atlascott

Re: So why do you play Hero? "Unless you are expecting a game where neophytes can become world-shakers in a matter of game-months, I don't prefer level/class based systems." Boy, that really hits home! 3.0 and 3.5 d20 REALLY create quantum leaps in character power that make game continuity tough. WIth HERO, you can pace it as you wish.

Re: Is TK too expensive? TK allows manipulation of things over a distance, and it is indirect. You aren't opening yourself up to damage shields, and it can be used if you are entangled, unlike strength or EB. I agree with folks that it should always be based on EGO, not DEX. But cost/effectiveness-wise, I think it ought to be more expensive, given its inherent advantages and flexibility.

Ok, so I know the various books have max ranges for weapons, right? And I know you can use the standard or more granular range modifers. And I know weapns can be bought with CSL's, only to offset range mods. I have never run into much longer range fighting (6X2.5 foot game table, I guess!) but how well do these mechanics work with a Modern or even Medieval game when scoped rifle or longbow ranges really make a difference?

Re: The Hero curse I am down with the sickness, and when I've statted out the hero and villan, and they do something obviously not consistent with their previously-established abilities/powers limits, I get MAD! "Hey, Capt. Wonderful could barely hold up that car 20 minutes ago, and now he is going toe to toe with Mr. Goliath? Mr. Goliath JUGGLES cars!" So not only do I stat em out, but I get mad when my stats or their continuity is wrong! These mental exercises are awesome, really, because they make you much better at statting on the fly, and also better to help someone throw together a character faster.

Re: How about this sci-fi battle.. Predators over Reavers. Jedi over Predators. Now, discounting AVP, which was a terrible, terrible movie, even worse than Alien Ressurection, and, in my opinion, an abomination, and a symptoms of what has happened to sci-fi movies (used to be thoughtful, now are just pasted together, ill-concieved, story and character-less globs of special effects and explosions). Aliens versus Jedi---but on Coruscant, with plenty of places to hide. Sure, cut the Alien in two, but your precious Jedi hide is burnt to a crisp... Now THAT's a fight...

Re: newbie - thinkin of getting these rules If I were you, I'd get the Hero Sidekick rules (maybe 2 copies-=one for you and one for wife), Turakrian Age, and UNTIL sourcebook. The rules in Sidekick are complete enough for you to run any game, any genre. The Turakian Age will give you samples of how to put together Fantasy element. The UNTIL sourcebook will give you ideas for body armor, agent stats, weapon stats, etc. Then, I'd get the big rules book and other such books that interest you. Good luck, and welcome to the best rules for RPG's ever!

Re: Limitation Minimization Fox: "If I can run a freakn' 24 year campaign with multiple groups and have characters range in point cost from 400 to 1000 on the same team and adventures without balance issues- I'm sorry, the points don't matter." I would see this a a pretty big balance difference-- 400 points adventuring with a 1000 point character. Even 100 points can be a massive difference, even in a high powered campaign. Can you give us some details about the genre/powers/types of characters/AP attack and defense campaign guidelines that have helped you make this work? As a mere floating abstraction, and based on my experience, what you wrote is absolutely not true, but I am open to hear about how you did it, if you are willing to share that info.

Re: Deliberatly Abusive Character concepts Or what about the purely support character. I get (at least) one any time I let supers run more than 1 PC per player. High Defense and END, but all he does is massive AID to the rest of the group, allowing them to circumvent the attack and defense limits......

