Chris Goodwin

Oh my god!  This again. I worked on that damned game. The crew was Steve Peterson, Ken Zarifies, Nicky Robinson, her (soon to be ex) husband, Ray Greer, Bryce Nakagawa, and myself. It was  for 386, and 486 machine gun it’s SVGA capability, and it was my first computer animation gig, out of college, and Lordy was that a labor intensive game. Bryce and I replaced another artist, who’s well drawn porn comic took off. We scrapped his character art, and Bryce took over interface and some backgrounds and I did character sprites and effects. It was a slog as the scale of the characters changed (smaller) and the animation catalogue increased. The test and convention builds worked well, but he bottleneck was the scripting system; and Steve could not get a handle on it, especially with the 3in. Disk based limits. Hardware was tiny back then. Only the character generator from that game made it out of that project. That became Heromakr.exe which shipped with the BigBlueBook. 

I've not read the whole thread but, for what it is worth...
 
1. I do not like 'Darkness, normal' to be written up as -4 to PER rolls.  Makes no sense.  Doesn't matter how smart you are, you can not see in the dark.
2. I don't think there is a really satisfactory way of writing up the generation of light or, for that matter, the generation of non-damaging energy of any kind.
3. The whole 'senses' thing might make more, well, sense, if it was done differently.  I do like the active sense thing though.  Clever.
4. You specifically can not use Change Environment to create light, although you can use it to create heat, which is a sort of light, or will do in a pinch (and with vision in the right bit of the spectrum).  Bah.
 
I've got a torch that can illuminate stuff a hundred metres or more away.  It is less use than being able to see in the dark, because it has a narrower filed of vision than I do and, you know, it is a torch.  The further away I shine it, the dimmer it illuminates but the wider the area it illuminates.
 
Hmm.  Just thinking.
 
Right, a beam of light , used as an attack, would cost 5 points for 1d6 damage.  It would have a range of 50m.  It is visible. I do not think it unreasonable that the sfx could be defined to briefly illuminate everything along its path. and probably for a couple of metres either side.  To be useful as a torch it would have to be constant, which is +1/2.  A 128m thin cone is +1.  No range is -1/2.  A 1 hour continuing fuel charge is +0.  Obvious Accessible Focus is -1.  'SFX only' is, perhaps -1 again, maybe -2.  Either way that works out at 3 points.  Leaving out OAF it is 5 or 3 points depending on the SFX only limitation.
 
Sod it.  Energy Creation: For 5 points you can create  non damaging energy as up to an 8m explosion.  The energy has all the normal properties of the created energy* but is not intense enough to (normally**) cause damage.  This can include 'negative energy' like cold.  It is ranged (10m x active points).  Costs END. Constant.
 
That'll do.
 
 
 
*Light illuminates and can be seen even outside the area of immediate illumination.  Heat will convect or radiate and, in an enclosed space, eventually heat up the entire area unless cooling is applied.  Magnetism affects magnets and may magnetise iron.  Electricity can power household appliances.  Etc., etc.
 
**It may well trigger appropriate susceptibilities, however.
 

You know what I like about Chris's 1d6 Blast suggestion? 
 
It reminds me that we give away light for free. 
 
"what three senses (two, for 6e players) can detect your EB?" 
 
Well, it's a bolt of lighting, so I was thinking a brilliant arc of electricity, an electric 'sizzle' noise, and the smell of burnt ozone. "
 
Got it; it appeals to four senses. 
 
No; that's three. 
 
Does it hurt when you get hit with it? 
 
Of course it does!  It's lightning! 
 
Touch is a sense. 
 
Fine.  So I'll drop-
 
No; you don't have to drop one.  You can have all you want.  But if you drop touch, you're wasting a lot of points. 
 
You're doing this on purpose, aren't you? 
 
"_No, he's just smug about pointless crap.  You'll get used to it-_" 
 
Knock it off, Mark!   Anyway, Loren, tell me about your other powers... 
I
(f I wasn't jonesing so hard for a game....) 
 
