LoneWolf

With my hearing aids I have the equivalent to a moderate hearing loss. Even with the hearing aid it is difficult for me to hear a song on the radio. When I am in the car I cannot hear the radio at all if the volume is less than 10. For me to understand the song the volume has to be at least 15. Most people consider to be incredibly loud. One of the biggest issues with having a hearing loss is that it is difficult to deal with background noise. With my hearing aids I can usually understand people fairly well in an otherwise quite environment. But if any background noise is present, it becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish individual sounds. In a loud noisy environment, it is like a constant roar of noise where nothing can be distinguished. The other issue is distance. The further away you are from the source of the sound the harder it is to hear. If someone is right next to me, I don’t have as much trouble, but if they are any distance away it become a lot more difficult to hear the sound. What other consider close by is far away for me. The two issues are cumulative so hearing something from a distance where there is background noise is really difficult. On an island there will be a lot of background noise especially near a beach. The sound of the wind and the waves makes it difficult for someone with a hearing loss. Supposedly the reason the song of the siren affected the sailors is the music was so beautiful it entranced them. If all you hear is a low hum I don’t think the song is going to affect you. A moderate hearing loss is probably not going to offer total protection but will make it difficult to be affected by the song except at extremely close range. More often than not the target is going to spot the siren before they are close enough to be affected by the siren's song. When you have a loss of one sense your other senses do not really become more acute, what happens is you learn to use them better. My vision is not better than normal, in fact I am a bit nearsighted due to spending all my time looking at a computer screen. But I do notice things that other people seem to miss. Part of this is that I am in the habit of constantly scanning my surroundings. When out driving I often spot things before others do. Part of this is that your brain can only process so much sensory input. Since you are not getting as much sensory input form one of your senses your brain has more time to process the others.

This is something that I know about from personal experience. I have severer to profound hearing loss. I have hearing aid that allow me to function, but that does not mean my hearing even with them is normal. Hearing loss is not always all or nothing. Hearing is classified as normal hearing, mild hearing loss, moderate hearing loss, severe hearing loss, and profound hearing loss. For immunity to the song of the siren you probably only need moderate hearing loss. Moderate hearing loss is when you need to have a hearing aid to understand most conversations and sounds start blending together. With any hearing loss it gets worse the farther away you are from the sound. This is particularly true when it comes to being able to distinguish individual sounds. The farther away the sound the more difficult it will be to be able to distinguish what the sound is. Even with my hearing aids I have difficulty understanding people who are too far away. Someone with a moderate hearing loss would be able to hear some noises but may have difficulty identifying what they are. They will be able to understand a spoken language but will have some difficulty. The person speaking may have to speak loudly or even shout. In some cases, the person with the hearing loss can read lips to figure out what is being said. Even if you cannot fully read lips being able to see the other persons speak often helps. Most of the time the person with a hearing loss will have trouble pronouncing words so may be difficult to understand. This is not always the case but is pretty common. Most audiologists who have tested me are surprised at how clear my speech is. For the natives of the island, I would buy the hearing loss as Very Frequently, Slightly for 20 points. Their native language is sign language so it has less impact on them. A character from outside the island it would probably be greatly impairing instead of slightly. If an islander buys a spoken language, they should have to make perception rolls to fully understand a normal conversation as long as they can see the speaker’s lips if the speaker was within a meter or two at most. This would also mean if the siren was right next to the islander, they may be able to be affected by the song. This would represent the minimum level of hearing loss for an islander to be safe. They would probably be taking a -4 on other hearing-based perceptions rolls.

The Hero System already has a bad reputation as being too complex and involving too much math. This makes it even worse and if adopted would probably end up driving the majority of the people play it away. Most people can add up 3d6 in their head fairly quickly and easily. Doing that with 3d30 is a lot harder and will slow down the game considerably. If people have had a few drinks it is going to be even worse. This is exactly the opposite way the game needs to move. If anything it would be better to simplify the game instead of making it more complex. The only problem with trying to make it simpler is that doing so would probably end up destroying what makes the Hero System a great game. I don’t doubt your math or that your suggestion does what you say it does. What I object to is your objective. This would be fine in a computer game but has no place in a tabletop game.

I understand what unified power is and it fits with what I am trying to do. The KS and SC skills are a database of information the character can access. When the computer is disrupted (the extra INT drained) it creates problems for any other skill or power the brain provides. Pretty much you drain the INT and most of the computer enhancement no longer works. Thanks for the explanation.

