dialNforNinja

Oh, FF VIII. My favorite entry in the series until XV!
 
Seriously. I loved VIII. I get a lot of hate for it, but eh, what are you gonna do? I liked the brooding hero, gun blades are amazing, and the heroine didn’t get popped too early. Character design was solid and what have you. ANYWAY.
 
Spells first. These are actually END batteries, not charges. “Thia, but...” No buts. It’s an END battery, defined and limited as “the most source energy of a given element I can tote at a given time,” with the default max being 100. Then you cast spells with END, all spells cost END, must draw from elemental battery (-0, as a unique campaign limitation). END is cheap, and I can boot up VIII (it’s on my iPad) and confirm that, I’m going on memory here.
 
Your second question is the one that’s interesting to me, because I did it for Persona. And to do it I probably broke a... crap load of rules, but it boiled down to making each Persona a “vehicle” that behaved like a power armor. Once a Persona is equipped, it has set abilities, it can never have more than 8 abilities, those abilities are from a defined list, etc. etc. When equipped it passes specific skills to the user, both combat and non-combat. The point is, I was able to do it for... 220? Permutations (I didn’t write them all out, I didn’t need to, but I have the framework to do so) and all of their spell variations.
 
FF, like Persona, uses a graded damage scale, but it’s not interesting, so I wound up writing two spells for every spell level, one more traditional, and one more that was more “Heroic.” It was the most fun I ever had doing a build and frankly it worked far better than I expected.
 
I don’t know if any of that gives you inspiration or helps in any way, but that’s how I managed it. I gave up thinking of them as “mechanics” and reasoned from effect; what is this, and what is it really doing? It’s a power armor for the soul, it grants stat buffs, skill boosts and a limited set of powers. Okay, I’ve got this. 

The primary difference between Only in Alternate Identity and Secret ID is access to the power.  If the character possess the power even in his secret ID, then the "Only" part is invalid.  He may not wish to use the power while in his secret ID, but he does still have it.
 
This Limitation first appeared in the days before Multiform and Shapeshift and other powers that introduced mechanics for changing forms and mapping the abilities of those forms.  Before Multiform, for example, Only in Alternate ID was a pretty common way to model someone like the Hulk, who clearly did not have his super-strength unless he was in his alternate identity.
 
That was not the only use for this Limitation, though.  Even today, it's a great way to represent Powered Armor: if the character is not in his powered armor-- his "Hero ID," then he does not have his jet boots or laser gauntlets or radar sense, etc.   Characters who bind themselves to demons to use the demon's powers, characters who make a physical change into something else (growing wings, becoming the Hulk, transforming into pure energy, etc), or even characters who have to suit up with gadgets (anything in Batman's utility belt is likely going to be "Only in Alternate ID."
 
Characters who are actually deprived of a power when they are not in their "hero mode" are the characters for whom this Limitation works best.  Characters who maintain control and use of their powers but simply do not wish to use them while in their "civilian mode" may want to consider Secret ID.  While this is not the _only_ complication of maintaining a dual identity, it is one of the many complications folded into it.
 
 
Hope that helps.

According to "Only In Alternate Identity", Vol 1, pg 386, 387,
 
"A character can only use a power with Only In Alternate Identity (“OIAID”) while he’s in an alternate identity. Obviously, only characters who maintain two distinct identities can use this Limitation. For example, it’s commonly used by superheroes who maintain a Social Complication (Secret Identity), and by characters with some types of shape-shifting or body alteration abilities. It’s most appropriate for Superheroic campaigns.

For this Limitation to be valid, the character must have some difficulty changing forms — the change must take at least a Full Phase, if not longer (during which the character can do nothing else), and/or there must be other difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing identities."
 
So, the idea of "multiple identities" is important, with 'Secret Identity' being the most common one, at least in my understanding of Superheroic games. But your mileage may vary. Either way, there must be a risk, however incidental, where the transformation poses a chance of failure, or a chance of revelation. After all, the character may not want to reveal his secret identity and hence may have to deal with a dangerous situation in his normal identity.
 
Personally, I like to use a full phase. In the case of secret identity, I find it is easy to have character 'earn' the complication when you put a lot of other people in the scene, and there are just no convenient phone booths around where s/he can change. The time it takes to find a broom closet, change, and come out again, not to mention what ever you need to do to convince the bystanders around you that you just need to touch up your hair/makeup is plenty when added to the actual change of identity. The character ignores a 'clean, unobserved change' at their own risk.
 
I also find that a turn is too much for a Champions battle, as the battle may already be concluded (or the hostages taken, or the vault looted, or the doohickey transmogrified, what have you) in a full turn. Such a large amount of time usually means the character will have missed most of the fight, in my opinion. You battles may vary.

Heyo, Spreadsheet Fan here.
 
My main thought aside from "Yay, Growth Tools!" Is that these graphs might best be suited for a Logarithmic scale. Linear scale is more useful to determine the information given how the average person thinks of such things, but Logarithmic Graphing would help show a more normal relation between height and mass.