Later:  
 
Yes; you recognize the voice talking into the radio.  That shadowy figure in the darkness is definitely him. 
 
I take my time; he doesn't know I'm here.  I really line up the shot, making sure I stay focused squarely on him. 
 
Roll to hit. 
 
SWEET!  Got a seven! 
 
The warehouse flashes for the briefest instant into crisp, clear focus, instantly yet briefly filled with a flicker of brilliant light as your lightning strike sizzles through the space between you,- for the briefest instant, you can see he is not alone! Then you mighty zigguraut of untamed electrons strikes Doctor Nair Duwell perfectly in the chest!  The scent of burnt ozone reaches you just about the same time his screams of rage ring in your ears-
 
Wait:  what did you say? 
 
The scent of burnt ozo-
 
No; before that
 
That shadowy figure is definitely him? 
 
You said " The warehouse flashes for the briefest instant into crisp, clear focus, instantly yet briefly filled with a flicker of brilliant light." 
 
Yes...?
 
Take it back. 
 
Excuse me? 
 
Take it back. 
 
.. Uuuuuhhhh..... _whyyyy_? 
 
Because it can't.  I don't have Images. 
 
What the hell are-
 
You said that I have to buy images to make light! 
 
Yeah, sure, but that's to have light that actually, you know, lasts more than two eyeblinks! 
 
What about Terri?  You said that "the glow of her forcefield was sufficient enough to let her sneak through here without banging into stuff.  Why? 
 
It glows!  When she built her character, she specifically said" soft yellow glow from the forcefield!"  Glow means light! 
 
She doesn't have images, either! 
 
Dude, it just makes sense that if it glows she would be able to see what she is stepping on or into, right? 
 
I want a flashlight 
 
You sure?  That's like thirty-two pointa.  Have you banked 32 points? 
 
Fine.  Can I kind of cycle my lightning, like arc it between my fingers or something?  
 
Sure!  Presence Attack? 
 
No,  I want to see if I can generate enough light this way to read the blotter on this desk; I'm hoping it might name the buyer. 
 
Oh sure, that could work!  Make a Power Skill roll. 
 
Hi-yeah!  Nat 3, Baby! 
 
You are able to modulate your electrical powers so cleanly and perfectly, what with that 3, that it's almost like to had a hand-held arc light.  You have manged to chase almost all the shadows back to the edges of the room or into the shadows under the desk or across the filing cabinets... 
 
Yeah.  So how much was that flashlight? 
 
Thirty-two points.  Want to save up for it? 
 
Nah...   I think I'm good.... 
 
You know what I like about Phil's astute observation that normal sight should cost the same as blindness? 
 
The reminder that for twenty-five points, I shoukd be able to see from where I stand to the horizon with no penalties other than range. 
 
Ever wonder what that area was?  You science guys probably already know that it's about 3.1 miles to the horizon at sea level.  That means in sweeping from the horizon dead ahead to the horizon over your left shoulder, you have taken in, in a glance, 9.61 square miles. 
 
Figuring your peripheral vision to stop just a tiny bit before your shoulders, let's say you can stand staring forward and potentially perceive 4/3 of that (2/3 of the left and right fields.  A quick Google suggests your periphery is a bit more than what I am suggesting, but I'm trying to keep this simple. I am also not going to suggest getting in an airplane thousands of feet above the Earth and noticing that you can _still_ see to the horizon). 
 
4/3 of 9.61 is 12.8133333 etc. Square miles. 
 
This gives us the handy round figure of thirty-three million, one-hundred eighty-six thousand, three-hundred and eighty point nine-eight-two-eight. 
 
You know, I'm feeling like we should round in the character's favor here. Let's just call it an even 33,186,390 square meters. 
 
So we divide that by the twenty-five points we "sort-of-paid for not being blind? - - and we see that a single point spent on light should allow us to illuminate one-and-one-third _million_ square meters. 
 
It's no _wonder_ we give that crap away for free!   We'll have to start burning off the surplus if we expect it to ever be worth anything at all! 
 
