atlascott

Re: Champions Universe I'm not sure if any further response makes any sense. We are talking right past one another. I think I've amply demonstrated that the book doesnt do what it describes itself as doing. No one really addresses it. Mockery ensues. That's cool, whatever entertains you. I'm not saying the book has no value at all. It just doesn't do what it says it does. I'm GLAD that you all seem to find no flaw in any HERO product. Im sure DoJ is gratified that their book is perfection. That's great. I also find that fact rather interesting. Not to be too repetitive, but I never wrote that I expected a villans book, and I STILL dont see why other books which have hundreds of write-ups have to do with anything. I appreciate that there are other additonal materials that have what I am looking for. I appreciate that this book evidently seems to meet some peoples' needs. I appreciate that not every book can cover every subject matter in utter detail. But, I DO expect more from a book when it promises: "Champions Universe provides a complete world for superhero gaming" But CU doesn't. That's all. I am glad I never bought it, and I never will. My 3rd and 4th Edition source materials are easily modified. I was just HOPING that 5th Ed. stuff would have something to add. Other than page after page of general exposition.

Re: Champions Universe Yeah, I know. Too bad. A good book by what standard? It's fine for people ot laud the books as generic treatises of particular genres. A setting book is not a generic, system-unspecified treatise. Awesome straw man technique. But when did I ever say I expected a book full of villans? Oh, that's right. I didnt. I think you are dead wrong when it comes to what the CU book is. The CHAMPSIONS BOOK IS DESCRIBED AS "Champions describes how to create and play comic book superhero characters and campaigns." The CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE book is described as "Champions Universe provides a complete world for superhero gaming, with information on the impact of superhumans on technology, the media, politics, and more!" "A complete world for superhero gaming"--just without any stats--more useless exposition that any fan of comicbooks knows. After an ENTIRE BOOK (Champions) dedicated to "how to run a superheros game" with nothing in it that actually helps us run anything in particular, do we REALLY need more of this vacuous page-filling in a book which purports to be "a complete world for superhero gaming"? In a book that is "a complete world for superhero gaming" Id expect at least a few main heroes or super team, their bases and jets statted out, you know, stuff that actually creates "a complete world for superhero gaming." NOT another collected bunch of essays on how to do ALL THE WORK MYSELF. I DID NOT BUY THE BOOK precise because I DID FLIP THROUGH IT. It would be a wonderful tool for anyone who wanted to run a superheroic campaing, but who had never seen a hero cartoon or read a comic book in his/her life. So, I'm glad I didnt buy it, because an alien from an alternate dimension where there are no comic books or other superheroic source material may materialize in this dimension and want to take rpg'ing. Once he gets done reading and understanding the 600 page rules behemoth, he can set right in to reading about "a complete world for superhero gaming" but with none of the details that would make it "a complete world for superhero gaming." Again, awesome straw man. When did I say that the criteria for it being effective as a "a complete world for superhero gaming" was that it needed 95 stated characters? And for the love of d6'es everywhere, WHAT DOES THE FACT THAT THERE ARE 95 HEROeS AND 253 VILLANS IN OTHER BOOKS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? That's like buying a car, finding out that it has no tires, and telling me that there are plenty of cars in China which have tires. Huh? Telling me to buy other books, or telling me that other books have lots of statted characters is NOT A SOLUTION to the fact that Champions Universe fails miserably at being what it advertises itself as, which is "a complete world for superhero gaming." Ok, so now your argument is that The Champions are not an important part of the The Champions Universe? Why have they graced almost every book cover then? And the argument that CU is just a teeny peice of the puzzle doesn't make sense in the context of it being described as "a complete world for superhero gaming." CU isn't a foundation. It is a bunch of junk they cut out of Champions, assembled in a book, and threw a misleading label on. With 'quality meat' like this, good luck attracting new, loyal gamers (and please note, I but just about all the HERO stuff, because I support Steve, DoJ, and the system). Its just that, at some point, I want some actual useful content.