I was building a character with a computer brain and was putting the unified power on everything the computer brain granted. The book states this limitation can be put on any game element. The computer brain grants the character various skills including KS and SC. Since it can be put on any game element I tried putting it on the skill enhancers. The idea would be it reduces the cost of the skill enhancer and the skills purchased in the skill enhancer. When I did that it reduced the skill enhancer properly, but it reduced the actual skill too much. I was purchasing the skill based on INT which is normally 3 points, which would be reduced to 2 points before the limitation. The cost after the limitation would be 1.6 which should round up to 2 points, but Hero Designer lists it as 1 point. When I apply the limitation outside the skill enhancer it calculates correctly. I am only seeing this when the cost 3 points but I only checked a couple of other values. I checked and it does the same thing with other limitations. This is probably not going to come up very often but thought it might be something that needs to be looked at.

While greater height can mean greater strength that is not always the case. I am a lot taller than my brother in-law, but he does a lot more physical work than me. When we moved to a new hose he was able to move stuff a lot easier than I could. If you think just because you are taller you are stronger than someone who engages in hard physical labor you are mistaken. Historically the average height has gone up because of better nutrition and medical care, but that does not translate into stronger people. Obesity has also dramatically increased from the past. The average modern man is probably weaker than the average man in the past. The modern athlete on the other hand is probably a lot stronger than those in the past.

There is also a Talent in Fantasy Hero for turning undead. It is just extra PRE vs undead, the talent also has an extension of the normal PRE attack chart where if you roll high enough the undead start taking damage. For this to work all undead take the complication.

As duke pointed out the purpose behind all frameworks is to save points. If you object to elemental control because they just save points, you should disallow all frameworks and the unified power limitation. The way elemental controls were in earlier editions did not have any real drawback, but that changed in latter editions. Having all powers in the framework drained when any power in the framework is drained is a legitimate drawback. The Idea behind all frameworks is to allow the player to create certain types of characters. While elemental controls and unified powers allow you to purchase more powers, they also make it easier for the character to purchase all the powers and abilities the special effect should have. This can really reinforce the idea of paying for everything the character can do including rarely used power. As a GM have qualms about being incredibly hard ass on what a character can do. You want your precog to be able to figure out what people are going to do in combat buy the skill tactics with the unified power limitation on it or you don’t have it. You want your electricity-based character to create magnetic fields buy change environment. Don't complain to me you cannot afford it that is why you are saving points on the other powers.

15m flight with megascle cost 30 points. I can buy 20m of flight with a x8 NC for the same 30 points. Having more meters in flight gives you more maneuverability in combat. You don’t need increase the NC that much to get a reasonable NC speed. Megascale will always be better for covering long distance, but a higher base movement gives you better option in combat. If I am spending more points the speeds scale up appropriately. At 60 points I can get 30M or megascale flight, or 45 at x16 NC, or 50M at x8. The megascale flight will allow me to reach anywhere in the world in minutes, the 45M will probably get you across the US in about 20 minutes, where the 50M with x8 will take about twice that. The extra 20M gives a big advantage in combat. Someone who wanted more maneuverability in combat would be better off with the 50M with the x8 NC multiplier. They would still be able to reach most local location quickly. If the campaign is based around a single city or even a small state that should be good enough.

With normal flight and a higher NC multiple you have better combat maneuverability. Megascale is an advantage so a higher base cost increases the cost more. At low meters of movement Megascale is fairly cheap, but at a higher value it cost more. Also megascale is an advantage so increases the END cost where NC move does not. If all you want to do is get from one location to another megascale is the better way. If you want to have superior maneuverability in combat, but still be able to get from one location to another fairly quickly increasing the NC multiple works fairly well. You could of course put the movement in a multipower but that means you end up spending more points because you have to buy both the pool and the slots.

The must pass through intervening space is mainly about escaping barriers like walls and entangles. With normal teleport things like walls, or even being in a completely sealed environment does not matter. It is for things like stopping time and walking to the new location and restarting time. Under 6th edition rules the character using megascale can define the scale anywhere from 1m = 1m to the maximum distance he purchased. Anything above 1m = 1m is considered megascale. The book states that 1.1m = 1m would still be considered megascale. That makes it clear you do not have to use the minimum of 1m = 1KM. You can even change the scale from phase to phase. The problem with teleport is all the movement takes place in a single phase so that option is not really valid for teleport.

The must pass through intervening space would prevent you from using it to escape places you cannot leave. That would include bared jail cell or room with a closed door and closed windows. If you can escape confinement that is not airtight it is more a special effect, or you can reduce the limitation to a -0.