Re: Deliberatly Abusive Character concepts Lots of shrinking, with high DEX, danger sense, 360 degree sight and maxxed CSL's, and main is NND attack. You COULD NOT hit this guy, and let's face it, how many heroes/villians have a bunch of AOE attacks? Not a whole lot, but he was the reason I started using them at all. And, of course, he could hurt almost anyone with his NND neutrino emitter (NND). Or what about Mr. Big Knife----highest HKA you can buy with as many CLS's as allowed, and a RKA, same deal, highest DEX you can get, highest speed he could afford. Hit em hard, hit em fast. He can't stand up to a brick beating on him, but he doesn't need to--he hits any 4 color hero and they're dead. HomeRun, the knockback brick. Damage resistance, standard brick, but buy as much increased knockback as possible so that every time you hit anyone, they go FLYING...so you never have to fight more than 1 guy at a time, esp if they dont have much in the way of movement powers...or even better, do the same with EB--add as much knockback as your GM will allow--and then watch to his horror as the villan needs to buy a bus ticket back to super city to continue the fight, after one blast...

Re: Eliminating Killing Attacks In non-supers games, it makes sense, because a club is not a bullet or knife. In supers games, I discourage guys from taking killing attacks bc in 4 color games, they are fringe genre material. But I don't restrict them--but I DO make it clear that if they run around killing people, there are repercussions. Last supers foray--one of my guys just buys a bunch of sifferent KA's, because he is The Predator. 5d6 hka, Hunted: Other supers: US govt., etc. Perfect example of being able to do something, but just because you can, doesnt mena you should....

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System Icel: Your approach is about the most reasonable I think you can arrive at, given that playing stright pre-gens is out. I'd mention that as GM, I'd be very flexible for players who wanted to do s resigned/tweak after the first couple of sessions. Good Luck!

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System For better advice, can you let us know what genre you will be playing? Modern? Super hero? Star Hero? Old West? Making characters is MUCH EASIER the less maigcal/special effect-y/super powered characters are.

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System The simple, unassailable fact is that there is NO easy way to introduce new players to the HERO system, and that is the biggest problem we curently have. That said, HIDE the big rulebook and ONLY use Sidekick. Discuss character conception FIRST. If nonsuperhero, then make sure you have put together racial/profession packager deals, which is the easiest way to do it. But there is no easy way to make HERO system characters with novices to the system.

Re: The DEATH of the HERO System!!!

Okay, I have a confession. I just wanted to see how many people I could get to take a peek at what they probably thought was another "piss on HERO and DoJ" thread. I have done my share of bitching and moaning, to be certain... To the contrary, I just wanted a large audience to witness my humble thanks to Steve and all of the DoJ, for keeping this brilliant and fun thing alive! I am starting a Star Hero campaign, and planning it has been a blast! I've run HERO in 4 different genres now, and have yet to find one it doesnt work brilliantly in! So kudoes, gents, for keeping the best game system EVAR alive, well , and evolving. Also, a hearty thanks to the fan commuity on these boards. No one could ask for a greater bunch of high-iq'ed, motivated, benevolent guys and gals, willing to help with their (sometimes very detailed and time consuming) thoughts, and offering their help to complete strangers! Cheers!

Re: The Force--Need Help! WRT light versus dark side, my campaign is taking a cue from the Revenge of the Sith novel, where Yoda thinks to himself that the failure of the Jedi was keeping their use of the Force stagnant--whereas the Sith evidently continued to look for new applications and uses of the force. I agree with the fellow who says that the powers themselves are not really 'light' or 'dark' but rather, their application. The PC's are initially taught their Force powers via a fallen Jedi, one of the Lost. He or she will advocate a more fluid approach to the development of a Jedi--not so much the standard 'learn all of these skills that all jedi know since time immorial' approach. Certain Jedi DO naturally gravitate to certain force powers--and this will be simulated by the variety of force powers that the PC's will develop and I will help them build. They will all start by choosing from a list of perhaps 10 powers taught to them by their Master, then, their Master sends them to SDkywalker's Jedi academy. When they arrive, they discover he is missing and meet other Padawans. I have a bunch of scenarios just bursting, but this is sort of the idea of wherer they start. They will bring a flexible approach to develoment of new force powers, which is much needed in the new jedi order, since the Emperor destroyed all holocrons of recorded Jedi knowledge. SOme will be recovered, some will be developed. And THEN they meet the Emperor and HIS new apprentices...