Re: Champions Universe How to Fry an Egg in the HERO system: Egg Frying has a long and storied tradition....[page 9] ....Frying an egg is just one of many ways to cook an egg...[page 26] ...a frying pan is sometimes useful in frying an egg...[page38] ...you need at least one egg to fry an egg...[page49] ...some source of heat...[page 56]...salt and pepper...[page 86] ...chicken or the egg?...[page 137]...raw versus cooked egg...[page 194] ...bacon instead of egg [page 222]...thanks for reading "How to Fry an Egg." You might also be interested in "How to REALLY Fry an Egg," available this fall from HERO games...

Re: Champions Universe Telling me to buy other books is not a solution. Telling me that character write ups represent x% of total pages is not a solution. It is ridiculous to sell a 'Champions Universe' book WITHOUT THE CHAMPION'S STATS. Without their 10 main villian's stats. Without their base statted out. Without their vehicles statted out. With lots of references to other books, that might, or might not, have the information you need to play in the Champions Universe. Call it "Champions Universe Book Of History" Consumers will still probably expect to get some character write-ups. But it would at least be a bit more accurate. Or maybe "Champions Universe But Missing Key Character and Vital Vehicle and Villan Information Book" would be the best route. Its like complaning that a new car has no tires, and being told to buy another car with tires. Tires are a reasonable expectation when you buy a new car. So are character write ups for ther heros and villans in a game world. Rather than motivate me to buy another car, or 2 or 3 instead of one book, I bought nothing.

Re: Best bit The fact that it uses d6's, which are generally available and inconspicuous.

I was all ready to buy something at my FLGS. I had a belly full of Western SKillet, a slight hangover coupled with the endings of a mild cold, and an entire afternoon laid out to read, and drowse. I wanted the combat handbook or pulp hero, but not in stock. I looked over their meagre HERO stuff and picked up Champions Universe. For those who do not know, its a book you buy if you want to run a supers campaign in the 'official' superhero world of HERO games. THERE ARE ALMOST NO STATS FOR THE HEROES AND ENTITIES MENTIONED THEREIN. I couldn't believe it. I even checked the index. Thank god they have an agent statted out in the rules. But none of the villans or heroes. Ok, I'll do away with the hyperbole. Are there 5 super bring total in the book? AS a consumer, I expect and want all the friggin stats for all the friggin heros and villans, or at least the major ones. Good gravy, what good is the book without that stuff? Great rules, but dang it, the 'extras' books are terrible.

Re: Why is Strength so underpriced? "Why is this?" Because DOJ generally, and Steve Long in particular, are evil, evil, evil. They PURPOSELY do things like this to unbalance the system, enrage us, and destroy any fun we could possibly otherwise have with this 'system' (if you can call so fatally flawed assembly or rules a 'system'--what, with the cheap STR and the lots of six-siders and whatnot).

Re: Limitations You Would Like to See More Often What about a limitation (-1) Power only works when player has given any thought or effort as to what his character has been doing between scenarios...

Re: 5ER review HERO rules. You can do anything with it. I am SO TIRED of d20 everything. ANd prestige classes/careers. And utterly ridiculous and game-ruining character advancement. (e.g., "Hey Thor, remember last Spring when we first came here and barely scraped through that battle with those 3 orcs? Just yesterday, I killed 3 dragons..."). I though I was going to dislike the 5ER. But then I got it and realized that its the same book, only more info, errata fixed, and MORE explanations. I'm glad I bought it.

I have a friend who I am trying to bring into the fold. He just HAS to have firearms rules which reflect minor differences in caliber and firearm weapon. Any advice?

Re: Lack of Fully Developed Worlds Hero is going nowhere. I enjoy it, but it is NOT expanding. There is nothing shiny and marketable about it to the general gaming public. Sad, but true. I'll continue to buy everything that comes out, but more out of nostalgia than anything else.