You're getting frustrated because you're trying to just slap Trigger onto a concept without paying attention to what Trigger is for.
 
Trigger lets you activate an ability before it is used/fires.  You can lay a trap, set a healing spell that fires when your armor is breached (you take BODY), etc.  It allows the character to spend the time (and END) for an action before the action takes effect (potentially long before).  
 
If we continue with the example of a Flash that fires when a HtH attack hits, you could do this with a Trigger.  You activate the Flash along with your HtH attack (spending the END for both).  If the HtH attack fails to hit, the Flash is still there and activated (the trap has been set) -- you don't have to reactivate it during your next action/attack (or spend more END for it) - you only have to do that once it actually fires off (takes effect).  If that doesn't mimic the effect you're trying to achieve then Trigger is not the right Advantage.
 
If you'd like to have the Flash fire off as a separate attack, but only when you're using the HtH attack, you would do this with Linked.  It can't be used without the HtH attack, needs to be activated anytime you want to use it, but also is not bound to a successful hit.
 
If you're looking for something that automatically affects an opponent when they are struck, you'd be better off working with Damage Shield. If you want it to further be limited to only affecting an opponent when they are struck with a particular HtH attack (rather than anytime they are touched by your character), then you'd also take either Linked or Limited Power (again, whichever most closely matches the specifics of what you're after).

Thanks for the explanation, Duke! I can see where you're coming from with that... I think my preference would be to calculate height from the doubled mass or mass from the linear increase in height rather than specifying them separately, but I can see how that would not appeal without a calculator at hand if you're dealing with intermediate values at all.
 
The car was probably Prowl, who is actually a Datsun 280ZX, but that just means he looks like a Porsche who decided he had too much junk in the trunk and went on a diet. He was pretty much Prime's second in command as much as any kind of command structure was ever shown. At least, the only other s1/s2 characters I can think of who had light bars look nothing like a Porsche, the closest being Red Alert who is very much a Lamborghini Countach with all the angularity that entails. An actual Porsche with numbers but no light bar would probably be Jazz, resident Cool Cat, voiced by Scatman Crothers in the cartoon, and probably the worst done by as supposedly included in the first Bayformers movie. That had his alt mode looking more like Bluestreak (who despite his name is silver and black, with red bits on his robot mode,) talking all tryhard "gangsta" as a bigger hothead than most of the characters who've been named Hothead, and killed like a chump to demonstrate "Megatron's" bad ass cred. RUINED FOREVER!
 
The purple space-gun was certainly Shockwave, one of the big name Decepticons, left in charge of Cybertron while Megatron and his elites chased the escaping Autobots. His name was reused for the building-eating snake things in I htink the third Bayformers movie, but by that point I had entirely dismissed them as connecting to any other Transformers property on even the thematic level and didn't pay much attention. As for the motivations of the war, once upon a time it was just Evil Decepticons Want to Rule Everything vs. Good Autobots Want To Protect Freedom, to the point that Megatron's signature quote was "Peace though tyranny," and Optimus's was "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings," then they added Decepticons having been built as military products and Autobots as civilian merchandise but having rebelled together against the Quintessons and only later split into opposing factions, then in more recent comics they turned it into Megatron raising a rebellion against an oppressive Autobot government and then going off the extremist deep end, retconned that two or three more times, and now I have no idea. There were something like thirty more or less related Transformers continuities when I counted them up in the mid-noughties, and that number has only kept growing.

Yes, that's always the case with Linked (though it can be the Greater Power, depending on how Linked is setup). The Limitation comes from the fact that you cannot use the Linked Power without first using the Power that it is Linked to.

Also note during this that if Power B is linked to Power A and both are Attack Powers, without other Advantages applied to Power B you would pretty much have to state that you're using both before making an Attack Roll -- you don't get to make two Attack Actions.  Which brings us back to Trigger -- you're going to want to read the text for Trigger pretty carefully...and note that it does allow you to make a second Attack Roll in the same phase if necessary.  That's a pretty distinct Advantage right off the bat...and why I mentioned it as an advantage over MPA in my original response.
 
If you wanted Power B to affect anything that you touched or that touched you without having to make a separate Attack Roll, you'd be talking about a different setup (specifically Damage Shield...and all the Modifiers that entails).

Forgive the ignorance, N-B, but I don't know what any of those things (except for Optimus Prime) means.
 
I gave my (well, the GM's, but we all watched) references:  a four-hour VHS of Transformers from an era before we had a Blockbuster and had to rent movies in the same single-wide mobile home where we bought fish bait out in Gumbranch.  It seems there were like eight or so episodes on it; possibly a season?  I don't know, and at this point, the memories are too old and faded.
 
several Transformer comics that belonged to the kid brother of my GM (the kid played in a lot of our games over the years, and this Transformers thing was something he was pushing for and we finally capitulated, thinking "Sweet!  Mechs!"
 
Man where we wrong....   
 
