from which he wishes to cast (relying on the categories in FHGI). Negative tot he spell roll based on 10 active pts=-1, character uses personal END (not to power, but to control the magical energies). The VPP the guy is working with is a 30 pt VPP, and characters are built on 125 (50 plus 75 disadvantages). I am worried that the guy will not have enough spell variety with 30 points. That's not alot of spells per day, since even the low-powered ones are 7 or 8 pts. Even assuming a best-case performance at every scenario and 5 pts per, it is expensive to expand a VPP, what with the pool and control cost, and it is not going to leave this cat very much XP to tweak the character elsewhere. I was considering instituting a "level' system, where character level= xp/5, and then allow the wiz more active points automatically--but that isnt right--it goes against the whole point of a vpp. Can I just give him an additional lim on the spells and reduce their cost further, based on the above-stated magic system lims? Suggestions? Advice? Problems on the horizon I am not seeing?

Re: FH Magic System Will do, Steve. Thanks!

So I had the guys over to make FH characters. I have some house rules. First, for the Primaries, 11-15 values are at the stated cost; 16-20 are at 2x the cost; 21-25 are 3x the cost, and 26-30 are 4x the stated cost, etc. Second, package deals which launch scores beyond 15 DO NOT suffer from the double, triple, etc, costs. Purchased atttributes outside a PD do. (Incentive to use PD's). Third, players can pay the amount of character points necessary to buy ONE attribute to 15, and they then get the right to roll a d10, and take the result of the roll, THEN add the PD's, and THEN buy whatever else they want. So, you can either roll a high number are really save some points, but you are also risking points, cuz you might roll a 2, having paid 5 pts for a 15 STR but ending up with a 12 (but you had a chance for a 20 STR for 5 pts, when it otherwise would have cost you much more). So 2 of my players (in a 125 pt game) have 25 STR, and they were bummed about the 'no more than double base damage of a weapon" rule especially in light of some of their perks and skills which add a d6 of damage under certain circumstances. A 2d6K weapon can not be made to do more than 4d6K damage, period, no matter how you try to do it. The STR min is low enough on the weapons that these guys were using that they were maxing out the damage before they used any of the nifty extra special moves. Now they want to but 3 1/2 d6K swords and axes. I can see their point. Why CANT you just buy a bigger axe, with a 20 STR minimum, which does more damage? Even if you have to have it custom made, doesnt it make sense? What's the point of having tremendous strength if you have maxed out your longsword? They are closing in on doing more damage classes with their bare handws than with a killing attack weapon. My concern is game balance. 6 or 7 dice of killing damage is a heck of alot of damage. I know, I can just say 'no' because it unbalances the game. But lets take a step back, here. They did not reall munchkin their way into 25 str characters. Don't ogres have 30 str? Do Ogres use teeny tiny (for them) swords and axes? Do giants? SHouldnt the players get to use their giant weapons if they want? Now, I already have some things in mind. First, if they buy weapons that max their minimum STR, the a weak STR drain makes them useless. ALso, such large weapons probably have at leasy a -3 OCV to hit in smaller spaces, like dungeons or anywhere indoors. There are definitely consequences for this approach. So what do you think? Bar them? Allow it? Is there something Im missing? Input greatly appreciated.

I have decided to go with a VPP for my FH game as a magic system. I'd like to outline it here and get some feedback, since this is the first time I am tryint to run a full-fledged FH campaign. I wanted a system with a limite repetiore of spells memorized, requing at least 6 hours sleep and 1 hour of spellbook study to case spells. I want spellcasters to flexible, but have to prepare a list of 'readied' spells, so as to avoid a fireball-machine. I am using a VPP with a bunch of limitations on the control cost (only spells in spellbook, only memorized spells, requires skill roll from appropriate school of magic, each spell is one recoverable charge, must rest and study to memorize new spells). The wiz then needs to buy a power skill for each of the magic schools from which he wishes to cast (relying on the categories in FHGI). Negative tot he spell roll based on 10 active pts=-1, character uses personal END (not to power, but to control the magical energies). The VPP the guy is working with is a 30 pt VPP, and characters are built on 125 (50 plus 75 disadvantages). I am worried that the guy will not have enough spell variety with 30 points. That's not alot of spells per day, since even the low-powered ones are 7 or 8 pts. Even assuming a best-case performance at every scenario and 5 pts per, it is expensive to expand a VPP, what with the pool and control cost, and it is not going to leave this cat very much XP to tweak the character elsewhere. I was considering instituting a "level' system, where character level= xp/5, and then allow the wiz more active points automatically--but that isnt right--it goes against the whole point of a vpp. Can I just give him an additional lim on the spells and reduce their cost further, based on the above-stated magic system lims? Suggestions? Advice? Problems on the horizon I am not seeing?