Which takes me back to Chris's other suggestion:  if you really want to charge for it, charge somewhere between 1 and 5 pts.  Personally, if you spent a _whole point_ for the ability to light up a 10m X 10m room, you got _screwed_.... 
 
 

Unless there were, I don't know, some kind of power that could generate UV light... 
 
Any idea what we might use for that?

There are shades of T-form.
 
Perhaps it's not without merit to consider shades of CE as well...
 
minor CE-- things like adding light; changing colors
 
CE: adding special effects-- "radioactive background?!  My powers won't work here!"
 
Major: enforcing penatlies (ala Darkness), adding boons, etc.
 
 
Just a thought, mind you.
 

Doing a bit of comparison... 
Change Environment:  -1 to PER costs 2 points for one Sense or 3 points for one Sense Group Enhanced Perception:  +1 to a character's PER costs 1 point for +1 to one Sense, 2 points for +1 to one Sense Group, or 3 points for +1 to all Sense Groups Nightvision:  5 points, for +4 against natural darkness penalties.   Images:  +/-1 to viewers' PER costs 3 points regardless of what Senses/Sense Groups, which are bought separately (10/Targeting Group, 5/Nontargeting Group, 5/Targeting Sense, 3/Nontargeting Sense) CE is single target; Images is a base 1 cubic meter.  It's assumed that both of these will be bought with Area of Effect if needed.  I'm ignoring the Darkness Power as I don't think it's relevant.  
 
For Images, my assumption is that if it's used for light, it acts as a spotlight effect in whatever its area is (thanks to Phil for that, btw).  If the AoE you've bought it to is bigger than the area you're in, it will illuminate the entire area (i.e. room lights).  
 
Which is good, and all, except that as @dsatow and others have pointed out, it's expensive for what it does.  I'm not certain that it's worth the points for something that we're pretty sure is free (points-wise) as a "standard" item (battery powered flashlight, burning firebrand torch, lantern or lamp of whatever tech level, etc.).  
 
I'm inclined to just go with my original instinct: a custom Power.  Maybe 1-5 points for the ability to create light on demand as a Power (spell, etc.), which can be built through a Focus if desired, but a light source of some kind (torch, flashlight, etc.) is usually free, points-wise.  And if you already have light-based Powers, using them like a flashlight is as free as a character with flame powers using them to light a candle.  (Analogously, a character with sonic powers can act as a "sonar flashlight" for Sonar, infrared likewise with IR light, and so on.)

Certainly; the unofficial, uncodified, never-addressed-by-Abigal_van_Buren-or-anyone-pretending-to-be-her etiquette that has arisen from message boards over the years agrees with you, and I understand it completely.
 
My confusion was that you _did_ quote me.   Five times.  Only me.  Prior to every question you asked.  
 
I trust you understand my confusion.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Seems reasonable.  Which means I'll be looking over my shoulders for the next few days....  Reasonable action on the internet is always... unsettling...    
 
Seriously, though:
 
I am in the conversation because it's fun.  I have house rules that handle this, and have had for years, and when all this is said and done, I admit up front that I will most likely continue using them.  For anyone who wonders why-- this is not to be argumentative; it's to be explanatory-- it's because I disagree with a considerable number of the suppositions upon which we are basing the model.  For example, I disagree with -5 being "no sight PER roll possible;"  I place that limit much higher (lower?) than 5, simply because that gives a baseline normal human a a 6 or less to see whatever it is he wants or needs to see.  That's just a touch under five percent.  Yes; them's crap odds, but they are still there.  However, I am not going to argue using -5, as I'm more interested in what this experiment may reveal, through either success or failure.  What's the old saw about not failing, but finding multiple things that don't work?  Either way, you learn something.    .  I'm good with that.
 
 
 
 

First off I am going to apologize for the length of this post and the multiple responses.  I should break it up, but I think they all flow together.
 
