Basil

Re: Mind swapping

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence I think I see why we aren't connecting here. At least in part. We interpret the Sense Affecting Powers differently. The way I understand them, and assume the majority of Herodom does as well, is thus: They either provide or remove information about the enviornment by adding to or subtracting from information gained through a character's senses. None of them change or alter any aspect of the characters involved. If there's an image of a slimy blob placed around character A, character A won't feel slimy, he'll feel something slimy covering/enveloping him. Likewise, if you were to use kinethetics as a sense in Hero and created an image of arms moving about around character A, It seems to me this is where you are missing Phil's point. If I understand correctly, he is not talking about "an image of arms moving about around character A," but about an Image of character A moving his own arms around. That is, the Image is what the character perceives about himself, not about some disembodied arms. Now, admittedly, this is where the sticking point about Kinesthesia comes in; it does not sense something happening outside the individual's body. If the usefulness and elegance of treating Kinesthesia as a Sense (in Hero System terms) is, to (generic) you outweighed by the "internal" characteristic of Kinesthesia, then I have little objection to your not treating it as a Sense. BTW, although the rules (5th Ed., page 121) say: "All characters with Line Of Sight notice the Image", this is contradicted by common sense. After all, I can't detect an Image to Touch (sans Targeting, etc.) if I'm outside the area covered by the Image, so there's no reason to insist an Image to Kinesthesia (or Balance, for that matter) be perceivable by someone outside the area of that Image.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence It is whimsy, but in my opinion there shouldn't a mechanic present just to satisfy a player's whimsy. I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I was saying that having a single character take "Invisibility to the Sense of Balance" would be whimsical, as he cannot be sensed by ordinary, unimproved Human sense of Balance. Now, if there were a foe who had Targeting, Discrim, or some-such on its Sense of Balance, it would not be so whimsical. The only "mechanic present" in your original statement is Invisibility, and I do no think it exists "just to satisfy a player's whimsy." If you think I urge adding Balance to the list of existant Sense solely, or primarily, out of whimsy, you sadly mistake me.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence I want any "block", etc. to the Sense of Balance to be that which occurs with a "block", etc. to any other Sense. As it says on page 114 of the 5th Edition:

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence To sum up... The problem is that you are not detecting "down", you are detecting the pull of gravity. No, you are detecting a sensation which may as well be called "down". Just as you are detecting a sensation of "light" or "noise". Such a separation between what may or may not be "out there," and the action of sensing must be made, or the Power Metal Illusions becomes impossible. If I can make a Mental Illusion of it, then there has to be a damned good reason why I can't make an Image of it. BTW, 5th Ed p.130 specifically mentions "...the target's sense of balance..." And in all the examples of Mental Illusions on that and the preceeding page there is not one, that, I bet, anyone here would deny could be done with Images, save those who who do not accept Balance as a sense. Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. However, so far is has been by the current rules for Senses. I'm suggesting that any new senses continue with that trend, as that was seems to be the purpose for those rules. I would say the purpose of any new sense is to better model those aspect of the real world that have (A) an effect in game and ( are most simply, clearly, and intuitively modeled by Senses in game-language terms. I think Kinesthesia falls into the category, but I admit I fell far less strongly about that than about the Sense of Balance. Anything can be done to the rules if one is willing to. but that doesn't make such a rule necessary or applicable. True, but I think adding another Sense is an inherently simpler and more elegant method than bodging together a bunch of Lims & Advantages on a Drain or what-have-you. Still, to each his own.

