Christopher R Taylor

Exactly, its an end-around the rules that I used in the Codex several times.  Many Shaman spells involve a fetish or totem which they can hand to anyone, or keep themselves.  They're built as an OAF since anyone can grab and use or gain benefit from the item as long as the spell lasts.

Its like building a Regeneration Gun.  Anyone can grab it and pull the trigger.

Good point; the Hero system is a toolkit, and its used to build a variety of types and settings.

For example, I added a "mana" stat to my Fantasy Hero game, fuel for spells.  Not all campaigns would necessarily use all skills or stats and that's fine.  But taking stuff away from the core game (such as what was done with Comeliness) results in less flexibility and fewer options for some settings.  If you don't like a stat or don't think its useful, don't use it.  If you build a Fantasy Game where you decide Energy Defense is now Magic Defense, and mundane energy attacks just go against PD, then do it.

I agree, some of the defenses tripling make little sense.  Flash defense and knockback resistance are very difficult to defend.  DCV is even difficult to defend.  I can see Flash Defense possibly being the defense against some AVAD attack but that's not just rare, its an extreme exception.

Further, if you compare the relative cost of two characters built, one with and one without automaton powers like that, the cost totals are far larger on the automaton than their relative power level.

In other words: character A is a normal character, Character B is an automaton.  Character B will cost 100+ points more than Character A, and will even have lower defenses (since they don't buy any vs stun).  But they aren't, objectively and in practice, 100+ points more powerful.  They don't hit harder, they don't move better, they don't have more skills.  They just can't be knocked out or bled.

Which strongly suggests to me that the tripling cost of defenses may be too great, even assuming you buy none of the questionable powers such as Knockback Resistance.  It would be worth a close cost analysis to see if perhaps lowering that to double would be more reasonable.

2d6 skews the results if you want each SPD point to have equal value (discussed further below)

RIght, the advantages are that it skips phase 1 and weights toward 6-7 which is middle of the chart.

I've considered that, but Hero combat takes long enough without needing to go through that every time.

What I do as a GM is mix the order up if people have equal DEX, a different person on top each time.

Not sure how randomizing when you start increases complexity any, but if its simplicity you're after, giving everyone the same DEX and SPD is about as simple as it gets

I love how everything online turns into an impassioned argument.

Don't like the idea?

Don't use it.

So... you'd rather play GURPS.

As an author I've researched some truly dark and strange stuff that would make someone nervous to check out on my system.  what kind of poisons you can make from household equipment, rank titles for SS officers, how long you can survive cold, all kinds of things. 

Yeah, its really not worth all the work, but if you were desperate to come up with an analysis, the first thing to do is to strip away any variables involving just having different speed: that is, the stuff that's the same in just counting down from phase 12 as per the book and rolling to see when you move.

Incidentally: that system I've only used in combat that suddenly occurs.  If everyone is waiting to act then combat begins, everyone has a held phase, so I just start it at "phase 0."  I have never started at phase 12  and given a free recovery, that just seems silly.

OK I'm going to start posting more polished versions of characters with backgrounds, hopefully for people to examine and help tweak.  When art is done for them, that will be posted, too.  I want to start tomorrow and post one a day.  I really would appreciate feedback and information.

For example, Ace has a DOT effect, which is mostly a GM problem, but maybe not appropriate for a starting character in a tutorial game.

Something I've long leaned toward is that instead of a list of "everyman" skills for a campaign, characters get an 8- roll in just about any skill.  There are some very highly specialized skills like contortionist or mimicry that someone really has to have training to attempt, but almost all skills just about anyone can give a shot and have a chance at pulling off.  You don't need special training to try a criminalist roll: footprints, blood, stab wounds.  Stealth, conversation, shadowing, almost any of them you can try and might succeed if you get lucky.

Yeah I think having people roll to act ends up with some people either never moving or clustering all their movement at the end of the turn, depending on the structure.

In general, it's absolutely skewed toward the high end of the speed chart.

So what you're saying is that having a higher speed lets you move more often and gives you an advantage?  Yes.  Yes, that is true.

Around 6 is -not- 6.  You'll have to demonstrate to me that it doesn't have undue impact on lower speeds

I guess that depends on your definition of "undue."  I showed that the average roll gives the low-speed character no detriment on average.  And honestly, having a lower speed is by design supposed to be detrimental in any case.  Don't use the system if you don't like it, its just something I've found is interesting and fun.

At a group level it ceases to be 'cheap' when you factor in every player purchasing it.  6x the cost of CC adds up fairly quickly.

...well yeah, that's true for every game though, not just Hero.  Its expensive for everyone to buy golf clubs, too.

It is neat, but it still has undue and likely unfair impact on slower speed characters. 

Actually, it doesn't.  The average roll is around 6, where the speed 2 guy goes.  If its a 7, nobody but someone with outrageous speed goes, then its phase 8 where speed 3 guys go.  

I like a lot of aspects of 6th edition, but in terms of the source material and feel, I think Hero peaked at 4th edition.  I run 6th for two reasons: there's a lot of good in it and not much change in actual play, and because I write Hero supplements and want to put out the most recent edition.

People shouldn't let the cost put them off of 6th though, you can pick up a Champions Complete pretty cheap.

Do you honestly think having so many Characteristics that have to be filled in to create a character does not add to the perception that Hero System is more complicated than it needs to be?

Its possible, but Hero doesn't actually have that many characteristics as compared to other games.

For example, D&D 5th edition has

STR

DEX

CON

INT

WIS

CHA

Then there's Armor Class (with and without Dex modifiers, for touch attacks)

Hit Points

Spell attack modifier

Spell save modifier

Initiative

Speed

Attack Mods (for each weapon)

Proficiency Bonus

Passive Wisdom (perception)

Alignment

Each of these stats is referred to regularly in play, and can be modified separately through equipment and leveling.

So while the perception might be of more complication in stats for Hero, objectively, that's not really an issue.

Removing a stat from the game decreases its flexibility in design options.

I use CON a lot in heroic games, stuff like how many potions you can handle at once, avoiding being sick, that kind of thing.  Stripping a stat away seems pointless to me

2d6 for what segment the combat starts on means you don't have to break out the d12, and nobody moves on phase 1 anyway, unless they're some kind of super-speedster.

The guy that wrote that article also points out other aspects of Reeves' excellent portrayal.

Reeve’s Superman had that mixture of kindness, sadness, the weight of his responsibilities, a genuine curiosity about mankind, a love for what we can be, and a desire to be a friend to us even when all we seem to want to do is nuke each other.

I actually build this into fantasy modules I write: that trap is -1 sight perception to spot if you're looking but -4 if not, that kind of thing.  But you could just use casual PER rolls; if you make it by half, you see stuff that you aren't looking for.

I do think that Hero could do with more multimedia grade school flavored stuff to appeal to modern players.  Cards, dice, chips, tiles, stuff that is part merchandising and part goodies for players to handle like crayons and construction paper to help their apparently stunted imagination.  The advantage of kickstarter is that if you don't get the sales you hoped for, the real expense is taken care of: the up front cost (and publicity, in part).

Like they say about medicine, the second pill costs a penny, the problem is that first pill cost hundreds of millions.

No, we're just restricted to realistic super powers and mysticism. 

 

Not really sure even what that means.

Probably 2d6 works even better, really, I just like how a d12 looks

Randomizing speed takes some of the predictability and pattern of combat away, but that's usually only a problem in a really long campaign or one with lots of fights.  If you take a week or two off in between each game, its not going to be terribly repetitive.