My apologies.  This came from an argument from Phil (Saturday at 12:02 AM) and Gnome(Friday at 08:14 PM) on page 3.  Both were arguing for the adjustment power based penalties to be increased and I incorrectly assumed you to agree with the larger penalty.  I was wrong.
 
Which is a GM decision and not a rule of the game.  IE: a House rule.  This was my argument which got down voted.
 
Actually, not really, since the argument for using adjustment powers is that the absence of light(the actor) which generates the penalties to be drained, then unless there is light, the absence of light generates the penalties again.
 
I'll explain why I am reiterating something people have already stated in a minute.
 
1) Unless I directly quote you, it's mostly not directed to you or any single person.  It's more of an annoying general discussion.
2) Every so often a good gem of an idea gets floated out there.  Most of the people I game with are pretty smart.  Smart enough to try to break/find fault with a hastily conceived house rule to their benefit.  If I argue the idea here, there are a dozen other smart GMs who can come up with an answer beyond just the old "I say so".  If not, I try to think up a way to counter the flaw if the flaw is not too major.  Usually, though the flaw is too obnoxious to overcome simply and cleanly.
3) I will sometimes repeat answered items because of several reasons.
   a) The same arguments that spawned the problem get mentioned again or are ignored and not solved.
   b) Just to remind people by summarizing the situation.
   c) Some of the posts are so god damn long it feels like read a thesis.  I'll forget some of the items being argued.  I'm no spring chicken and 35 years of HERO gaming is bound to take a toll.
   d) Lately, the world seems to be if you don't constantly bring up the problems, people think you agree with them and their solutions, even if the solution isn't something you agree with.  So, I try to be cordial and reiterate my position.

Doing a bit of comparison... 
Change Environment:  -1 to PER costs 2 points for one Sense or 3 points for one Sense Group Enhanced Perception:  +1 to a character's PER costs 1 point for +1 to one Sense, 2 points for +1 to one Sense Group, or 3 points for +1 to all Sense Groups Nightvision:  5 points, for +4 against natural darkness penalties.   Images:  +/-1 to viewers' PER costs 3 points regardless of what Senses/Sense Groups, which are bought separately (10/Targeting Group, 5/Nontargeting Group, 5/Targeting Sense, 3/Nontargeting Sense) CE is single target; Images is a base 1 cubic meter.  It's assumed that both of these will be bought with Area of Effect if needed.  I'm ignoring the Darkness Power as I don't think it's relevant.  
 
For Images, my assumption is that if it's used for light, it acts as a spotlight effect in whatever its area is (thanks to Phil for that, btw).  If the AoE you've bought it to is bigger than the area you're in, it will illuminate the entire area (i.e. room lights).  
 
Which is good, and all, except that as @dsatow and others have pointed out, it's expensive for what it does.  I'm not certain that it's worth the points for something that we're pretty sure is free (points-wise) as a "standard" item (battery powered flashlight, burning firebrand torch, lantern or lamp of whatever tech level, etc.).  
 
I'm inclined to just go with my original instinct: a custom Power.  Maybe 1-5 points for the ability to create light on demand as a Power (spell, etc.), which can be built through a Focus if desired, but a light source of some kind (torch, flashlight, etc.) is usually free, points-wise.  And if you already have light-based Powers, using them like a flashlight is as free as a character with flame powers using them to light a candle.  (Analogously, a character with sonic powers can act as a "sonar flashlight" for Sonar, infrared likewise with IR light, and so on.)

Thanks for that! 
 
As long as I've been playing, and in as many groups and with dozens of people in and out over the decades, I don't think that has ever occurred to any of us. 
 
Neat! 
 

You know.  After all the discussion I am just about convinced of the use of images.  The images provide a pool of light.  I think that the image could be bought restrainable - if you get in the way of the beam of light you prevent it reaching the area intended.  What I also think is necessary is that all the concern folk have about fading edges and ruined night vision and snipers should be folded into the SFX of the power.  The SFX are separate from the game effect. 
 