Re: Mind swapping Ah, but that would, actually, be Duplication via another method, and hence not allowable (as I understand things). Simply a matter of opinion. It would be very difficult to build with Duplication ( duplication +desolid always on + invisible + mind control + who knows what else). I'd argue that Transform is by far the simplest method (while still being rather expensive) and thus the best... I'm afraid you may have misunderstood me. I meant that a "push my mind into his body, but not put/allow his mind into mine" power is IMO better constructed with Duplication since it means there's now two of you. I don't know where you're getting this "+desolid always on + invisible + mind control + who knows what else" from. Admittedly, it would seem to need "Usable As Attack," "Focus (Human Body)," "Must Alter Physical Stats To Match Focus's," "Can Never Recombine" and "Ended By Original Making A Breakout Roll," but there's no need for Desolid, Invisible, Mind Control, or any of the rest of it. Still, if the idea of a character making a second copy of himself via Transform rather than Duplication is acceptable to you, go for it. After all, I admit it's a little odd having "Usable As Attack" on Duplication with the effect that it doesn't force the target to duplicate, rather forces the target to become a duplicate. Addendum:

Re: Horror Hero rant GMTA. That's the movie I was thinking of using as an example of the protaganists showing intelligence, cunning, and inventiveness in fighting the monster.

Re: My Avatar Get that gal some Visine!

Re: Religious Magic Idea: Looking for feedback.... In line with this: Adventurers Club #25 had an article, "Help from Above" by John Ward about a more reasonable way to do "clerics" than the war-game style D&D et al. use. Basically, it's a VPP, Usable By Others (+1/4, or more if multiple minions can use it together), No Skill Roll To Change (+1), Change As Zero-Phase (+1), Not Usable By Self (-1), Only For The Diety And His Minions (-1/2 or less), Must Call On The Diety For Aid (-1/2), No Conscious Control (praying usually starts/stops the power, and the diety might activate it w/o being prayed to; -1 1/2 to -1). It also takes an Activation Roll (-various); the Roll equals the Roll on the "Watched By The Deity" Disadvantage he takes. After all, the diety keeps an eye on his priests, and the more the diety watches, the more likely he is to notice a priest being in need. The priest also has to buy an END Reserve with Not Usable By Self (-1), Only For The Diety And His Minions (-1/2 or less), and the REC for the END Reserve takes "must pray at 0 DCV (-1/2) for 5 minutes (-2)" and "Only to the amount the diety will allow (-?)". Note that the REC should be very small compared to the size of the Reserve, so the priest needs to pray a lot; also, this allows the diety to control the END actually recovered with a fine degree of control. The article suggests the REC should be ~3-5% of the size of the pool. Thus, the diety actually performs the "spell", and the priest pays for the privilege. Rather like fantasy literature usually depicts the priest-diety relationship. Note one useful element to this set up: the size of the VPP tells how "hard a hit" the diety will do for the priest, while the size of the END Reserve tells how long he's will to put up with the priest's begging for help. *NB: all Lims not specifically in 5th Ed. are my guesstimates; change them if you wish.

Re: 5ER to 5E Page Numbering Re-bump!!!

Re: Mind swapping I think Side Effect is very appropriate as the "second transform" is VERY limiting. After all, I could just build the power exactly the same without the Side Effect, with the effect of simply duplicating my mind (pushing a copy of my mind into another character). That is far more powerful than a mind swap. Ah, but that would, actually, be Duplication via another method, and hence not allowable (as I understand things).

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Well, you could buy some kind of detect, define it being related to balance, put it in the unusual sense group, and then buy targeting for it. I still do not see how my ability to walk on a balance beam would tell me where anyone else in the room is. Because you haven't bought Targeting for your Balance. My character has, so he can tell where others are. Explain to me how your sense of balance lets you tell where your enemy in combat is and I will stop saying it. Because I bought Targeting for my character's Balance. And what about when my character has Targeting on his Sense of Balance? Then he can detect the ninja. Ok, I see where you are going with this, No, clearly you don't. I am showing that all your objections to Balance as a Sense that are based on the lack of fine discrimination, are nonsensical objections since the same objection can be leveled against Taste, Touch---hell, all the non-Targeting (in humans) senses, to some degree. I can only repeat what I said before: More accurately, it is a series of unwarrented assumptions. I.e., it is a Straw Man. Have fun knocking it down, but you fool no-one into thinking you've supported your point.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence You need to put a slash after the first "[" and before the "quote]" to end a quotation block. Also, you said "