And this is the first time I am planning on running a Fantasy Hero campaign. I am undecided on how to have magic work. I am not crazy about the Summon-heavy Valdorian age approach. Any advice/preferences? What about general help for a first-time FH GM--who is used to running the genre using 1st or 3rd ED D&D? Thanks!

Re: How do I introduce HERO to a potential new player? Lead with interesting genre/source material for him. Run an interesting game--simple, goals-clear scenario. DO NOT have him make his own character. Have him come up with the conception, and you build it. Explain what you are doing, and some of the optimizations as you put them in. (This will only get him MORE curious about the rules) Run him thru a basic combat, and then run him in a scenario or two. Make sure he understands the caveat that, once he knows more about the rules, he will be allowed to customize his character. Maker sure you have a Sidekick for him to borrow after the first game session. I DO NOT think running him as an agent in a supers campaign, or as himself in a tv-show campaign, is a good idea, for the same reason that PC's HATE being captured in a game--this is THEIR story. Dont marginalize him by making him a supporting cast member. People read Superman because of Superman, not because Jimmy Olsen makes an appearance. How long will it take before he gets completely bored using that approach? A PhD is a natural for this kind of game. Before you know it, he'll have the chargen down pat. But not if he is not engaged in a fun game. Good luck!

Re: The Power of Presence I'd require mind control with a lim, not a Presence attack, for that sort of ability.

Great GM'ing is about providing daunting, but not impossible, challenges. But the really great GM's provide a resonance in their games--moments that really matter, moments that really get the PC's excited, engaged, pulling for the result that are chasing. I think making players detail their characters, and providing feedback as to how they are running their characters early on in a campaign, based on what background they have provided, is a good first step. I also routinely use the "Aliens" formula. Get the players into trouble. Then get them into more trouble. When they think they have a handle on the situation, all hell breaks loose with even more trouble. Then let them think, fight, claw scratch and roleplay their way out of it. If the trouble is not contrived-seeming or totally illogical, and if the subject matter is compelling, you have a group of players really busting thei hump, their fate resting on every toss of the dice, and every decision. THAT is the stuff of great gaming--PASSION, EXCITEMENT, ENGAGEMENT IN THE STORY. SO, how do YOU make these things happen in your game, and for playe4rs, what are the things that made YOU love that last, great, phenomenal scenario or campaign?

I disagree with the superheroic and heroic dichotomy I disagree with the superheroic and heroic dichotomy that is supported by some. The Life Support should apply and cost out exactly the same in either genre. The only difference is--no GM worth his salt is going to allow a "Normal" to buy that sort of thing in a regular heroic campaign. Unless maigc or technology is involved, PC's in a gritty, real world game just aren't going to be able to withstand that sort of thing. In a superheroic game, sure, why not? So, the rule works identically, but as a matter of genre, it should not be allowed for purchase by a normal person, just like a normal person in a realistic campaign could not just buy flight. Further to the example of the evil Thermostat--if his power is defined as "Change Environment: Heat atmosphere to +/- 1000 degrees"--then he will never hurt our hero. If his ability to do the exact same thing is actually an aread effect killing attack witht he specials effect "Im am heating the air all around him to 1000 degrees"--well, thats an attack, and it does damage, period.

Re: Mass Combat? None of which I am aware. If you are talking about a really HERO combat, then no, I am not aware of any such workable system. If you want, you could come up with a purely mathematical analysis based on point cost, but what fun is that? My best suggestion? Use Budget BAttlefields minis rules--they are fast, fun, simple, are points-based, so you can sort of convert HERO troops into BB troops quick dirty and nasty. I use BB for mass combat regardless of the RPG game system, and it works pretty well.

Re: M&M pees in HERO's cheerios... I prefer HERO, too. I just thought the cheerios things was funny...

Ok, I mugged that forum topic from the 'eating HERO's breakfast forum, and I found it much too hysterical not to post as a real thread...