 
Three Transformers toys we picked up at TG&Y using the "Treasury"  (which was essentially what was left after you kicked in for drinks, snacks, and periodic carpet shampooing because you got carried away with the drinks and snacks.     ).  Now the reason that even after all these years I know which one Optimus Prime is: we drew lots for the dolls when Jim moved and left pretty much everything to us.  I got the Optimus Prime (when my daughter was born, it was her teddy bear.  She didn't like the bears or the dolls, but wouldn't go to sleep without "Bus Man."  Then my son played with it when he was a toddler, so...    twenty years or so of use out of that toy?  Pretty sweet!)
 
Anyway, the other two: one looked like  a Porsche 911 but I'm remembering it having police lights on it and a racing number.  Again, these are some seriously old memories.  The third one was a pretty cool-looking robot, but it didn't turn into a car.  It was like a purple laser gun if I remember right.  Anyway, I don't remember seeing them in the movie, so I guess we chose unpopular cast members or something. 
 
 
The comics started at issue one, but it seems like there was either just over or just under a year of them.  I couldn't say which; I just remember someone commenting on the odd stopping point.  All I really remember about them was that the cover art of #1 was both horrible and horrifying, and I will probably never forget the explanation that Transformers evolved from naturally-occurring gears and sprockets from all over their home planet.  I wanted to laugh, but I just felt so bad for the people who were expected to stand behind that.....   (Remember: I wasn't really a comic book guy, and those comics were _not_ going to sell me on changing that.   
 
 
That's it.  Like I said.
 
In all that source material, we watched drivers wink in and out of existence in cartoons.  We read comics that confirmed "holographic passengers."  We folded some toys that proved beyond a specter of a doubt that a big robot will completely fill a small car.  (Unless the big robot was....  hollow....      )
 
That's what we had to work with, and outside of two movies, that's pretty much all my knowledge of Transformers.   It was certainly enough to play a campaign that lasted throughout an entire school year for Jim's kid brother.  I wish I could tell you it was a memorable campaign, but even with a plot we spent more time arguing about just why we would want to switch back and forth between cars and robots when we could just be robots and have guns all the time.
 
Oh-- and we _did_ figure out that the entire premise of Transformers is a racially-motivated war of genocide:  Transformers who could fly versus Transformers who couldn't.
 
 
 
 
Ah; sure!  I get that.  Honestly, it wasn't for used books, that's about where I'd be right now:  5 and 6e both happened during financially difficult times for my family, so I missed out on both.  I was around and excited for the build-up, but when it finally happened---   I just couldn't afford it.  It _really_ didn't help that 5e was pumping out at new book at what felt like once a week!
 
I suppose what I should have asked, bluntly, is which books are inviolable core and which books are "suggestions?"  I _didn't_ ask that, and I _won't_ ask that, because the answer has, historically, been as frustrating as it is hilarious:  Only v1 and v2 are core; all others are suggestions and neat ideas!
 
But the same people who tell you that scream bloody murder when you violate one of those "suggested neat ideas," so who knows?
 
If CC is core, then there is at least one power in v1 that isn't core, because it isn't in CC.  (No; I don't remember which one it is.  Without being disrespectful, I have little interest in 6e beyond collecting it).
 
 
 
 
 
 
That's what I came back for:
 
 
Now I really don't want to dig through all seven editions (remember there were two different 5e "editions" ), so let me just hit you with the one I know cold (2e), the one I tend to use (4e),  and then the 6e (found in v1 under "Growth.")
 
 
2e:
 
every 5 pts of Growth makes you :
 
1 meter taller
Adds 2" running (4 of 6e's inches)
adds +1 to Climbing   (okay, it says _gives_ +1, but I don't do that.  If you didn't know how to climb at 6 feet tall, why would you suddenly learn after your grown to nine feet and doubled your weight?)
+1 OCV for HtH
-1 DCV (not just for HtH)
-1 Knockback
+1 to the PER roll of anyone looking for you
x2 mass
 
 
going by square cube, something doesn't add up perfectly between "1 meter taller" and "x2 mass."  However, as you continue to grow-- say your thirty feet tall-- then you add one meter and double your mass again-- well, you start swinging the other way on the "doesn't add up scale" and aren't gaining enough size to match the mass-- but that's not the point.
 
 
You also get the following:
 
+5 to STR, BOD, PRE.
+1 PD and ED.  (These stats do not add-in for recalculating figureds)
 
 
 
4e
5 pts of Growth:
 
x2 mass
+5 STR
-1" Knockback
+1 Body, +1 Stun (again: the bonuses don't up your figureds)
 
 
Every fifteen points adds the additional stuff:
 
-2 DCV (not just for HtH)
X2 Height and Width  (and while it's not specified, I have to assume that third dimension is double as well, as is appropriate for the fact that you've "x2 mass" three times at this point-- square cube and all that).
x2 reach
 
There is the note that if you are at a "half-way" value, like 10 pts, then you can receive half the value of these bonuses / penalties.
 
Notice that the OCV bonuses to HtH went away.
 
