薔薇語

I think it is okay and maybe best if cops take five or ten minutes to shoot some hoops. It shows that they can shoot things other than young black boys for once. It humanizes them with the community that they are meant to protect and serve. That way the next time they actually need to do work in that community they won't be seen as potential murders who are above the law but as Joe, the donaught loving fat cop who can't shoot worth crap. And that is a far better image. Now if only the cops could get thay through their sugar incrusted brains. Well that plus the idea that they need to stop stealing, lying, raping and murdering people just because they can. La Rose.

So who wants to guess the over under on when the snitching rookie bites it for crossing the blue line? Seriously, that kid has some real balls to cross the man and department that just went Bonnie and Clyde on two people. La Rose.

Yeah, I am sure that they will bring up that tip they got about how the kid that just publically schooled them just happened to have drugs or something in his car. Kinda like how that one cop happened to say the guy he just murdered stole his tazer. I believe cops even less than I can throw them. Unless they have unedited video evidence it is generally safer to assume they are lieing. La Rose.

I saw that yesterday. Cops managed to go from finally acting like decent human beings to petty and alienating jerks. Lesson to learn: just like with your boss, let the fat and pathetic cops win. At least he didn't get shot for 'resisting arrest' or other fake charge. Imagine if this kid was at work and got dragged out just satisfy some cop's ego. That could have been the end of his job. Those cops ought to be fired. La Rose.

Taxes on cigarettes are so high that some places sell under the counter cigarettes without tax. The NYPD have made it a priority to raid suspected businesses and cease the money for department use. This cop decided he didn't want to share it with his fellow theives/cops and kept it. The cops also ceased 600 'legally'. La Rose.

I am sorry I cant link the story now but NYPD just got great press when one of their officers stole 2.5k from a,shop owner on camera during a cigarette raid. When asked to investigate the police just blew it off. Only now that the videotape has come out are they even thinking of looking at their cess pool and appeasing the public's natural desire to not be robbed. La Rose.

First match is on an abandon Japanese island. Who shall I choose? La Rose.

Is that really such a bad thing? La Rose.

So, SwampThing, Man Thing, The Thing, and The Thing from outter space all walk into a bar... La Rose.

The lord commish has offered me the chance to announce my original pick for the final round. It was someome nixed earlier due to rules. Monster Mash will be swapping out A swamp thing, Grundy, for THE Swamp Thing. That is right, MM now has a super intelligent and sentient Alien Tree and The domestic Master of all things living, the animated Swamp Thing. Let's let Grundy rest this Monday. He needs it. La Rose.

I can't link the song but I guess The Reanimater: Move your dead bones would be a decent fit for S. Grundy. La Rose.

Okay. I am back ish. Thanks Hermit and Commish. La Rose.

Sorry. I saw doomsday and immediately thought of Darksied for some reason. It must be too late for me already. La Rose.

But what about the Omega beam eyes that are said to destroy everything they hit (minus Superman) and they never miss (except for Batman). La Rose.

I am Spartacus. Er... I am Groot. La Rose.

No worries. I know that the things I say in this thread have tread a very fine line so I fully inderstand your feelings of offense towards some of the things I have said. But I do try and keep my statements from being 100% inclusive, but that is that fine line I am walking. Alas, as you say we must simply agree to disagree on the finer points of our arguments. Of course those are crucial points but cest la vie. I still enjoy what you have to say and look forward to your posts. La Rose.

We can potentially arrange that, Lady Pariah. La Rose.