So.  Images get you the defined effect in a defined area.  Everything else is a GM judgement call based on the impact of the SFX.  You reckon that the pool of light gives a reduced effect close to that pool?  Fine, small improvement to PER rolls.  A sniper several hundred feet away and out of the defined area of effect?  well the SFX of pool of light make anyone within the effect fully visible to people a distance away, just like a real lantern would.
 
I am actually totally sold on images for the very first time.  Would just like everyone to know that an argument on the internet has actually changed an opinion!!!
 

Doc

Doing a bit of comparison... 
Change Environment:  -1 to PER costs 2 points for one Sense or 3 points for one Sense Group Enhanced Perception:  +1 to a character's PER costs 1 point for +1 to one Sense, 2 points for +1 to one Sense Group, or 3 points for +1 to all Sense Groups Nightvision:  5 points, for +4 against natural darkness penalties.   Images:  +/-1 to viewers' PER costs 3 points regardless of what Senses/Sense Groups, which are bought separately (10/Targeting Group, 5/Nontargeting Group, 5/Targeting Sense, 3/Nontargeting Sense) CE is single target; Images is a base 1 cubic meter.  It's assumed that both of these will be bought with Area of Effect if needed.  I'm ignoring the Darkness Power as I don't think it's relevant.  
 
For Images, my assumption is that if it's used for light, it acts as a spotlight effect in whatever its area is (thanks to Phil for that, btw).  If the AoE you've bought it to is bigger than the area you're in, it will illuminate the entire area (i.e. room lights).  
 
Which is good, and all, except that as @dsatow and others have pointed out, it's expensive for what it does.  I'm not certain that it's worth the points for something that we're pretty sure is free (points-wise) as a "standard" item (battery powered flashlight, burning firebrand torch, lantern or lamp of whatever tech level, etc.).  
 
I'm inclined to just go with my original instinct: a custom Power.  Maybe 1-5 points for the ability to create light on demand as a Power (spell, etc.), which can be built through a Focus if desired, but a light source of some kind (torch, flashlight, etc.) is usually free, points-wise.  And if you already have light-based Powers, using them like a flashlight is as free as a character with flame powers using them to light a candle.  (Analogously, a character with sonic powers can act as a "sonar flashlight" for Sonar, infrared likewise with IR light, and so on.)

I agree with Duke and dsatow here. The quotes are for emphasis.
 
Anytime you are creating a simulation (or model if you prefer), you must make some simplifying assumptions. If you could recreate reality without making some simplifying assumptions, you wouldn't be creating a simulation/model--you'd be creating...well...reality. 
 
The trick is to find out what you can simplify (or take out) and still create an accurate enough simulation.
 
It reminds me of the old physics joke where a farmer goes to his physicist friend and asks them if they can find a solution so that his cows give more milk. The physicist goes away for a couple of days and comes back saying that they have a solution, but it only works for spherical cows in a vacuum.
 
While the gist of the joke is that cows aren't spherical or live in a vacuum, the reality (pardon the pun) is that, if the shape of the cow and its respiration isn't important to how much milk it gives, then the model could be valid. (I realize a cow that can't breathe, like one in a vacuum, isn't likely to give milk, but if the breathing doesn't contribute to how much milk it produces (only keeping it alive), breathing can be removed from the model and being in a vacuum doesn't matter (in this case).)
 
So, it seems to me that the crux of the problem is what simplifying assumptions you can or need to make regarding darkness and light and whether or not the model it produces is good enough for what you're trying to model. It's not likely we will ever find the perfect solution--just one that's good enough for an individual GM or their table.
 
Lee

Their inclusion may be a bit Hit or Myth.

It's not truly "Mythic" without Aahz and Skeeve is it?

I disagree that this is how we must represent lack of natural light.  Lack of natural light existed as a condition long before Change Environment existed to give us the means to build a Power to replicate it, or before Dispel or Suppress existed to give us a means to dispel Powers.  
 
I'm perfectly fine with a Change Environment creating low-light conditions via a Sight PER penalty, and having those low-light conditions be mitigated via whatever means we're using to represent light.  I don't think that means that Dispel or Suppress Darkness is necessarily it.  It would be approximately as effective as my previous, "1d6 Blast (light), AoE, Constant, Does No BODY, Does No Stun, etc."  
 