I never looked into it, but I have always suspected that, since 4e was just corralling up all of 3e into one nice house that this was how Growth worked in 3e as well.  At any rate, I feel that this is the best take on Growth to come out of the HERO system.  There's also some brief notes about wounds that disappear and reopen as you Grow (+ BODY) and un-grow ( - BODY)
 
6e
 
First, the rules cover and impressive two full pages.
 
if you want to make any change at all, pony up 25 points.  The next step is 50 points.  Then 90.  Then 120, then 150, then 215---
 
The cost grows almost as exponentially has the character.
 
There is a massive range of possible sizes at any level-- I suppose the shortest summation of this is to say that 6e kills the granularity of Growth a _lot_.  Yes; you _can_ spend 25  points and say you're only 3 meters tall, but remember that before you could spend _five_ points and be.. well, three meters tall.
 
 
I don't know why this is---
 
And for God's sake, don't think I'm bashing the guy: writing a game is hard; dropping a habit is hard.  I am _noticing_ something, period.  If I _notice_ that someone is Lebanese, it doesn't make me a racist.  You don't have to hate to notice.  I can't dislike the guy; I've never met him.  I know three people that tell me they have, and they all say he's an extremely likable guy.  I trust all three of these people, and so I expect that he probably _is_ a pretty likable guy. But for whatever reason, he absolutely cannot _not_ bundle a bunch of extras into Growth-- that is to say, he is making assumptions that sort of push you into a special effect whether you want it or not.  In 5e, it was Growth Momentum.  In 6e, it's STR, CON, PRE, DEF, BODY, STUN, Reach, Running speed, and Knockback.
 
Sure: I understand that you can  simply declare "it doesn't make sense for my character to gain running speed for his Growth because of his special effect."  I have _no_ issue with that.  But Good God!  I just paid twenty-five stinking points to be grow one meter.  It seems like something of a rip to _not_ take all these freebies.....
 
 
Costing in 6e isn't based on getting bigger.  It's based on all the extras Steve assumes that you just get because there is no way you will pick a special effect or concept for which those freebies won't make sense.   Then there is the lack of granularity itself:  at "Colossal," I can be between 65 meters and 125 meters tall.  That's a hell of a lot of variance right there.  For 215 points!  It costs me 150 points to be 64 meters tall.  If I want to be 65 meters tall, _by the book_  (I say this because I would like to think no GM would actually tell me that I can't just be able to grow to 65 instead of stopping at 64 after that kind of points expenditure!), but _by the book_, if I want to be 65 meters tall (say I need that last little bit to reach Faye Wray's window or something), I have to spend another SEVENTY FIVE POINTS!
 
 
 
okay, I want to be 65 meters tall in 2e:  for 25 points, I spend 315 points. (double-check me; It's late, and I'm doing this in my head)  Definite improvement over that, but we already had an improvement, _and_ did away with a lot of the "gimme" that 2e had baked in.  It was 4e.
 
In 4e, being 64 meters tall cost me 75 points.  If I want to be 65, I buy one more five-point level and call it good.  80 points.
 
_not_ 215.
 
of course, there are still some baked-in extras, but nothing like 6e did.
 
And on the plus side, he did finally ditch Growth Momentum as an automatic function of Growth.
 
 
Drawbacks?  under 4e, I also gain 80 STR.  Under 2e, I gain 315 STR.  Not too shabby, I think. 
 
Personally, I'd like to see a Growth system where you "gain" only enough STR to negate the additional mass you're putting on---
 
oh, wait!  You _are_!  At least with STR.  _That's_ why it doesn't add to Figureds (probably)!  In those first two versions, you double your mass every 5 pts, and you get +5 STR.
 
This problem could be resolved by simply stating that this STR is _only_ to counteract the additional mass, but hey-- whatever works.  If you really want him to be strong enough to wrap the Golden Gate around Godzilla, go for it!
 
Me?  I would have stripped _all_ of that out of Growth and left the granularity:  You want to gain STR as you grow?  Fine.  Link some.   More PD?  More BODY?  Link some.
 
Done, and the cost and granularity remain intact.
 
 
6e, I gain 90 STR to be colossal, and could mass as much as 25.6 million kilograms.
 
I gain STR sufficient to offest 6.4 kilotons; precisely the same as 25.6 million kilograms.
 
But at Collosal, I could also mass a mere 3.3million kilograms.  I make out like a bandit if my GM declares that the balance of this STR is available to me after deducting my mass.
 
 
Sure: it's still workable, sort of, and some folks might even find it easier: pick a level and pay that much, grab up your freebies and go.
 
But given how much of Steve's work in 5, 5 er, and even in 6 itself went into tearing things into smaller and more granular bits, merging like builds more firmly into like builds, 6e Growth just doesn't feel like it fits at all.  It's more like a D&D spell that just gains buckets of power because your level went up.
 
 
 
Anyway, that's both your answer, and one man's opinion.
 
 
Good night, Folks!
 
 

 
 
 
 

On this we agree, especially the part I bolded.  I'd have them pay 1 for 1 rather than 1 for 5, but that's to be a Vehicle rather than have one.  I'm not entirely certain that a character using a Vehicle character sheet, and starting from Vehicle stats, is necessarily point balanced with a character who is a person, but in theory at least they're close enough.  
 