Re: 5ER to 5E Page Numbering Bump!!! Consider yourself bugged.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Well, since Targeting Taste is not possible, and Smell can never be accurately Targeting, are they not senses? Or are you willing to "hand wave" the science? In that case, why not Targeting Balance? After all, perhaps my alien-from-another-dimension character can tell what direction is down "way over yonder". Very helpful sense in an Escherverse. Why cant smell be a targeting sense? You just have to pay the points to make it targeting. If I am playing Captain Grizzly, avenger of the wilderness, I think he might have smell so sensitive that I can target with it. Its just a matter of playing the points. As for Taste, the problem is that taste is no range in its default state. You have to touch something with your tounge to taste it. Pay the points for range and you can taste from across the room. Weird FX probably, but you can do it. Pay some more points and your ranged taste is so sensitive you can target with it. Sigh That's what I get for being clever. Please, re-read what I said, assuming I'm being satirical. Yep, that's it. My statement "since Targeting Taste is not possible, and Smell can never be accurately Targeting," while it is true in a "realistic" setting, is (as a general rule) completely arbitrary. So is saying you can't pay for Targeting for Balance, etc. There is nothing in the rules, *nor in an unfettered imagination* that forces non-Targetability on Balance. If you don't want Targeting Balance, fine. But please stop assuming your preferences have to limit my imagination. That is an unwarrented assumption.

How About Narrower, Deeper Variable Power Pools This brings up an idea/question I've had for a while. Suppose my character has a VPP with the Limitation "Only One Power At A Time". The current method of VPPs means there's no impetus for me to put Lims on the power I have in the VPP---since its Active Cost is limited to the Pool Points, a lowered Real Cost gets me nothing. IIRC, in one of the Adventurers Clubs, or HS Almanacs, was the idea of Pool Points that only increased the allowable Active Cost; they cost 1/2 Character Point per Pool Point. Does this seem acceptable to folks? What about adding to Citizen Keen's idea: To continue this example: would buying a Control Cost equal to, say, 45 points (for a max Active Cost of 90) be acceptable to (generic) you? In general, or only if the VPP was limited to a small number of powers?

