Erkenfresh

Part 2: Vehicle Movement and Combat Rules Vehicles fight pretty much like characters do. There are several main differences: - Vehicles can’t turn on a dime like someone on foot can. In this game, the basic vehicle has a “Turn Mode” which means the vehicle must move forward a certain percentage of it’s speed before turning one hex side. - In 5ER, Turn Mode allows a vehicle to turn 6 times in a single Phase. In this game, the base amount will be 3, but upgradable to 6 with better vehicle suspension. This will be called handling. More handling is better. With a handling of 3, you may turn one hex side at the beginning of the move, then one hex side one-third of the way through the move, then one hex side two-thirds of the way through the move. With a handling of 4, turn at every one-fourth of the move. Etc. - In vehicles, most of the maneuvers (Block, Dive for Cover, etc.) can’t be done, with the exception of Dodge. A driver may Dodge to gain a +3 DCV bonus to the vehicle until his next Phase by making a Half Move and doing nothing else. The driver must succeed at a combat driving roll for the bonus to apply. - The base rules allow vehicles to hold actions. This doesn’t make sense as that would mean the vehicle suddenly stops but then speeds up again when the held action is performed. Because of this, vehicles may not hold actions. The driver may wish to hold his action to fire a vehicular weapon or use a device in the vehicle in a Segment after the vehicle moves. If he does so, he may only perform a Half Move. - A vehicle’s effective DEX and SPD are the lower of the driver’s DEX and SPD and the vehicle’s DEX and SPD. - When another vehicle is hit during an attack (ramming and use of wheel spikes excluded), roll for hit location. You can either use the optional effect on page 192 of TUV or the following simple rules. Rolling a 3 indicates a hit on the front tires and an 18 on the rear tires. Use the wheel’s DEF and BODY to see if the tire pops. A roll of 10-12 indicates a hit on the driver of a motorcycle and a roll of 11 indicates a hit on the driver of other vehicles. Normal windows will provide no defense to the driver so such a hit could prove extremely lethal! Also use common sense. A vehicle shooting at another vehicle in front of him going the same direction is unlikely to hit the front tires so ignore such a roll in this case. - If a tire is popped, that vehicle’s movement is scaled down according to the percentage of bad tires. For example, a car with three good tires and one popped tire would have a max speed of 75% it’s normal speed. The handling of the vehicle also decreases by 1 per tire popped. A motorcycle that gets a tire popped automatically crashes unless the driver makes a combat driving roll to avoid the crash. Even then, the motorcycle is undrivable until the tire is fixed. Back to the main thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52256

Part 1: Background Story The world was peaceful until six years ago when the great cataclysm of 2012 began. The disease was an insidious one, spreading through the air and incubating for several weeks before showing it’s symptoms. First, the victim became extremely paranoid, distrusting all but his closest relatives and friends. This behavior was the start of many large wars throughout the world which resulted in the destruction of modern society. If the victim lived about two to three months beyond that, he generally had a major heart attack that would cause his untimely death, though this didn’t always happen. For some reason, about 1% of the population was immune to the disease, and only some of them survived the world’s wars. Eventually, the disease ran it’s course and had affected all possible hosts over the course of about a year. Many places of the world are uninhabitable due to nuclear fallout and the use of biological and chemical weapons caused horrific mutations in animal and plant life, making the Earth very unhospitable. Most of the world’s best technology had fallen into ruin except for one fairly simple device, the car. As the survivors settled into small villages, they found the use of cars to be an excellent tool for trade… and protection from the disease’s victims that only succumbed to the first phase of the disease. Even those survivors who were immune to the disease grew to distrust one another, often fighting for territorial rights and resources using cars with mounted weapons to settle the score. The survivors often wonder if the disease was natural or was it manufactured? Is there a cure for the remaining victims? Is there some part of the world that was unaffected by the catacylsm? A paradise in which to live in peace? Of course this is pretty generic. Feel free to make up whatever story you can to account for the following things: - Ground vehicles being used primarily for combat - The absence of complex air vehicles - The annihilation of the world’s major governments (or perhaps just the government of the area you’ll be adventuring in) - A multitude of untrusting factions that often fight for survival - The existence of aggressive, mutated animals and plants to fight Back to the main thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1238815#post1238815

Hello! I've been toying with the idea of a post-apocalyptic setting where most of the battles are carried out in car vs. car action. Why, you may ask? Many of my players are very interested in cars anyway, and it seems like a nice change of pace from our Fantasy Hero game where everything is on foot. I've decided to summarize many of the main points to help flesh out the campaign ideas. I've seperated them into several parts to make it easier to comment on each section individually and have a meaningful discussion. I'm very open to suggestions! These are the links to the other threads I have created so far: Part 1 background story: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52257 Part 2 custom vehicle movement and combat rules: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52258 Part 3a vehicle design and essential equipment: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52259 More info coming including non-essential equipment and character creation!