Re: Don't be a hater! Agent X "Personally, it looks to me like you're trying to collect ammunition to fire at me or an excuse to ban me." That is certainly what it look like to me, too. Here's a news flash re: the pagarism issue. If you love your ideas so much, why are you posting them on a public board? Unless something is lifted directly, HOW in hell can you even tell that something is 'plagarized,' esp in context of a particular game system? What, you though the idea of a chart describing characteristic ranges was something no one could ever have done, or hadnt done before you? Finally, you know, it is entirely possible to read alot of board posts, and then, a year later, come up with a plot seed that is remarkably similar to something someone else wrote. It doesnt mean anything sinister. Its just the way the mind works.

I have several ideas about how to implement characters' Force powers in a new campaign I am starting. It is set in the New Republic era, about 3 years after Death Star #2 goes boom. I have considered the VPP route. I have considered making each character just buy what powers he chooses to, separately, with separate lims. (to reflect that starting Jedi Padawans aren't all that great). I have considered Multipower. The idea is, that I will stat out about 20 known Jedi Powers, and because these guys were Padawan before coming to the new Jedi Academy (studying under one of the Lost on a remote world hidden from the former Empire), they can develop and research their own Jedi powers--and then add them to their characters as they get enough XP. This way, they can really add to the campaign world and be more unique Jedi. Any advice or suggestions?

Re: Don't be a hater!

Re: Don't be a hater! C--: "They seem to follow the "big numbers are good, 'cause guns am powerful" school of thought. " LOL! Funny!

Re: Don't be a hater! Ok, but TE DOESNT do the brake job for you, or at least not as well as other companies do brake jobs for their systems--it is still awfully sketchy. And, no offense meant, but exactly what does "You just didn't drill down far enough" supposed to mean? From context, it seems to suggest that I have some sort of deficiency or handicap such that I cannot ken the superioe value of these products? If thats the meaning, I disagree, but obviously, its your mind, believe whatever you'd like. I read HERO rules. I read (and slept through the painfully obvious and of little utility) StarHERO. I read AW and TE, and STILL was not given a game world that is anywherer NEAR state of the art for a setting book in the industry.

Re: Don't be a hater! Well, since I am probably one of those three people, allow me to clarify what I have already made clear in the past. I LOVE the HERO system. I think its great, and it is my game system of choice. I am about to run a Star Wars HERO conversion, that's how much I hate it. Now, as to the genrebooks, let's have what is good for the goose be good for the gander. Most of the supplements for the HERO system are not up to the quality and usefulness they exhibited in 3rd and 4th Edition. Sure, the type is nicer, there are more books and more pages. But I always thought supplements were to help you run the game, and genre books were suppsoed to save the GM some work by giving you a genned world. I'm not going into details--I have spent many, many, many posts doing so. SO I guess put me in the whiny b#tch category, and the guys who agree with this thread's author can go in the fanboi category, since evidently any criticism makes you a hater. I'm not saying that others cannot see value in the genre books. I'm just saying that, with 3 months of free time, most guys on this list could have self-published a more useful, more cohesive, more informative genre/gameworld book than any of the current offerings. NOT a dissertation on HOW to play in a Space campaign--rather, a REAL, INTERESTING game world with a bunch of equipment statted out, enemies with actual character sheets, plot seeds, etc. Its like going in for a brake job. The mechanic gives you a tool box. You tell him, no, I want a BRAKE JOB. He opens the tool box and hands you a wrench. In this analogy, the HERO rule book is the toolbox, and the genre books are the wrench--they dont get the job done, and the Gm still has to do ALL of the heavy lifting.

