AnotherSkip

I knew we'd eventually get to the best part. Agreeing. really the best part of any system is the friends you have to share it. and the Spell System of AD&D is kinda based upon the magic system from Jack Vances works. so as long as you understand where things are from you can kinda rationalise the system. D&D can be a cool amalagam of stuff, until you want something really different.

Hmmm What About Sleepy Hollow? Pretty decent sci/fantasy mix. basically being a witchhunter in NY. Definately Kool.

hmm the Money Perk with SFX: Lucky or Sticky fingers? could work........

Oh, yeah, to answer your question I think it can add to an experience, handled poorly it can be a problem. Typically most people ignore it or have Comon be the default.

WOW! i forgot something on my campaign im working on! the Computer did not have a language writeup! (the Book did however) OOPS! well i use the following system for the FH campaign I have been working on for over a year now. Languages: There are only 9 languages in the Common Empire They are in order of usage: Hizar - for humans Tradespeak - the Common type toungue Dre - for Dralasites (non-Dralasites may only purchase one point of comprehension) Ch'kk - For Vrusk Sole' - For Desnarii Seven - For Yazarians Huntsman -found only among Glabe/Lupus Peasants Silent Hand - Mercenary/Millitary/Ranger sign language. That should give you some ideas.

Sounds good nuf ta print. i do the same thing with Kingdoms in my campaigns (ie Desnarii has TF:Sleighs and Sleds and KS: History of Desnarii which is different than the Twin Duchies with TF: (specific type of riding animal) and Concealment, which is different from all the others.

But.... but .... but..... How do they taste?

Actually i suspect that lack of popularity is due to a lack of quality in the issues Submissions category. Dragon is pretty hit or miss. 259 is a particular gem though, in addition to the Designer Desmenes it has Villianous motivations and 200+ non-monster encounters in random encounter charts. Veddy Vedddy Crunchy.

I Dont think we need to worry, after all we all know people who memorise the books completely (heck i still have the entire 1E MM in my head......)and we can just use the "unoffical" sugestions here to liven things up.....

In order to make Blood Sucking a vaible need I would suggest having the players start out with 0 Body and a Transfer Body to Body with the "recovery" rate bought to 1 point per day. Makes blood suckers _much_ more worried about combat, and you don't have to kill the target in order to survive....

Oh yes by the way For the record I agree with tetsubo's Quote "Points (equal points or even very precisely calculated points) do not make balance happen in play. Instead, balance in play is what shows the points and costs were appropriate." Yep you are right, however if a Gm does not make them cool then they are wasted. Howabout a character who builds a Great Cleave character and then you never run into more than two creatures at a time? Are not _those_ points wasted? Basically it is up to the Gm and the player to work together to make the character workable as well as valuable. and that is the rub it equally applies to _every_ system. Not just Hero not just D&D, every system. So Basically Tetsujii's rant is not about the HERO system but about ALL systems.

Actually there are still problems with 3E which you point out as advantages. you arbitrarily suggest "making new classes" Seems strange. Isn't everything we need in the main books? however your efftorts at considering balance for them are very odd. id say nonexistant. Quite simply put here are no balancing factors to even suggest what you are suggesting. At least in Hero I have some idea of what certain abilities can do for a person. Also lets say you do this Skills for everything else. is it balanced at 20th as it is at 3rd? And Monster CR's are problematic. Do you realise that hey are balanced only for the first level? After that there is severe problems. Besides if i played a Troll (CR 10) in a typical campaign of characters from 5th-8th I could easily violate those limits? Sorry I still see no balance, the limit on _me_ is leveling, and moneyvalue. it still does not create inherent game blance. Even an ogre with CR4 in a group ranging the 5-8th is at a great advantage since by that point he can get stacking armor that is magical and works with his Natural armor and he can buy/get stuff that works well with his other attributes as well as compensating for his weaknesses. A smart party will outfir their best fighter with the best gear they can get him and keep him up and going on the front lines. No party is going to _try_ to make everyone balanced. trust me bubba but switching gear around just to prepare for a fight is pretty common. Heck i remeber my 1E, 19 Str Halfling thief(Girdle of Giant Str) kicking Waaaaaaay more tail than she should have...... Because you can "Suit up" a character with the best stuff a party has and easily walk over what would be appropriate challenges to the rest of the party. Im sorry but CR is just as broken as you seem to think that the Hero system points are.