Re: Has HERO achieved maximum desirable complexity? No, there could easily be more complexity added, which might sell more books. For example, alot of people do not like the vehicle building rules. Why not make vehicle building rules more complex, and unlike anything else in the system? Players and GM buy games because of the rules, the more, the better, the more complex, the better. Eliminate artwork altogether, because everyone knows it is just fluff where more rules could be. The more complex vehicle rules would make gamers happier because they would be noew, different, and voluminous. More rules. And, more optional rules. For example, for the initiative issue--do standard d6 roll, or go with DEX order, or devise about 30 different ways to do it. That's what gamers want, not a simple, elegant, sensical way to do it--rather, a complex, malleable, inconsistent way. CHOICES, not hard and fast rules. A toolkit. Also, there should be a separate Characteristics book, Skills book, Powers book, Combat book, etc. That would address the book size criticisms. Gamers on a low budget could buy what they could afford, when they could afford it. Instead on one big book, sell about 5 $20 rule books as the core, with another dozen adding options and more rules. Appearance or source material doesnt sell a game, the RULES do.

Re: Package Deals in 5ER I STILL use package deal to handle everyman campaign abilities characters and NPC's have, or as intersting options, lik e"elf" or "dwarf"--it is less and issue of price break as it is of flavor. THe advantage od class-based games is it is easy to be certain that characters will be playing genre-supported character types. Package deals serve that purpose but still alow flexibility in the HERO system.

Re: I know this probably sounds psycotic, and it probably will be. The key to something like this is to virtually eliminate character flexibility. Defensviely, you need some points in physical, energy and mental. Offensively, pick one attack, spend a ton on CSL's so you cant miss (buy effects desolid), and go overboard on it. You can even just buy insane amount so entangle, affects desolid.

Re: Help in evaluating a character Here are some thoughts. First, "gestures" requires that a different gesture be used for each power, and only for that specific power. Each linked power requires a separate gesture, so he can forget linking separate powers that require gestures or incantations, propbably, too. Constant powers (like armor) either require constant gesturing, or a separate gesture to activate so his build is a nonstarter from go (its either impossible or costs more than reflected in his sheet--see FRED p. 296). He cannot possibly gesture for more than one power simultaneuously--so it will take him how long to turn on all of those linked powers? (p.296-297). A gesture requires at least one free hand to perform. (p.296) A constant greater power (armor) reduces the price break of link to 1/4 (FRED p.300) If a character is hit with any power(damage or adversely effected in ANY WAY) that requires an attack roll (regular or ECV), gestured and incanted powers immediately turn off (FRED p.296 and 297). Talk about a terrible defense. BTW, even if the above weren't true, it also means that, since he is incanting and gesturing, he cannot really attack or do anything else. (If a gesture and/or incantation is only required to activate, then it is worth 1/4 less, so again, either his pricing is bad, or his build has serious uninteended consequences--see FRED296, 297) Interesting dilemma--use my defenses, OR attack. I'm not sure your player would like that choice, nor anticipated it when he built his character. In retrospect, I'd ask him if he is REAAALY sure he wants to play the character as written. If he does, I'd let him. He can only activate one of his linked powers at a time bc of incant and gestures, and since he did not reduce the limitation by 1/4, he couldnt do anything T have one power activated, linked or not. The example on p. 296 sort of paints the picture. Or, he can revert to basically normal and use his whopping 10 strength to see what kind of damage he can do. The funny thing is that both incantation and gestures are a -1/4 to begin with. It appears if you only need to incant or gesture to activate a power, they each revert to a -0 limitation.

Re: Eating your lunch... All Your Rpg Are Belong To Us.

Re: Eating your lunch... HERO is a complete, logical system. d20 is different with every genre, and introduces new/different rules in every book. HERO system allows for a more realistic character progression. d20 levelling destroys campaign continuity by allowing characters, in a few levels become exponentially more powerful. HERO mimics reality better because you can build a more organic, real character. d20 showhorns everyone into or more classes. These are just a couple examples. HERO mimics reality better, and mimics fictional source material based on a fictional reality better as a result. Just because some people irrationally prefer a less consistent, more random system DOES NOT mean that have rational, objective reasons for it. They might have an OPINION that the game is "more funnerer" even if it is not objectively better. How's that grab you?

Re: Eating your lunch...

Re: Eating your lunch... It is not a bigoted attitude to have played d20 and have concluded that it is broken, broken, broken. Because, objectively, it is. For alot of reasons. I'm sure the cat was saying "filth" as a sort of tongue in cheek way of meaning "Me no likey."

Re: Eating your lunch... Now HERE is something I can agree with. HERO has better rules, for sure. But GR sure knows how to put a book together and make you wwant to play in the genre they are selling...

Re: Eating your lunch...

M&M is eating Hero Games' superhero gaming lunch. Drinking your Kool-Aide, as it were. Just LOOK at it, and tell me this does get you psyched to play some superhero RPG! http://64.17.155.164/2e_files/MM2eCh1.pdf I love the HERO system, but the production and game quality of Green Ronin is eating our lunch.