Re: Some questions which are coming up. "There is another variable limitation called "charges are hard to recover" or something, which is how you might do bullets. You don't get bullets at the begining of every day, you get them when you go to the store and buy them (if you were playing super heroic)" Bullets in the scenario described above are regular old recoverable charges, in my book. Buy a few boxes of ammo. Use up what you carry, but you have to go back to the base, or any gun store, to get some more readlily-available ammo. The exception would be if you were playing in a post-apoc. game world where you CANNOT just go to a store, but instead had to mix your own gunpowder, and do your own reloads. THis requires know how, equipment, and materials that might not be very available at all in a post apocalypse world. Thus 'hard to recover'

Re: Mental Powers

Re: How about this sci-fi battle..

Re: How about this sci-fi battle..

Re: Stat Increase = Skill Increase?

Re: Disadvantages of being Undead What about Distinctive Features: Smelly Walking Bag of Meat?

Re: Does Unluck Really Screw You? Here are some examples of how I have used Unluck in a Champs campaign: "Wow, we are all exhausted from barely being able to escape Mechanon...oh crap, are those Minutemen....?" "Excellent work, Mr. Brick--pulling the roof down on the enemy superteam is GREAT work! Oh wait...has anybody seen The Leprechaun? {sounds of muffled Leprechaunesque moaning under the building}" "Nice shot, Energy Lad! You Sunburst Blast really knocked that villan back into that wall...which is now falling towards us..." I will occasionally use unluck to make a character lose an action due to slipping, or other change environmental problem. If the roll is really bad, it can make the hero look like a schmuck or unheroic to the crowd--or even the whole team.

Re: Lets cut the crap... Zornwill: "On a note related to this discussion, one big reason HERO suits me fine is I put in the same amount of work in any game system - I make a bunch of tweaks, I create a setting, all that. I simply have yet to meet a system I'd run it as it stands from "off the shelf", HERO included, or at least that I would do so for long with (though Savage Worlds looks pretty good, though circumscribed to do only what it does, with less flexibility but less granularity and excellent fluidity in play). " Im with you, I never run anything stright out of the book. But come on! HERO is alot more work that other games, cause you gotta build EVERYTHING. Tweaking a character class or weapons damage in an already-built game world is quite a bit different than having to essentially assemble everything, which is what you have to do ib the HERO system, even if you have a genre book. It is less a tweak than an entire re-write.

I do not recall reading about any 'suggested' CSL or SL limits in FRED. Are there? Munchkinism is a risk--buying the cheapest CSL to get a monsterload of to hit bonuses means the signature move never misses, ever. More importantly, what, if any, limits do you guys place in your campaigns wrt skill levels? What do you base the limits on, if any (e.g., no SL bonus that exceeds relevant characteristic/3?)

Re: Another Suggestion for Dropping Figured Characteristics My problem with getting rid of figured characteristics is: figured characteristics were envisioned as derivatives of the base characteristics, and to a certain extent, lose all meaning if the two are divorced. Aren't agile, flexible characters in comics generally quicker than the behemoths? Are hearty characters quicker to recover from ill effects from fatigue and damage? If you take these away, you are destroying the conception of what DEX really is, or what CON really is. Why is it that Ben Grimm can take a hit that would decapitate a normal, but keep swinging himself? Is it because his player bought up his defenses, or is it because strong guys generally take punches better than 98-pound weaklings? I also would object to STR no longer being related to HtH damage. Don't strong guys punch harder? I think the whole thing is a terrible idea. I only support eliminating Figured Characterisitics if you are playing a limited genre that doesnt require a particular stat--in which case, you cut it to make the game simpler and faster. I'm not sure what the infatuation is with eliminating the figured characteristics.