The FLGS or the issues they have 5-6 copies of? Probably because the issues are of Dragon magazine?

Hmm based upon what is happening in your campaign as well as what happened in a knight/dragon lordling/feif sort of book (a series by a guy I cannot remember....) I would do the following: everyone with uninvested points gets some baseline: Manor, Grounds (defined as desmene) possibly some ineffective NPC's. Then people who have points to spend or wish to do so then get to spend the points on the base buying what they think they need. Followers, Seige Equipment, income, a good Seneschal, Laboratories, Allies, Contacts, Training grounds, Forges, Smithies!!!!!!!! Now then I personally had an AD&D Dwarf who used the third wish from his ring of wishes to tell him "the best way to build and accquire...." his ultimate dream of a Dwarven fighting force. Note, the actual wish was written out and is two pages long. But the important parts were it only told him "the best way" and it more or less only governed the development of those forces.

It's veddy... veedy... *ploink* Need to do some Tin golems and Jello cubes also.....

Whoah Gud jeelo shuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Need to do some Tin golems and Jello cubes also.....

One more jello Shot please Need to do some Tin golems and Jello cubes also.....

Need to do some Tin golems and Jello cubes also.....

Well actually why one one of the "new" skills in 5th, Analyze? something along the lines of Analyze: Stolen Goods or some other somesuch title. Seems like a perfect fit, besides cuts down on everyone wanting Scholar just to get a break on half the skills in the game.

Ehhh dont worry abut me zapping you. tetsubo seems to have a penchant for trying to beat people over the head like the club I named him after. Since he cannot read his own posts however. as well as those of others especially when the Gm says "I have to create my own magic system" and then Tetsubo rants about " if i can buy magical powers with no magic skill, if i can use the delayed advantage to get spells really cheap, and so on and so on and so on... "-tetsubo When most of these questions would be answered By The Creation Of A Magic System. Verry intelligent there Tetsubo. Im sooo proud of you. Heck Tetsubo lessee here you build a "balanced" Scientist that is well balanced with the other characters in 3RD. Using only the stuff in the main book. Good Luck. I can in HERO. As for your confusion about Xp you _must_ be having problems if you don't know 3RD edition SRD well enough to find the 10% xp Rule it relates to the Priamry stats of a class. I'd look it up and point it out to you except I dont ever want to pick up another 3RD book again. Very standard. A non optional rule. Been in the books for years and the 3RD ed rules lawyer GM I was under last sure as heck couldn't get rid of it. Isn't there a multiclassing penalty for having multiclasses outside of your (whatever they called it? the racial preferred class? IIRC) if they are separated by more than 2 levels? IIRC it is 10% per class. Geee that sounds like' a limitation on multiclassing which would lead to weaker characters. However there is a problem with Tetsubo that perhaps tetsubo is not aware of. tetsubo has managed to modify the 3RD system so much he is not playing 3RD anymore. Tetsubo has built the "Tetsubo system" and therefor he is happpy with it (though he has not renamed the system yet) and he is soo happy with it and cannot understand _why_ people are unhappy with 3RD after all it just took 10,000+ decisions to make his happy system. So poor misunderstood Tetsubo goes out and tries to suffer the slings and arrows and encourages the misunderstood masses to play the system he is so haapy with.

yeah especially since it covers the Skills and Powers for second edition and practically worshippes it as th greatest thing since sliced bread.

Re: Re: Why are you here? BTW, i don't recall seeing you jumping those "why hero is better" guys for posting their stuff? So is this egalitarian "whatever works for you is cool dont post specifics" only reserved for anti-hero-is-great posters?[/b] Oh wait, I have an answer!!!! They aren't arses, so they don't get jumped. YMMV, I just like to do more work upfront so the players have a better understanding of their world going in. [/b] So now then you prefer to do more work upfront? I thought you did not like to do alot of work upfront? Isn't this a contradiction fo your previous posts? Yep it sure is. What is Tetsubo's problem? Perhaps it is a lack of concentration. I would describe that world as woefully incomplete at the point that you stopped. I mean as a player i would want to know if i can buy a laser rifle, if i could have a PC who is a scientist, if i can buy magical powers with no magic skill, if i can use the delayed advantage to get spells really cheap, and so on and so on and so on... is +22 OCV with my main attack reasonable for a untrained warrior? is it low? etc etc etc.[/b] Uhhh I _SERIOUSLY_ doubt that you have covered those in your campaign notes. If not and you feel uncomfortable with just answering a few questions in front of your players off the cuff then you need the 3RD thought crutch of playing out of the book. If so then it describes the average intelligence of your players as being worrisome. Get new players. Besides can I have a 22 BAB in a 1st level fighter? Oooh can I have a Magic Missile spell that ignores the armor casting restrictions because im a Scientist? can my Rogue have an X-ray laser rifle? That is the level of intelligence you are showing for your players and yourself. *pats Tetsubo on the head and leaves*