I think we start from the assumption that the character is a person, and go from there.  I know for a fact that I'm not hollow; I've seen my internal organs on various medical imaging devices.  If you want to define your character as hollow for zero points, you can do so, as long as it doesn't change any of the game mechanics.  You could carry someone around inside you, maybe once or twice; if you want that to be a regular thing your character does, then pay the points for it.  
 
An example I like to use: the Hulk can pick up a manhole cover in combat and throw it.  He can even do it more than once.  The third time he does so, the Avengers get a call from the city's public works department, asking if he can kindly stop throwing their manhole covers, and billing them for the costs of replacement.  At that point, the GM suggests that if he wants to carry an eight-pack of 100kg steel throwing discs around he can, as long as he pays the points for it.  
 
 
SFX aren't, and shouldn't, be a way to get additional effects for your Power for free.  Your sonic blast might crack the glass in the area, and that can be one of those extra things you do for free once or twice to stop the robbers' getaway car by shattering their windshield so they can't see.  But if it's something you want to do more often than that, add a slot in your Multipower.  

Forgive the lack of truncation, my friend, but since quotes are now folded into a window, it seemed less critical. 
 
Pregnant:  that was funny. 
 
The difference between riding superman's shoulders and being papoosed:
 
One depends on _your_ strength, with regard to being able to hang on, though the encumbrance is still on him. 
If you are being carried in a gizmo, then it's the gizmo's STR to hold on to you, but it's still Superman's encumbrance. If he has to hold on to the gizmo, then it's his STR to hold the gizmo, too. 
 
If Superman is grabbing /holding and carrying you, then it's his STR to hold on and or course, his encumbrance. 
 
At least, that's the way I see it. 
 
If the character is carrying someone on the inside, then it's his encumbrance, and I put forward the idea that it is his Body score or his DEF that determines how secure they are. 
 
Revisiting the Champs Complete ruling:
 
Does this rule exist because in spite of the unlimited number of things that you _can_ be, from microscopic super-intelligence from beyond the stars to the Ghost of Christmas yet to come, there is no place for cars? 
 
Or is it to prevent doubling-down on the 1-for-5 costing?  Personally, I have no problem with a character being a car, so long as he's paying what any other character would pay for the same abilities. 
 
 
More on pregnancy:
 
Due to the commonality of pregnancy, the average number skeletons in a human  body is always more than one..... 

As for the "turns into a car" bit, that's Growth and some extra Running with OIAID (edit: and a Shapechange for the "normal car" disguise factor) since it's only a change in degree of how the character can act, not even the basic function of what they can do. Adding a few features to specify that passengers and cargo are carried securely in car form rather than hanging off the back like a baby koala, and what is a fair way to represent those for Turbo Teen compared to Teen Wolf who's just as strong, fast, and tough in his Alternate ID but does not have genuine textured Naugahyde, Super Sport trim level bucket seats to ride in and a moon-roof to keep the rain off is the point of the question. (Presumably, Teen Wolf spent those points on some Enhanced Senses and Claws.)

As for the "turns into a car" bit, that's Growth and some extra Running with OIAID (edit: and a Shapechange for the "normal car" disguise factor) since it's only a change in degree of how the character can act, not even the basic function of what they can do. Adding a few features to specify that passengers and cargo are carried securely in car form rather than hanging off the back like a baby koala, and what is a fair way to represent those for Turbo Teen compared to Teen Wolf who's just as strong, fast, and tough in his Alternate ID but does not have genuine textured Naugahyde, Super Sport trim level bucket seats to ride in and a moon-roof to keep the rain off is the point of the question. (Presumably, Teen Wolf spent those points on some Enhanced Senses and Claws.)

Not disagreeing with what you're saying; simply seeing it going in a different direction:
 
 
At some point, this character / robot -- this Transformer-- paid for the ability to turn into a car.
 
In this campaign, how do cars work?
 
Does the GM require that cars have special powers to indicate that people can ride inside of the cars?
 
If so, fine.  Well, not fine, exactly.  Extremely nit picky and frivolous points wasting in my own opinion, but if it's his game, it's his rules.
 
However, if he _does_ not require that automobiles buy special "and people can ride in here" powers, but he _does_ require that characters who have bought the ability to be cars _also_ buy an additional power because people can ride in here, how is the original character "getting what he paid for?"  Or even not getting screwed?
 
 
And I have my own nit to pick:
 
If you seriously _must_ model seat belts and make someone build the power to install seat belts in a car,  Clinging is extremely wrong.  You want Entangle.  You can't escape Clinging with a Contortionist roll or a pen knife.
 
 
 

So that would effectively be a naked Advantage to make all of your defensive abilities apply to whatever you're carrying? I can see it, though not without the Extra Limbs (passenger seats) and possibly Clinging UBO (seat belts.) Whether to add Growth or Shrinking depends on whether you're turning into a car, an ATV, or a snowboard, naturally. Great discussion BTW, exactly what I was looking for... and exactly the debate between building everything in the finest detail and just waving a hand and saying "Y'all a car now!" that made me ask the question.