Re: Lets cut the crap... Here's more detail. 5thER: B (much larger book, more examples) 5thE: B (more approachable because smaller, but errata and fewer examples) 4th ED: A- (I mainly used it for supers, which it did great, and it also contained source materials in a book shorter than 5th ED. Definitely less universal than 5th, but the layout was nicer and the rules more straightforward. 5th seems needlessly complicated in its 5th ED iteration). D&D 1st ED: B+ (Very limited system, did simply did what it was supposed to. I freely admit my bias to the grand-dadddy of all RPG's). D&D 2nd ED C+ (Felt like they just sort of bolted on skills. Felt like a money grab, but their production values obviously took a large step forward) D&D 3.0: C (Change, it seems, solely for the sake of change. The whole system is turned upside-down, and character progression results in quantum leaps in power levels--from weaklings to world-beaters in 7 scenarios) D&D 3.5: C (Blatant money-grab with seemingly-random rules changes necessitating re-purchasing all core rulesbooks. But the system itself works almost identically to 3.0--which is why, after a couple of us bought the books, we unanimously decided to sell our 3.5 stuff and just play 3.0--which I hate to run, BTW). All FLesh Must Be Eaten: A- (One book, ALL the rules you need to run the game. All black and white, but the narrative and artwork is so consistent in tone that it really sells the book. It got a - because the Unisystem is too simplistic for my tastes). Armageddon: A- (This book is evidently not selling as well as All Flesh, but that is a shame. It also uses the Unisystem, but is at least as good for other reasons as All Flesh) Call of Cthulhu: A (It almost doesnt matter what Edition (as long as it aint d20), though the later Editions gave you more and more for your dollar. GREAT, simple rules that did what you needed them to, GREAT source materials, and the best scenarios ever published for any game system, period) Cyberpunk: B+ (Great game--1 book, most everything you need to run, a simple, effective rule system.) Shadowrun: C+ (Odd combination of Orcs and cyerpunk. The production value was sky high, with beautiful art, good narrative interspered in the rules, to really 'grab' you. Unfortunately, it was too fanciful to be gritty sci-fi, and too sci-fi to be fanatasy. The rules system mechanics were atrocious, and the scenarios were simplistic and boring). Warhammer RPG: B+ (Again, one books, all you need. Really different but workable character advancement scheme. Fun, and beautiful art drew you in, but was, again, all black and white--which did not detract in the least). Delta Green: B (A fairly well done CoC mod). (More later if I have time...)

Re: Lets cut the crap...

Re: HERO System Vehicles You are one cranky-for-no-reason SOB. If your ideas are so obvious and 'brain-dead simple' then why dont YOU come up with a vehicle system? If its so easy, go ahead and knock it out in a half hour, and then you can stop pestering the owners of the HERO system to change in favor of your game-busting ideas of what vehicle construction should be, eh? Of course, the answer really is that it ISN'T as simple as your snide post suggests.

Re: HERO System Vehicles The criticisms regarding the vehicle rules are, in some points well taken, and in others, not. Complaining that vehicles feel like character, do not have weight, or drive trains and engines, is anathema to the flexibility of the system. In other words, how can you impose these constructs on a flexible game system? Maybe your car laser is a bulky OAF, but maybe I want mine the size of a pinhead and mounted on my rearview mirror. Maybe Mr. Super has a antigrav vehicle with a tiny powerplant (or NO powerplant), no drivetrain. ALot of the suggestions would defeat the advantages of building vehicles with he same tools we use to build characters. So, we already have people complaining about the complexity of the game---you want them to bolt-on an entirely new and different set of rules for cars, jets, mopeds, etc? I think this would be a bad, bad idea. The criticisms about the relative power levels of vehicles to vehicles, and supers to vehicles, is well taken. My original supers camapign featured 250 pt characters. The default now, for mature, fuller-featured supers, as I understnad it, is 350. Alot of people run 500 or higher point characters, who would be grease spots if hit by a tank or fighter jet. That's ok for a Professor X clone, but not for a character based on the Hulk or Juggernaut (ie, a pretty powerful brick). However, this addresses write-ups, NOT the mechanics of the system itself. I would agree that I would DEFINITELY buy a book of builds--weapons from all periods, vehicles from all periods, etc. Make sure they are balanced and make sense for the average, say, 350 or 400 point super, and I'd lauy down my $50 in an instant.