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks--Untenable Rule

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks--Untenable Rule I always understood 'Linked" as being a means by which to accomplish 2 or more attack powers simultaneously--without linked, it doesnt happen. This rules interpretation worked fine. And my big beef with this rule is that, one, it should be limited by definition to a particular genre or power effect. I just do not see it as a standard rule. Second, it cant help by change the way players design characters. I mean, great character conception is wonderful, but when one PC is in effect twice (or more) as powerful as everyone else in the super team, resentment and dissatisfaction with the design inevitably follow, unless you really have wonderful (no, really, saintly is a better word) gamers. Here's just a simple example. I want a character whose EB is the main attack. Active points are limited to 50 pts for any one attack. So, I buy two, one with each hand, and then also buy 2 more with AP for each hand. Now, while Captain Wonderful, my teammate, is throwing his indestructible shield at the enemy, and doing his 10d6 (against PD) EB, I get to do 10d6, plus 10d6, plus 6d6 AP, plus 6d6 AP. This DOESNT HAPPEN in the comic books. Now, it makes PERFECT SENSE that EB boy can focus his EB to do AP. And it also makes PERFECT SENSE that if he shoots EB out of his hands, he should be able to do it out both hands simultaneously. So EB's player isnt being a munchkin, or abusive, or a rules lawyer, but his character design makes sense and is 4x as effective in combat as Captain Wonderful. This problem is compunded exponentially if you factor in the rule that gives you an additional focus for 5 more CP's More EB character's powers into 4 guns on his hips. Now he has 4x the effectivness for a fraction of the points. And as to the 'its always been this way'--while this is theoretically possible, I wonder why it never was clear in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Edition, and in NONE of my games? End of the day, it is in the rules. Maybe its inclusion makes HERO more flexible, even tho I see it as almost 100% liability. I dont like it, so I wouldnt use it unless someone gave me a good reason for character conception reasons why it should be allowed for a particular character.

The Multiple Power Attack Rule (p.234 in the standard 5th Ed rulebook (pre-revision) unequivocally states that "[a] character can use as many Attack Powers in a Phase as he wishes." The only caveats are: 1. You have to be able to afford the END cost. 2. You cannot mix ECV and CV attack roll powers in this all-out attack. 3. You cannot mix ranged and hand to hand attacks. 4. The attacks must be against a single target. 5. You cannot apply limites combat skill levels to the entire attack if the CSL' are bought only to benefit one power. 6. You take the worst of the OCV and DCV modifiers of all the attacks. 7. The use of incompatible specials effects is discouraged (using a fire power and ice power). The ADVANTAGE of doing this is pretty obvious. You essentially can get a massive number of attacks over with in one phase (though defenses apply separately). You get one attack roll--if you hit once, EVERYTHING you used all hits. You can land what used to be an entire combat worth of attacks in your first phase. Now note, other than taking whatever combat maneuver penalty, THERE IS NO OFF HAND OR OTHER PENALTY, EVEN THOUGH YOU WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY MAKING SEVERAL DISCRETE ATTACKS, one right after the other, no rest, no aiming, just cutting lose with every applicable offensive power. This means that the average martial artist, with, let's say, 5 martial maneuvers, can use them all on a single enemy, all in one Phase. Yes, that's correct. A martial Sweep, offensive strike, a defensive strike, a sacrifice throw, and, what the heck, throw in as many more as you wish, all done in a SINGLE PHASE. It also means that Lord Energy Blast can hit you with his standard EB, his AP EB, his NND EB, his Piercing EB and as many other EB's he might have dreamed up, all at once, in the first phase of combat. While some folks said that this is a OPTIONAL rule, it is not presented as such in the book--it is presented as a standrd rule, with some statements like "A GM can Disallow this or that..." The rule does not make sense as a general part of the HERO system. It violates genre conventions of almost every sci-fi and fantasy genre I can think of, and it just BEGS for meta-game thinking in character creation. Its a terrible, terrible rule. I have heard some say that the rule helps people who want to create speedster characters, or John Woo style, 2-gun-shooting characters. The problem is--this is not a power or talent or perq or skill. It is a rule of combat--that means, with only the above restrictions, EVERYONE gets to use it. It makes no sense.