All of the nitpicking and overengineering aside, just remember that you pay for what you get, and you get what you pay for.  
 
The 10-point Protects Carried Items Adder for Resistant Protection does what it says on the tin, for Resistant Protection.  If I were the GM, I'd likely make that less of an Adder to R.P. and almost a Power of its own; and that would be what lets you wrap your R.P. around a passenger, but also your Life Support, Invisibility, Desolidification, and so on.  I'd call it "Passenger Space" and be done with it.  

Oh my goodness, I don’t know if I missed this or if I’m ready to wander off back into the desert.
 
Guys guys guys. Listen listen listen.
 
Let’s remember that the GM & the player have to reach an agreement, and I would point out that Extra Limbs is a whopping 5 points. I see this going in this weird circle where we’re comparing a flying super to a multi-former. Far as I’m concerned, if you’re paying to become a car, then there’s no reason not to assume it’s... a freaking car. Even HERO doesn’t include “seat belts” in its builds.
 
This boils down to granularity and campaign function. I really think this one is over thinking the problem into madness. Which is fine. I’m mad. You’re mad. We’re all mad, here.

I see it as, you're paying to get something more than anyone gets.  
 
SFX only go so far, and the distance they go is up to the point of something being mechanically different.  If you're Superman, you may be 100+ STR, but you're still stuck with two hands and the approximate surface area of a human-sized being.  You don't have any additional abilities to protect people, to keep them from falling off, to hold more than a few of them comfortably, etc., that any other human-sized and -shaped strong character doesn't have.  Those other things?  If you want them, you can pay points for them.  If you don't pay points for them... SFX, sure, but you also run the risk of losing your passengers if you try to Dodge an incoming attack, or make a course change at combat speeds.  
 
Edit to add:  There's a difference between riding a horse bareback, and riding one with full tack, saddle, etc.  Someone -- the rider or the steed -- can pay that, or -- depending on the genre and power level -- that can be handled as equipment for which points are not paid, but there's a mechanical difference there.  I think this difference is what the original poster is asking about.  

This is what I was getting at.  
 
Ultimately, you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get.  If you're relying on STR alone, you're not "doing it wrong" for sure, but you're not getting any more than that.  Superman with his 100+ STR can carry a lot of weight, but he only has two arms, with one hand on each, and he's the size of a human.  He can only carry so many people, and if he's carrying them he's carrying them.  Two people, maybe, can piggyback on him, but if he tries to have more than half his CV they're going to have to make rolls to hold on.  (SFX go both ways.)  
 
To the OP, decide what you want.  Do you want an armored compartment that a rider can sit inside?  Buy that.  Do you want some kind of a safety harness that holds people on, keeping them from falling off if you make hard combat maneuvers?  Buy that.  Want the harness to also potentially protect them in the event of an accident?  Buy that.  
 
If I were trying to build Car-Guy, and agonizing over how to do it, I'd be a little annoyed if Superman got exactly the same benefits as me for declaring it SFX.  
 
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to dial in to get exactly what you want.  

Extra Limbs would be another way to do it, rather than Clinging.  I'm NOT considering a Transformers approach;  more like a Goliath approach, or a transform to something like a giant horse, bird, or dragon.

Also...in the car scenario...Clinging, UBO.  Seat belts.  You're asking for "I can hold them in my transformed state" for no cost, based on saying "it's a car."  Nope.  Unless you're paying for it, it'd be more like riding in the back of a pickup truck.  Nothing to stop you from being tossed out from the bed.  So if you want them safely ensconced and protected...pay for it somehow.

Or a long bench. 
 
Or a net. 
 
Or a 5-seat passenger compartment. 
 
We have all, at one point or another, confessed to accepting that there are this outliers where simply having an appropriate special effect is an advantage, or even the solution itself. 
 
The power is STR.  The question is "how many people at once?" 
 
The special effect is "I am a car now."
 
I know I'm the odd man out with my tendency to rely more on the SFX than do a lot of other GMs, but I just don't see a conversation here outside of "what kind of car and how many people can you stuff in one of those?" 
Assuming STR is sufficient, of course. 

I would like to point out the first thing I said was, “if the vehicle is properly defined and has sufficient strength.” You’re not the odd man out, I think this is a case of “HERO being HERO” and people wanting to micro things that I would — and this is a pretty good example — merrily handwave. “You’ve got strength 100? Yeah, by all means, carry all the people you can fit on your badonkadonk.”

This is as much for me to check my understanding as it is to try and boil down concepts into a concise enough whole to be offered to others. In other words, I think this is the basics of the system rules, and tries to address each portion of the system in at least a minor way. Criticism is more than welcome, as is corrections and addendum. Not much mechanically though.

ahem


Hero System Beginnings:
 
Hello! And welcome to a fairly fun and peculiar system. Whether you intend to go out and fight the villain of the week, follow a dynamic continuous story-line to face off an arch rival, explore an unknown planet and mystic ruins, or travel between the stars with the cosmos in your hand, Hero system supports the lot of it. Some better than others, but that is beside the point! If you can think it, the system can nearly always support it. It just may look a little different than you expect!