Re: Mind swapping Transform, BOECV (+1), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4, probably). This comes right out of 5th Ed., page 154, which specifically using this for "Mind Trasference." Yeah, you don't like Transform as a "default to" power; however, this is specifically mentioned as the "preferred" method, so I'd say you ought to go with it. Now, the "target turns into me" bit---for that, I'd say a second, Triggered Mental Transform. Using Side Effect seems a little cheesy to me. Him-to-you is something you want, after all, not an unfortunate "also happens", so Side Effects doesn't fit, IMO. In short, it doesn't seem to me to limit the power or usefulness of the Power, so I'd say it's not a legitimate S.E. YMMV.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Yes, because he doesn't have food. W/o a sense of hunger he'd do so whether he had food or not. Says who? Oh sure, he could determine the correct down, by seeing which way things fall. And someone seeing a tiger charging him, that makes no sound and does not bend the grass under itself, can determine it's an Image. Which is irrelevant to where Sight is a sense or not. Similarly for the sense of Balance. What is light? It's (to simplify) photons. Does an Image of a laser swinging around and coming to point at your face cause burns? In HeroSystem, no; you need another power to do that. The fact that you need TK or some such to make a character "fall" does not mean Balance is not a sense. No, TK makes the character move in some direction. Balance tells him which way is "down". I can have a TK that moves someone without him perceiving that direction is "down"; I see no reason to forbid an Image of "down" that doesn't move the target. You can certainly declare that's what "down" means, but that's pretty much assuming that which you are trying prove. If "down" is defined as the direction a being feels, then the perception and the effect of gravity can be separated. And don't forget, Balance not only tells you which way is "down", but also which way you are undergoing accelerated movement. That is why "getting dizzy" is an effect of the sense of Balance. . Two points: 1) I'm not sure the "perceive the environment" requirement should be adhered to with total rigor. In the case of Kinesthesia, the usefulness of treating it as a sense outweighs any inflexible "environment vs internal state" rule. I agree though that Hunger, Thirst, etc. are better left out of any expanded list of senses 2) I'm afraid your second qualification can be met, easily, if one is willing to. Your (and others) refusal to, does not show it can't be done, merely that you're unwilling to. Which is your right, of course.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Well, since Targeting Taste is not possible, and Smell can never be accurately Targeting, are they not senses? Or are you willing to "hand wave" the science? In that case, why not Targeting Balance? After all, perhaps my alien-from-another-dimension character can tell what direction is down "way over yonder". Very helpful sense in an Escherverse.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Actually, there should be plenty of warning. Just because I don't feel hungry doesn't mean I don't feel the effects of malnutrition. I'll feel weaker, I'll hear my stomach making noises, and I'll remember that haven't eaten in a long time. I would probably also notice other symptoms long before I starve to death or even pass out. Hmmm. On second thought, I put the dangers a little too strongly. Feeling weaker was actually my main point. Passing out and starving are unlikely, but not impossible, for someone w/o a sense of hunger . Actually, the stomach stops "gurgling" after about a day-and-a-half or two days. Remembering not eating is the main method of avoiding the effects of no sense of hunger.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Any sense (in the widest meaning) that cannot be affected by Sense Affecting Powers is not a "sense" for gaming purposes. What senses that includes is up to the GM. Personally, I'd call near anything a sense-for-game-purposes, but that's me. I'd assume they can be "removed", and try to figure out what that would mean. I get the feeling you'd assume anything outside The Big Five aren't senses, unless someone makes a case for the effects of deprivation being model-able only with Flash, Darkness, etc. A person w/o a sense of hunger can starve to death, or, more significantly pass out or become weak in play, w/o warning. The victim thinks down is in a direction other than it actually is. What "other character"? Images covers an area (1 hex unless larger area is paid for, IIRC). Thus, that area is "down" (or modifies the "down" given by gravity) for all close enough to perceive the Image. "Problem" solved. The victim cannot tell which way is down. NB: You'd have to render the whole planet Invisible To Vestibular Sense. Which is UAA with a HUGE multiplier on the mass effected. Which get similar answers. E.g.' date=' Flash To Kinesthetics leaves the target unable to tell where any of his limbs are unless he looks at them. This effects the ability to aim or swing a weapon (including his fist), interferes with his walking, running, and other movements (including driving), etc. Sure, you can model it with Drains &/or Change Environment &/or negative Skill Levels, UAA. But, you can say the same thing about Flash to any of the Big Five. The question, IMO, is not can you do X, Y, or Z with the existing rules, but [u']does it make things simpler and easier to understand by adding to the list of Senses[/u] (and Sense Groups). The simplest is to count them as senses, and figure out what the results of Sense Affecting Powers are from that basis.

Re: A big cat question WW, thanks for posting that. I was say too busy yesterday to get to it. A couple of minor corrections Should be: 9 PD 5 You skipped the END costs. Should look like: 16 1d6+1 HKA, reduced penetration (-1/4) -- bite 2 12 1d6 HKA, reduced penetration (-1/4) -- claws 1 ... 12 +6" Running 1/5" You also missed: 6 +10 PRE, create fear only (-1/2), while roaring (-1/4) and the "Disadvantage": 109 Creature Bonus The whole thing goes: COSTS: Char Power Total Disadv. Base 72 + 102 = 174 = 124 + 50 Ditto. OTOH, if someone wants the description and so on, I'd being willing to post it.

Re: Near-Future Cyberspace Gaming The "Enter The Game" Extra-Dimensional Movement should drop the Linked, and the "Cyberspace Game Form" Duplication should be Linked (-1/4) to the XDM. As you have it now, a character could Duplicate in the "real world". The other powers can remain Linked to the Duplication. I'd also recommend "Leave (Primary) Body Behind (-1/2)" on the XDM, rather than what you have on the Duplication. It just strikes me as more neatly arranged that way. BTW, if "lurking" is impossible (that is, one can exist in the VR only if one has a "body"), then the Duplication should have Triggered: when the XDM is used.

Re: CALDERA Autofire System...

Re: A big cat question If you have, or have access to, the 4th edition Bestiary, the cougar is on page 138. If you want, and if it's OK with Steve Long, I can post the info from that.