Of course you do. And I have no issue with you arguing with me over it. Obviously you and I have different positions. But the mere fact that I have my position and do not back down from it is not an indication that I am incapable of admitting my mistakes. Your comments above would seem to have indicated as much. That is incorrect. And the way in which you stated it was offensive, thus my reaction towards you. Just because I argue a point does not mean I think that point is infallible, just that I think it is right. I realize you have taken offense. And I don't particularly think that is a bad thing for you to feel. Nor am I arguing that you should not think that it is a bit over the top and rude. But, and I will continue this in a later quote... Okay, so I think you didn't quite make clear your view by saying "certain areas". To me that would imply you were underplaying the scope of the problem. I was arguing that it is a widespread and systemic problem and then you respond by saying "certain areas". I think you can see why I would think you were claiming it to be, in comparison to what I and others, a minor problem limited in its reach and breadth. Act like a racist? I think not. I am not condemning a group by virtue of their birth but by virtue of their collective deeds. I am also limiting my criticism to a fully voluntary group. The KKK hates people regardless of their deeds due only to the involuntary status of their birth. There is a VERY big difference. To continue from my point from earlier, the problem here is that you want to focus solely on the individuals and I am saying it is more than just an issue of individuals. The problem is systemic - something you seem to agree with. The problem has been around for a while - something you seem to agree with. The problem is not limited by locale - something you seem to agree with. And in light of those three issues this problem should not be looked as simply being individual cops acting badly. It is an issue of police forces acting badly. The collective whole is not to be trusted. The system as a whole is corrupted. Does that mean every single cop is such? No, it doesn't. And I avoid saying so for a reason. But it does mean that COPS are. COPS in the collective more abstract sense are not to be trusted. Too many police forces engage in or permit absolutely unacceptable behavior. And this is where I try to be very specific with my phrasing. I do not say "all cops" for a specific reason - that reason being expressed above. La Rose.

Well, excuse me if I don't back down just because I am challenged. You realize you are doing the same thing, right? There is a vast difference in defending one's position and not admitting one's mistakes. You accused me of the latter. That was inappropriate. Yet you still don't seem to acknowledge it. I have change my stances on subjects on these boards a couple of times and admitted to such. But I don't change my beliefs just because someone wants me to, there has to be a compelling argument for it. And I am sorry to say that you and others have not made such an argument yet. You said, and let me quote you "Is there widespread, systematic corruption in certain areas? Sure.". I used your words in the context you used them. So, yes, you did say that. When discussing widespread racism in the Jim Crow Era of US history, should I have limited my criticism to only the most specific cops involved? Or should I grasp the fact that it wasn't just individuals acting badly but a system that allows for and potentially promotes acting badly? If you think the former, then you and I are of such vastly different views that we can not reconcile them. There are terrible individual police out there. There are police out there who protect them, too. And as a whole the system seems to promote that kind of behavior. -To clarify, the behavior of protecting bad police. La Rose.

E84, the same is true from me to you, I generally like you and enjoy what you have to say. And I truly have no hard feelings towards you. So please don't read in such in my comments, they are not intended to be so (not that you are, but as a cautionary note). If you think certain individuals and groups are being jerks, I welcome you to talk about them. You never know, maybe I might learn of a new person or group to dislike. But this discussion is about police. You still have faith in the average policeman to be an upstanding and good person. A very 50s mindset, I think. But I don't. My experience with them has left me with a bad taste. My knowledge of how my own local police operate has left me with a bad taste. The rampant news stories of police acting illegally has left me with a bad taste. The stories of police and prosecutors covering up for each other finally breaks it for me and I can't bare it any more. If police want respect and to be given default trust, they have to earn it. Until then, I am just not going to put any faith in them. Too often that faith is abused. La Rose.

First, I agree that the new board system does not allow for great quoting. But Cest la vie. No one likes admitting they are wrong. But to bring that up as a charge against me, a person who has publicly come out and done so on a number of occasions is an attack on my character that is not justified in the least bit. I do admit when I am wrong and do issue apologies in accordance. So please try to understand why I think that comment was wholly inappropriate and offensive - especially coming from someone who was the benefactor of a public apology not too long ago. I think the problem here is that you think the corruption is limited to "certain areas" but it doesn't seem to be. We have various state, county, and local police official doing bad things. Forces that represent major metropolitan areas and rural areas like mine. There is no linking theme between corruptions other than 'police'. The low income black community of Ferguson was subject to wide scale corruption. The high income college town I am from is subject to it. The state highway patrol of California (where they steal nude and simi-nude photos of traffic violaters to later be sent out) is subject to it. The Blue collar, rock and roll loving people of Cleveland are subject to it. The super lib city of Portland is subject to it. And of course every major city in the US is subject to it. This isn't a "well, it is just some isolated groups" kind of thing. It is widespread and doesn't seem to be limited to any particular demographic short of "police". La Rose.