We don't need a Power construct to replicate everything.  
 
 
As does light:  Images.  That we're having this discussion, trying to figure out what else to use besides Images, doesn't change the fact that Images is a nice clear mechanism, and in fact is specified in the rules.  
 
 
The capital-D Darkness here indicates the Darkness Power.  And I can think of a number of SFX for the Darkness Power that wouldn't be Dispelled by light.  Smoke cloud, for instance.  Cloud of crystalline shards.  Field of bright light.  Darkness vs. Hearing, Radio, Taste/Smell.  
 
And, again, going back to the first post in the thread, we don't seem to be talking about dispelling the Darkness Power.  

Back at a computer now and can respond a little more effectively...  
 
 
I'm generally in agreement with Phil here.  
 
I thought it might be useful to imagine or examine some lighting scenarios: 
A lone actor on a dark stage, illuminated by spotlights from above A single candle in a room at night A football field during a night game, illuminated by stadium lights In the first, the lights are placed such that they illuminate the subject, to at least +4 worth of cancellation of penalties.  
 
In the second, we might have +2 worth, in the immediate vicinity of the candle.  
 
In the third, we might have +3 to +4 worth of illumination to cancel out the penalties, with AoE for the entire field.  
 
In all of these cases, we have a varying amount of light, with either no ceiling/room surfaces to reflect the light, or placement and/or intensity such that illumination is limited to the subject.  
 
Compare all of the above to the typical room in the typical apartment or house.  You flip a switch, the room is lit; you can more or less see everything in the room, and the walls, ceiling, floor, and other objects in the room are all lit.  Anyone in the room has no difficulty seeing, reading, identifying others, and so on.  
 
Whatever method is used to provide light, I suggest that it generally "acts like light".  Tautological, maybe, but we've got Powers that are building blocks, and we're trying to build something that "acts like light".  To that end, I suggest the following: 
Single target, assuming human sized, no AoE -- illuminates the target only.  More or less the first case, above.  Area of Effect, but not big enough to fill the area:  illuminates everything inside the area.  Anyone outside the area can see in, anyone inside the area can't see out.  (Assume whatever the illumination bonus is acts as an additional penalty to see anything outside of the area; thus, +4 worth of illumination in a small area at night means anyone inside has -8 to see outside of it.) Area of Effect, equal to or larger than the area (assuming a room):  illuminates the entire room and everything inside of it.   Common sense, dramatic sense, GM permission, etc., might allow the bending or stretching of some of this.  For instance, an illumination power built as +4 worth, in a 2m radius, would illuminate everything in that radius at +4; if that is instead aimed "out into the night" it may reduce the effective illumination by an amount equal to standard Range Modifier, while increasing the area illuminated.  So it would be +4 at 0-8 meters (2m radius), +2 at 9-16 meters (4m radius), +0 at 17-32 meters (8m radius), -2 at 33-64 meters (16m radius -- the limit), -4 at 65-128 meters, etc.  Basically, anything out past 64 meters is not lit at all.  
 
If a character has, for instance, Light Powers, meaning some connected suite of powers that makes them light-based, I wouldn't require them to use a separate power to light something up.  I'm not sure I'd even require a Power Skill roll to power stunt one up.  
 
For a character with a dedicated "create light" ability, as the rules currently stand I might just have them use Images, only for light.  For something like the D&D light spell, which allows you to illuminate an object, I'd either use the Images with Differing Modifiers, or just go with a simple Major Transform: object to object that emits light.  

Darkness (capital D) can be similar in effect but is not the same as darkness (lower case).  O e can be added to an environment; the other cannot: its a natural condition of the environment when light is not being added. 
 
However, it might serve to study the effect if the model itself. 