Now, as per conventions in tabletops and theater of mind style games, the core concept is usually pretty simple. There exists evil out there, or perhaps just shades of grey and gray. You, the player, must interact in this world where evil or very strange shades of grey exist! Be it beating down bad guys, exploring new territories, schmoozing the social elite, sneaking through haunted mansions, or what have you! But in the end, regardless of what you are doing, you must be (somewhat) effective! This doesn't mean powerful, just good at what you are doing! However, Hero faces some very strange limits in regards to what it takes to be (somewhat) effective! Let's explore that, shall we?
 
Campaign Benchmarks
 
Wh-wha? We aren't talking about Character Concept first? Why aren't we-
Nope! Benchmarks my dear potential reader! Concepts for characters are in this portion, yes, but Benchmarks are what help you refine that! Characters in isolation are lovely yes, but they are like snow-globes. Pretty, good for capturing an image of a concept, but not very practical!

And what do I mean by practical now? Why that's quite simple! A Testing Character, which is what a Character is in isolation, is built with a specific sort of world, setting, or power level in mind. This, potential reader, is what is meant by benchmarks! They are broad, overarching rules usually imposed by the GM to determine how they want the characters to feel and play. Most often they are discussing the level of powers, defensive abilities, and how many points you will be building a character to!
 
These are the presiding laws for characters. Hero allows very very nearly anything to be built, but not all games can handle absolutely anything in the world. Or perhaps there is a specific level of power or theme that the GM is more comfortable with. Benchmarks are how they define and refine the experience. But most importantly, they tell you what are the limits to build to.

Build Principle: Stay Close
 
Still aren't talking about Character Concept? Come on! I've got a neat Idea and I want to see if it will work!
Why of course you do! And honestly, that's not my call! That's between you and the GM. Tell them about your concept, and then they can give you a thumbs up or down! The concept is you and the GM's court! I'm here to tell you how to try and follow within relatively normal guidelines in mechanics.

Speaking of, the Build Principle above, Stay Close! I can't seem to find where it was written, but it seems to be apt. Namely, that you want to stay close to what you can expect and what the party has! If the Party is sitting at Speed 6 and 7, you don't want something sitting somewhere at Speed 3. You're going to be out of the loop most of the time! And that's no fun for anyone, least of all you! So you, as much as the rest of the party, need to figure out what you are looking at for Speed more than anything else. Some will be faster, some slower, but everyone should try to stay within 1-2 Speed of each other.
 
Attack Type and Damage Class
 
Okay! My GM just approved my Electric Blaster! He's gonna fly, and shoot lightning, and save the day, and be all cool and awesome!
Most excellent! Now keep in mind that there shall be Villainous forces that oppose you! It's not just a rag-tag team of heroes standing in front of a back-splash! Villainous Evildoers, or Perilous Pitfalls, Ballroom Dancing, and other nefarious ills! But a fair portion of the time, you shall fight the evil! So, how do you do that?

You wanted to shoot Lightning right? Well, that is most likely an Energy Attack of some sort! Attacks and Defense are split between two, er, three forms. Physical, Energy, and Mental! The first two you will... probably be dealing with a fair bit I would say! Whether it is a man with a gun, a laser pistol, or someone coming to rough you up with fisticuffs, most of the threats you will face will probably be a Physical or Energy based Attack! Mental attacks are rarer, at least most of the time! A GM can choose to change this proportionality as they so choose! Remember that.

Damage is done in DC in this game. DC, standing for Damage Class! Simple enough, no? Without Adders, Limitations, or Advantages, nearly every Attacking Power is built to have one Damage Class per 5 Points put into it. Your GM probably has a Benchmark of what the maximum Damage Class they are comfortable running is! You'll want to stay within that limit. If you aren't certain on what Damage Class  you are doing though, there is a handy chart for figuring that out on pg 97 on the 2nd Core Rulebook
 
Health and Defense 
 
Alright then! My GM says to keep DC to 10 or less. And he said that PD/ED Should be under 40?
Well, That would make a fair bit of sense! PD and ED, standing for Physical Defense and Energy Defense respectively, are the two most basic forms of Defense. There is also Technically Mental Defense, to protect against Mental Powers, and Power Defense, that protects against other forms of attack! But, PD and ED are the two most common forms of Defense.
 
Now, before going on, you should know there is two types of health, that then require two types of Defense! STUN, which is the amount of damage you can take till you fall unconscious. And BODY, the amount of damage before you start to die! Both of these are normally bought as regular Characteristics. Unless you buy them for an alternate form or so on, they are usually pretty stable for their cap!

But back to Defense, PD and ED both work to protect against STUN damage. They are how you can stay up in a fight, and keep going! Generally speaking, you will want to have between 2 and 4 PD and ED per Damage Class you can inflict. So for example, since your GM is keeping Damage Class at a max of 10, you likely want to have 20 PD and ED, and up to a maximum as they put it, of 40. Each point of PD and ED take away 1 point of STUN damage, barring some special circumstances. So a 20 STUN attack will be ignored by 20 PD/ED.