Wow Tesujii. Naww ill rename you Tetsubo. Congratulations i now never want to look at another 3RD book so long as i live. You are Soooo wrong and here is why. Math. You just reminded me there is _more math_ in a 3RD character than a FH character!!!!!!!!!! OKies first off the odds of my FH character (which is what we are _really talking about_ 3RD has nothing else for it) will have a lim or an advantage on a stat is really very small. you have to add them up and cross index , Just like in 3RD. Skills have points Just like in 3RD. BAB=CSL's and imdone. in addtion I can build powerful characters that_never_ have an adjustment that requires fractional equations. However in D&D if my Primary stat(s) exceed certain limits I have to multiply my xp by 10%. and If my gm gives them out weekly i have to do the same bsic calculation weekly. most Xp totals come out to things like 1537 or 2462. in a low campaingn that xp calculatin can mean the difference between one week and the next of leveling. I can build a character that does not ever need to do that adjustment either, but he would be lacking in several primary areas. hmmm Tetsubo, Probably be better for you if just quit on the math subject. I would suggest you try the Amber diceless roleplaying system. Little math to hide the subjectivity behind, which makes it verry different from AD&D. YAWN. try again.

Bubba Tetsujii Here is the simple of it. Build two characters just like you did then throw out HERO5.92. Here ill do it for you. STR 60 Dex 30 CON 30 BOD 30 Int 10 EGO 10 PRE 10 COM 10 PD 12 ED 6 Stun 75 REC 18 speed 5 end 60 Extra limb tail (60 strength) This character costs 205 for these traits. Now if i buy the character with a strength 30 tail without he costs less STR 60 (-1/4 on 30 strength) Dex 30 CON 30 BOD 30 Int 10 EGO 10 PRE 10 COM 10 PD 12 ED 6 Stun 75 REC 18 speed 5 end 60 Extra limb tail (30 strength only) This guy costs 199. Rules to know... HERO5.112 Limited manipulation which specifically spells out the way to point out extra limbs that use less than the full strength as a -1/4 limit on the STR or DEX. HERO5.92 under characteristics which specifically states the if the limitation on the primary does not effect the figureds, then you dont get the figureds. However to show what would actually happen if you dropped this rule it was (of course) dropped Now then what happened? Ill 'splain it to you Lucy.* you built a character that in the end is just as powerful as the guy without the 30 strength tail for six points cheaper, or to look at it differently got the extra tail for free and got a one point reduction for buying his strength just as high as the other character by taking a non-limiting limit. If you built your character without the "limited" tail would you feel good about this? That is the reason why some limits are set to where there _is_ no benefit to them _unless_ it is for character concept. i suspect that when you found the problem you were really looking for mathmatical problems with the system you have found what, two? everthing else is subjective. Just like your much vaunted D&D system. It would be possibly be more accurate to do a chart and show how the actual diasadvantage should be scaled to the level of STR it is just easier to set it at the minimum level and be done with it. HERO has better things to do than subbalance a fairly minor rule, I f you _really_ think it is a problem then subbalance the thing yourself show _all_ the math and then post it. Steve reads many of these posts himself and if he can see your logic and your math is sound you will be making a good game better. Steve has done this before with lowering the Sun multiplier cost. However it would be better if you kept the attitude right out of there and presented it as straightforward as possible. /humor on *End result we like to call powergaming munchkinism. We try to cut down on that alot. Happens when we get these darn D&D players though. /humor off

Good you can look at my approach Also as a side note and a reminder this will actually be a series of updates to the first page rather than multible posts. And Steve would you be interested in something along the range of a DH article rather than "free spamming"? After all I have to get DH publishing credits somehow.......