The funny thing about statistics on cops is that it is like info on the CIA, we don't really get any. Police agencies generally refuse to even report the most basic info about themselves like: how many people do we kill each year. That is a pretty easy number to generate and send off to the FBI (which, if I recall correctly they are legally mandated to do) but still they don't. And when a police force isn't even willing to be open with how many times they kill people, how well can we trust them? It certainly makes getting even basic data about abuse of power pretty darn hard, doesn't it. But lets talk about the recent Ferguson issue: the Attorney General discovered that the police there were intentionally using citations to generate a large portion (majority?) of their revenue. Police were judged by how many they gave out. Police officers would brag about how many they could give out at a single time. They also directly targeted minority groups with them. I recall that my home city installed speed cams and later on adjusted the time between red light and the photo being taken by a fraction of a second despite that being banned in our charter to the operating company because it would generate significantly more revenue. Even though the police force and the operating company knew it was illegal they did it anyway and then covered it up and denied it all the way. I think something similar happened in Chicago (or some other major city). And even when it was discovered that they were deliberately acting in an illegal manner, no charges were brought up and they got away scot-free. Heck, they got away with tons of money, too. La Rose.

E84: "Man, you have to split a lot of hairs to keep your prejudices looking clean. I believe you that most guys don't go raping people. I also believe the vast majority of cops aren't suspect. Clearly you disagree there but I can give you just as many acts of civilian on civilian brutality" Me: Again, apples to oranges. But feel free to list examples of jerks being jerks. I don't mind. But that isn't the point. The point is that the people we have put into position of authority seem to have a rampant disconnect from the very people they are meant to be protecting. Be it all the instances of harassment, racial discrimination (and other forms), the inclination towards violence, including deadly force, or of actually raping people and all the cover ups that go along with it. In my hometown alone there was a story of the prosecutor dilberately going after a guy and putting him in jail for 25 years with the help of the police because they needed someone to blame and didn't care who. And they KNEW he was innocent. In my hometown alone it was revealed recently that the police had been deliberately expanding on their budget using civil forfeiture for years and actually budget in accordance with the idea they will steal X million dollars a year from people. In my hometown alone we had to institute new regs on police because they were caught tazing old women to death. In my hometown alone we have had issues with cops stealing money from houses when they do crime scene investigations. I can remember when we got a new police chief and he had to rewrite and enforce driving rules because cops would constantly do 20 to 40 miles over the speed limit in their patrol cars even when NOT going to a crime scene. I had plenty of interactions with cops. And with the exception of one guy, they all seemed like overgrown bullies who were a single step away from snapping and had no regard for the laws. And my hometown is a fairly small and liberal college town. For there to be so many instances of police overstepping, corruptions, and generally bad behavior, is a sign that the culture of policing must be in part to blame. E84: "And again, even if I had a personal experience with a dirty cop I've had personal experiences with three rape victims (2 female, 1 male) I've had personal experiences with numerous thieves..." Me: And I have had experiences with several rape victims, too. I am thankful that I don't know any rapists or thieves first hand, though. But that has no connection to whether or not police can be trusted. Again, Apples to oranges. But at least we can both agree that Limp Bizcuit fans are weird. La Rose.

Oh, please, PG, you of all people know I am more than capable of admitting my mistakes and doing so in public since I have done so to you not too long ago in this thread. So don't give me that BS. You are better than that. I do complain about specific incidents. But those complaints are on a daily basis. The problem being that I never run out of material to complain about. Far too many incidents to count have gone down for this to be a 'few bad apples'. Far too many extreme cover ups for this to be 'a few bad apples'. As to you actually reporting your German counterpart - Good job. That is exactly what should have happened. But given your posts on the topic, can you see why I didn't know you actually reported him. But you did and I am sorry for assuming otherwise. My apologies. La Rose.

No, not all cops. Just a significant number. And didn't you admit to watching a German cop steal money from someone by personally collecting a fine he chose to place? As I recall you didn't report him. That isn't acceptable behavior, in my not so humble opinion. So, I get that you don't think much of the event. And probably most cops don't. But that is EXACTLY the problem. Small scale lapses only encourage larger problems. La Rose.