Game Storm always happens at a terrible time for me (end of my Winter Quarter, when grading has both a huge load and a time limit) so I haven't gone since I started teaching full time (more than 15 years now).  A couple of folks from my group go pretty much every year.  The Seattle <--> Portland Amtrak has been pretty convenient, if I understand their comments right.  Once I retire I'll probably take a more active participation in cons, including Game Storm... two or three years out yet.

The general Limited Power covers a lot.  I see no reason you couldn't look at the Time Limit Limitation from 6th and import it into 4th via Limited Power.

The general Limited Power covers a lot.  I see no reason you couldn't look at the Time Limit Limitation from 6th and import it into 4th via Limited Power.

The general Limited Power covers a lot.  I see no reason you couldn't look at the Time Limit Limitation from 6th and import it into 4th via Limited Power.

I'm not entirely certain what happened.  I mean, I know what happened; I am not entirely certain of the results.  When I post from home, it's on a Mac-- this isn't my preference; it's my wife's preference.  She uses the thing more than I do, and I see no need to have a second computer, so I buy what she likes.   I do have one major complaint about them, and that's the the keyboards.  While very pretty with their white  on aluminum design, and possibly the most comfortable keyboard I have ever used with it's widely-spaced soft-touch yet-still-actual-buttons-that-must-be-pressed keys, they just don't hold up.  They aren't remotely durable, and even with routine cleaning there comes a point after about two years that they just go nuts with buttons sticking, buttons not responding, etc.
 
A few minutes ago I was composing a message to Chris Goodwin to share with him that my copy of Narosia: Sea of Tears had arrived from Noble Knight (thanks for the link!) and to give him my initial impressions on it (Haven't read it yet; just a few bits here and there.  Likely won't get time to sit down and actually read it until the July 4 shutdown at work).  Then the keyboard started flaking.  I had nearly finished the message, so I tried to soldier on,  fighting, compensating, deleting, retyping----
 
Inevitably, I lost.  I ended up with a mess of characters and gibberish and only about a quarter of a line of text.  Now with the current set-up, the trackball (man I hated that mouse.  As much a pleasure as the Mac keyboard is to use, the Mac mouse is at least as emphatic an experience to use, but in the "hellishly awful" direction) connects through the keyboard, and when I attempted to just close the window via the GUI, well things just went nuts.  Before it was over, I got the "message sent" confirmation a number of times, and I don't know what went to who or why.
 
At any rate, this is your explanation.  I have not gone insane.  No one was targeted for gibberish.  I have installed the back-up dollar-store keyboard with the gaudy lights and mega-crap construction.  I will get a new keyboard ordered shortly after my wife notices.  
 
Thank you for your understanding.
 
 
Duke
 

During the run-up to 6th edition discussions, the whole "What do *you* want to see?" set of threads, an idea I had and suggested (not taken, but oh well) was Light Levels.  The same way we have Temperature Levels and wind speeds, you define what is essentially a comfortable base light level.  At that level you're at standard sight PER, more than a level above or below is a penalty due to either it being too bright or too dark, and then you could manipulate that with Change Environment as you could with the other leveled environmental effects.

Fair enough.
 
Though I did address those questions (I believe sufficiently; there may have been gaps or omissions caused by haste):
 
Please forgive this; I do not intend a self-quote to be arrogant or aggrandizing.  It's simple that there was considerable typing.      So skipping to where the actual topic at hand is discussed sincerely, starting with why I disagree with Images, it crops down to this:  
 
 
[SNIP]
 
 Next is in reply to your statement that we had to model light / day and base it on the real world
(Not your actual words; paraphrased only for brevity with no malevolence or ill-will intended) 
 
Also included are thoughts on other ideas offered in this thread and previous threads regarding Dispel / Suppress builds
 
 
 
 
And that's why I'm pretty content, playing or running, to simply declare "it's about minus 4 dark in there" or, as a player, to accept "your flashlight cuts a silver-gray cone through the night, dust and moisture dancing like a fine fog through the beam.  You can read the words "Property of Thorsen Research" painted on the crates in large serif stencils...."
 
it keeps things moving, and it models enough to have fun.