phoenix240

I've seen GURPS games implode for the same reason. There seems to be a need or drive to use all the rules in the books or, if they don't want to use those options and rules to demand they be cut from the books so no one else can use them (at least not without additional effort).

The endless fight is one experience I haven't had from Hero barring coaching first time players. Barring that the longest Heroic Hero System fights I've had (involving about a dozen combatants all totaled) took an hour. That was a huge, complicated battle. Most take about 20-30 minutes about the same as any other game. And significantly less than Exalted 2nd a "simpler" system by some claims where a four on four battle took 3 and a half hours. Now I have a long Superheroic fight but it was meant to be huge. It involved three full teams of superhumans and squads of mookss that took place across a shopping mall the size of the Mall of America. In a comic it would have been the entire issue or more and was broken up with some role play side scenes. But it did take awhile to settle but was incredibly fun not a slog like the Exalted battle.

And there's much more innate familiarity in the gamng world with d20/DnD derived games less starting from 0.

Fourth Edition Fantasy Hero did a pretty good emulating the Pick a class, pick a race" character building found in many fantasy games with racial and professional package deals, IMO. My players seemed tp think so too.

Yes I do. I'm talking about the similar thread on rpg.net and my opinion of it. I thought I was pretty clear about that. I didn't say it was a "bad thread" (whatever that means) I said I found it to be a downer. I have a different opinion of the mood there than you do. As for the echo chamber comment, please dial back the attitude a little. I don't agree with you about the mood of the thread I didn't personally insult you. Stuff like this is the reason I only lurk over there. This thread hasn't been an "echo chamber" either but its been less oppressive, negative and angry. Which is fairly typical of rpg.net. IMO That's why I don't even lurk that much there these days. And if anyone is interested in forming their own opinion about the sister thread I'm sure they can look for themselves. I provided a link.

I was being a little cheeky. This thread isn't that bad. The rpg.net version, on the other hand...

Man, this thread has turned out to be a bummer. Everything I like in an rpg (flexbility, options, customization even skill lists) is not only passe and outdated its going to drive any new players I bring in fleeing into the night, bereft of SAN.

Going to give it to Boloofearth. Great stuff though I was hoping for a couple of more entries, that one really did hit the right spot for the image.

I know. That's what I and the others I've introduced to the system liked about them the here's how to build it (or modify) it yourself material with an eye towards using the core rules to emulate specific genres. If I wanted a a shopping list of how someone else thought the game I wanted to create should ework to pick from we could chosen any number of games. I'm fine with a mixture. There sort of is one already. The genre books tend to have allot of pre built things and there were books like the Grimoires, Power data bases, etc. But for some of us the options are selling point and presenting them a draw. It makes the "complexity" worth it. There wasn't a one true way with Hero System. That's what made it attractive to us.

I like the genre books with advice on how to use the base rules for specific styles and genres and how to create (or translate) things into Hero System terms. I really found them very useful even inspirational and illustrative of the HS's flexibility. No reason there can't a mix. The previous genre books have had templates, package deals, pre built equipment and other items along with campaign and mechanical suggestions and avice.

Reaver, Slash and Leer are particularly good, IMO

Yep There's so little data available about this topic so we have to mostly rely on anecdotal evidence and personal observation.

I can't put total stock in the idea that in "today's market" only so called Rules Light games can find any success given that current some of the most successful games are pretty darn crunchy. Pathfinder. DnD/d20, Exalted, GURPS to name a few. Presentation seems to matter most. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to crunch perception has allot to do with it.

This is allot like we've done new players to help them and its been pretty useful.

I think it is a fair question (but perhaps one for another thread) how much can (and should) Hero System be changed (simplified, modernized, whatever you want to call it) before its not the same system if only in feel? And is it worth it to make that level of change? Would be creating a potentially successful version of Hero System or potentially successful new game with the same name and does that matter?

What sort of improvement do you think would help?

Aside from the complete books has their been much new product since 6th edition and how have they sold? How bad is the patient before we start tossing on dirt and getting out our black suits

Thanks! So what do you make of this fellow?

I love Taco Bell and eat there all the time but it hasn't had much to do with Mexican food for a long time

First poutine, now this. The Canadians haven't kicked our butts so hard on our home turf since they torched the white house.

Should we proceed on with "First post is next entry"?

It matters but its highly subjective, IMO. The WoD players that tried Hero versions of their character better than the original as they felt the played more like imagined vampires and were wolves should without the Storyteller-isms. The dragon that attacks multiple times in the time in space of time it takes most being to attack ones would have high dex, high spd and possibly other abilities (area of effect, autofire, linked attacks of levels eith Multi Attack to make them more effective) to represent that in Hero. But, no, nothing is going to be perfect for everybody and everything.

And unfortunately its quite common IME. Another is "I love cupcakes and I hate brownies. Why aren't these brownies!?" complaints demanding that something change completely to appease your particular tastes.

When it comes to translating abilities from another system into Hero it takes some understanding of the difference between Hero mechanics and other home system are going to impact how the ability functions. "Claw/Claw/Bite" style attack patterns takes place over turns that, in Hero, represent more than one phase phase so are probably better represented in Hero as additional Speed, perhaps only to attack or assumed to be part of the creature's base Speed. The important part (IMO) is translating "This beast is a deadly opponent with multiple ways of inflicting lethal damage)" then literally translating how it functions in it home system. IOW, its possible to be too literal when translating from one system another. If something can attack 4 times a round in its home system (where rounds are maybe 6-12 seconds long) might not be best shown by giving it the ability to act 4 times a Phase in Hero System. That's something books like Fantasy Hero should cover for their genres. I was under the impression that various "X" Hero books were pretty good sellers in their own right and they generally seemed well received though they weren't setting books though some contained some suggested setting. Is the idea to split that up more?

To each there own. I love Hero's skill system. For me its one of the best parts of the system and Fate's just left me scratching my head. But that was the point. Somethings are going to click with some people better than others. I don't think its a matter of Objectively Better (or Worse) in most cases.