However, the nefarious forces of evil are fond of Killing Attacks! These attacks ignore your STUN and go straight for your BODY! The Fiends! Your Normal PD and ED are no match for these attacks! To stand up to this type of assault, you need Resistant Defense! Each point of Resistant Defense, of either Energy or Physical type mind, takes off 1 point of BODY damage! 
 
Advantages
 
Resistant Defense? But... I thought you said there were only like... 5 forms of defense? That wasn't one of them!
Correct you are astute little theoretical reader stand in! Resistant Defense is secretly just PD and ED wearing a fancy coat! This coat's name? Advantage!
 
Advantages are, in short, special perks for Powers. Think of them like Power Upgrades! In this case, the Resistant Advantage! It lets whatever sort of Defense you apply it to resist BODY type damage! There are a fair few types of Advantages! Everything from being able to effect an Area, having your powers last longer than they would otherwise, taking no energy to use, and more! They, along with Limitations, let you customize your power set! Unfortunately, they are quite expensive! Each Advantage costs a multiplier of your Powers cost! So Say you have a 30pt power? If you want a +1/2 Advantage, you're gonna have to pay an extra 15 points!
 
Limitations
 
Wait, Limitations? I don't like the sound of that.
Oh come now! Limitations are nothing to be afraid of! They make your character dynamic, movable, and interesting! They give your GM toys and workarounds to provide interesting encounters! They make your character more human! They-
Electric Blaster is are an alien though
-More Alien then! They give you tools in your toolbelt to create interesting and unique powers and people! They-
No.
... They refund you points.
... Continue...
 
Alright, now that fussy is on board, Limitations! They limit your powers yes, but they also grant a refund on some of the power's cost. And this is applied after Advantages. You can have your power cost more endurance, fail to work on certain people, last a shorter amount of time, not do as much BODY damage, and more! You can even link up powers to work in tandem with them! They are tools for you and the GM. Just remember, if  you include it? It will come up.
 
Skills, Everyman and Otherwise
 
 
But, I feel you didn't like that portion. So tell me! What exactly does Electric Blaster do when he's not Heroing?
... Not heroing?
Yes, when he isn't out there, flying and shooting lightning and so on! What's his job, and his hobbies?
He... I... uh... Elect-tri... Electrician? Maybe... Likes Rock music? 
There we go! We can work with that!
 
So Both of those are types of Skills! Skills represent capabilities of your character beyond just their superhuman powers! Everything from Acting to Science to Giving Speeches to Making Gadgets to Climbing mountains to Conversational Skills to-
WAIT. I have to pay points to TALK to people? That's dumb.
Well, of course not! You can pay points to be better at talking with people, but you don't have to! Most campaigns have Everyman Skills! Skills you get at a basic level just for existing! No points needed to pay for them. Conversation is usually one of those! The exact number and type of Everyman Skills varies though.
 
But, there are more skills than just those! There's Profession Skills! Skills that your character has from working their job! Say for example, Mister Electric Man's being an Electrician! That's a Profession Skill! You don't have to worry to heavily about these most of the time though.
 
More than Profession Skills, there are Knowledge Skills! Skills you have about knowing particular things! There is a basic level of understanding that is presumed, that you don't have to pay points for, but sometimes, a Super Human needs to know a little more about the average gang, or the new Super Drug going around!
 
Complications
 
Don't worry there, we are almost done. Tell me more about Electric Blaster! Does he have any problems? 
Well... You aren't going to stop badgering me for these until you get some will you?
Nope!
Fine. He... has problems with... uh... Work? And.... he shorts out in water? That work?
Works enough for me!
 
Both of those would be what the game treats as Complications! They are problems the character has broadly speaking, that allow you to spend some extra points. Your GM likely has an amount they want you to spend on complications, just to give them some good tools. And you get points out of it! Lovely stuff. This can be everything from Villians who are hunting you, to a weakness to an element, to a romantic rival, to just not standing the sight of people being hurt!
 
Summary
In the end, where you spend your points is up to you. Some put it in powers, some put it in skills, others put it in martial arts, and some just put it into characteristics. As long as you are following what the benchmarks your GM provided are, you should be in the clear.
 
 
 

...wait.
 
What’s the question? How to carry other people at speed? it’s not fluffing it, per se, if the vehicle form is properly defined and they have sufficient strength. However, I agree with a prior post, the best, albeit weirdest way to do this, is Extra Limbs (Mama, I got seats!, -0). You can also purchase STR, only for seats, if you’re really looking for the full bucket reclining experience.

I'd just suggest using a 1D6 Transform to copy it onto some sort of physical device.  We all know how DVD players work.

Thanks, Vlad.
 
For what it's worth, I _detest_ sound bites.
 
I swear, I really believe the increase of sound bites on the news is contributing to a rise in stupidity.   😕