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running Something else about all this. If I present my players with several different engines they can buy for their cars, the normal rules would say to build it as "+X of Running". But this would mean the very same engine would be 50% faster in a SPD 3 car than a SPD 2. Let's take it a bit further shall we? A vehicle can decelerate at 5" per hex of movement, up to the combat running per Phase. Let's say vehicle A has 30" of Running and SPD 2 while vehicle B has 30" of Running and SPD 4. Both vehicles are going the full 4x non-combat velocity of 120" and the drivers of both cars decide to slam on the brakes to a dead stop at the same time. On Segment 12, both vehicles drop by 30" to 90" of velocity. Now, here's where it gets strange. On Segment 3, vehicle B will drop down to 60" while vehicle A remains at 90". Continuing this out, vehicle A will come to a stop one full turn after vehicle B does. Now, why should the SPD of the car affect how the brakes work? Maybe that's just what SPD is supposed to mean, but if that's true here's what you get for buying SPD for a vehicle: 1. Faster top speed 2. Faster acceleration 3. Faster deceleration 4. Better handling 5. More bonus from Aids to Running 6. More attacks/maneuvers per Turn It seems like too much for just 10 points per SPD. Buying 1-5 from above without increasing SPD would cost well over 10 points to go from an effective SPD 2 to SPD 3, and that's without the bonus of #6. Now, I can see arguments against all of this for a superhero campaign. You probably don't want to spend 120 points for your SPD 6 speedster to run 120" per Turn. It would make the rest of the character a bit point-strained. And superhero campaigns aren't exactly striving for realism.

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" Sweet.

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" I thought of something earlier to add some spice to the campaign idea. What if the cause of the "apocalypse" was zombies overtaking the world? The ones who survived lived out in rural areas but managed to cluster together for protection into small towns. Too many themes at once?

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" I read quite a bit into TUV and it's definitely adding some good ideas for the whole thing. Maybe I'll type up a brief overview of campaign rules and post it. What's the appropriate forum for this anyway? (Fantasy Hero?) :smile:

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running The benefit is simply balance. When you buy SPD you get a significant increase to movement, which should really be bought up with more Running. Items like Turbochargers for a car that give an Aid or Succor to Running shouldn't give bigger boosts to cars with more SPD right? I think +10" of Running should affect a SPD 2 car and a SPD 4 car equally. Using the mechanic devised here, the Aid would be defined as adding "20 points" of Running or in other words "20" of Running per Turn" to be divided out amongst the Phases the character or vehicle takes. Anyhow, not really a big deal. As far as vehicles are concerned, it's a cost issue for my campaign idea where the heroes probably won't pay points (just dollars) for their vehicles. So, it's just a matter of using the right amount of points to determine how much the vehicle costs is money.

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running Yes, that's another way of putting the idea. I suppose Drains or Aids to Running would then be expressed in terms of movement per turn instead of per segment, then let the players do the rest of the math.

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" I picked up a copy of The Ultimate Vehicle but haven't started reading it yet. I have to agree that the basic rules of vehicle combat in HERO, well, let's be honest, they suck. The last starship combat I ran was quite boring, considering that placement on the board seemed to have no effect on what was happening. But, I'm hoping TUV will have some interesting things to offer. While I consider starting to read through TUV, I may post some ideas and questions from time to time. What would make vehicle combat more interesting? I'm considering buying some hot wheels that they could "drive" around on the battle mat with. Limited arcs of fire and dropped weapons should make placement on the board more important. Special care for acceleration, deceleration, and handling of vehicles would be good too. Performing stunts might increase combat bonuses. Etc.

I've been thinking about how odd it is that SPD affects not only the number of actions one can take in a Phase but also how far they can run. For example: Character A: 2 SPD, 10" Running (40 points, 20" per Phase) Character B: 3 SPD, 7" Running (44 points, 21" per Phase) OK, so B has spent 4 more points in total but with the much added bonus of having that extra speed. It's like character B bought 1 more SPD for just 4 points, not to mention he can cover 1" more of ground per Phase. What if instead of costing 2 points per 1" of Running, it cost SPD points per 1" of Running. In that case, character A would spend the normal 2 points per inch and character B would be spending 3 points per inch. So now you have: Character A: 2 SPD, 10" Running (40 points, 20" per Phase) Character B: 3 SPD, 7" Running (51 points, 21" per Phase) So now, the difference in costs is closer to where it should be, with character B getting +1 SPD and +1" Running (for the entire Phase) for 11 points. Most of the time, this isn't a problem but it might get confusing if the SPD of the character changes, either through an Aid, a Drain, or by spending points to increase it. In this case, a simple conversion can adjust Running to the correct value. For example, getting drained from 3 SPD to 2 SPD should increase Running by 50%. For purposes of buying up to a new SPD, the character should sell off all Running at the old cost and buy it back up at the new cost (and I guess keep the leftover points unspent). I'm only mulling this over because I might want to make detailed vehicle rules and "top speed" should be something that isn't necessarily affected by SPD (which more closely represents the handling of the vehicle). So, popping that nitro should have about the same affect on a SPD 4 car as a SPD 2 car as far as increasing it's top speed, rather than having double effect on the SPD 4 car. Any input is appreciated!

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" Autoduel Champions! What's that? PS: May not be back until after Christmas. Happy Christmas, Hannukah, New Year, and everything in between, and stuff.

Re: Who would play this? "Car Hero" One more thing, is this just "Post-Apocalyptic Hero" and I should just wait for that to be published?

I was thinking of campaign ideas and one interesting thought was "Car Hero". It's a post-apocalyptic setting of some sort where combat is mainly handled with cars, since they would be the handiest way to get around in a post-nuclear wasteland. There's plenty of opposing factions, with the possibility of mutants, aliens, or even subterranian monsters to spice things up. There'd have to be a lot of rules tailored to vehicular combat which would make The Ultimate Vehicle an essential source book. I figure you could go into great detail about the guns, so Dark Champions might help out a bit. Vehicle types could range from sedans, sports cars, motorcycles, armored vans, or semis each with their unique advantages and disadvantages. Motorcycles would be fast but lightly armored, for example. I figure the idea of turn mode should be greatly expanded to make a vehicle's handling ability matter. Arc of fire could be altered some to create rotating turrets. OCV penalties for fast moving targets should be implemented. Etc. There's plenty of deviations from the main rules that would really help enhance the combat. Aside from all this car combat, there's still plenty to do once you step out of the driver's seat. Gambling, drinking, bar fights, gun fights in dark alleys, and even political intrigue as you attempt to unite factions to bring peace back to the world. So, would you play this? Sounds pretty neat to me, I'd certainly play it. Any ideas on how to expand on this are also greatly appreciated. Discuss.

Re: Inverse Find Weakness Yeah but Lack of Weakness will make it harder for it to work against you. What's the point of buying more armor just to counter Find Weakness when there's already Lack of Weakness?

Re: Constant vs. Persistent

Re: Constant vs. Persistent I think if you buy Persistent for an Instant power, then the power lasts until the end of the Segment even if you get knocked out. That's all you get for +1/2. If you want it to last longer, then it needs to be a Constant power. At least, I that's how I interpret it.

Re: Campaign Maxima for Characteristics I used a similar method for my current FH campaign. It very much encourages min-maxxing. It would be nice to somehow make those characteristic bonuses/penalties matter for the racial packages but I don't really have any ideas. I see nothing wrong with a very strong elf or a very dextrous half-giant. They may be outside the norm, but as heroes, the whole party should be anyway.

Re: create item and cost Hi Steph! There are several routes you can take for a person to create a magical item: 1. The creator pays character points for the item. 2. The creator pays gold for the item. 3. Gold and points! In Fantasy Hero, I believe they go into using the "Independent" limitation. This signifies that what the creator makes can be taken away from him and those points are lost forever. Take the following two items, the only difference being "Independent": 24Bonecleaver: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2)0 13Bonecleaver: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2)0 When the creator makes the item, he'll pay 13 points for the "Independent" version. After that, he can give or sell it to someone else. They can lose it or have it stolen, or even broken. Let's say the creator wants to go the extra mile and make a version that can't be lost or stolen. He'd pay 24 points to make it without "Independent". The item might get temporarily lost or broken, but the character can never really lose it permanently. He may get it confiscated and such, but it's up to the GM to make sure they reunite at some point. You can also do away with paying points for making items and just have the creator spend money and time on it. Might be OK.

Re: Creative Writing - Myths That's a nice story.

Re: "Naked Advantage" How much should the limitation "only while naked" be worth? I'd say probably -1/4 or so.

Re: Need help with Weapon Levels You should thumb through or buy a copy of Dark Champions. It has some optional rules about "Equipment Pools". Players have to pay points to get more Active Points worth of equipment "in use" at a time. They can have a huge collection of guns at home but only a limited amount with them. So, you could work the points out such that you can only bring one gun and one defense along per outting.

Re: dispel Steph, you may be thinking of Suppress or Drain. If you Suppress or Drain one power that requires a focus then I think it Suppresses or Drains all powers that require that same focus. (At the very least that makes some sense). As for Dispel, it simply stops that one spell and that's it.

Re: Making the math easier If you have brand new players, this might work OK. Otherwise, they're gonna be more confused than just using the values as they are.