Personally I don’t have a problem with characters saving points for having a tight concept. The Idea behind Unified Power is that the all the powers are actually part of a single power that can be applied in multiple ways. It can allows a character to purchase powers they should have, but might otherwise skip because they cannot afford them. Like anything else it can be abused, but that does not mean it has no place in the game. As long as the powers fit the special effect it is not a problem. The problem comes when the special effect is so vague that anything can be put in it. Unified power with the special effect of flame is fine, but unified power with the special effect of super powers is not going to cut it.

One thing to keep in mind is that Unified Power is only a -1/4 limitation. This is about the same value as the power not working in an uncommon circumstance. So even if drains are fairly rare that is still an appropriate value. Considering how effect drains are even if the Unified Power limitation is being used, there should be a fair amount of them in most campaigns. For 60 points I can have a 6d6 drain that will reduce a characteristic by 21 points. If the drain targets INT or EGO that will reduce most characters to a 0 unless they have power defense or have an extremely high score. Either one of those drains means the character has less than a 40% chance of being able to act.

I have to agree that this does not seem like a good idea. This looks like a solution in search of a problem. The Hero system is already complex enough without adding more granularity. One of the biggest complaints people have about the Hero System is the math is to complex. This makes that situation even worse. All this is going to do is to slow down the game to a point you are going have to have a computer to play the game. That is going to turn off a huge amount of players and make it unlikely anyone is going to want to play the game. This is a bad idea that does nothing to improve the game.

One the big complaint on 6th edition is that they eliminated the elemental control framework and replaced it with the unified power limitation. On the surface this seem like a straight downgrade that makes the character more expensive in 6th edition. But since the limitation can be put on all game elements including characteristics and frameworks, it seems like this could actually save you a lot more points than the previous elemental control. Now, there are downsides to doing so, but it seems to me you end up getting more out of this than you would with an elemental control. It is suggested that the GM might want to limit the power to about the same active cost, but that is not an actual rule. If this is not implemented, it would allow for even more benefit. This would allow you to create a character that has lower powered benefits to the main power. For example, I was working on character whose main power was precognition and put the limitation on a couple of skills like deduction and tactics to simulate his ability to see into the future. He did not figure out what you were planning to do he simply knew what you were going to do. I wanted to get others feedback on this and see what other people thoughts are on this.

The way I look at it most package deals are for players who are having trouble creating their character from scratch. Racial package deals are the main exception to this. Those are more about defining what abilities a particular race has in the campaign. Package deals are mainly to get the player started and to make sure they have the basic things the concept usually needs.

The way the group I game with handles stats is that any characteristic gained from a racial template increases both the stat and the maximum. Basically, we treat them as a power rather than a characteristic. If you use Hero Designer and put the added the racial adjustments under powers instead of characteristics, you are not charged double when you go over the normal maximum. This allows a little more variance in characteristics. With this each race has the same spread for characteristics, but still has some differences. A strong Orc is going to be stronger than a strong human. Unfortunately, you cannot set the characteristics to negative in the power section of Hero Designer. You can lower the characteristic under the characteristic tab and also manually adjust the Maximum on the Campaign Rules. Since it is extremely rare for a character to exceed a lowered maximum, this is probably not a big deal. Maybe if Simon sees this, he could add an option to lower characteristics in the powers section. That would make it easier to create racial templates.

In games like D&D and Pathfinder your characteristics are more important at early levels, but after you start gaining levels their impact on the game diminishes and your class abilities start to make more difference. For example, in pathfinder if I have a first level elven wizard with and 18 STR vs a fighter with a 10 STR the elven wizard will probably defeat the fighter. The +4 to hit and damage from STR gives the wizard the advantage. But as the characters gain levels the wizard quickly falls behind. By 4th level the fighter has gained enough BAB and feats and extra HP that the odds are now with the fighter. With Fantasy Hero characters start out stronger than other games, but don’t progress as quickly. Starting Fantasy Hero characters are closer to mid-level characters than starting characters in other systems. The other thing to consider is how the stats define the character. In other games any character can usually use any weapon they know how no matter what their STR score is. In Pathfinder for example I can have a 10 STR and use a bastard sword. I may not get the bonus to hit and damage, but I can use the sword. In Fantasy Hero weapons have STR min you need to meet or you take penalties to hit. To use a bastard sword in Fantasy Hero requires a 13 STR if used in two hands or a 15 STR if used in one hand. If you are playing in an earlier edition the higher base damage allows you to achieve a higher max damage. Prior to 6th edition damage for KA was capped at twice the base damage. This is recommended in 6th edition Fantasy Hero as well. Your 10 STR character in Fantasy Hero would be limited to using a short sword and doing 2d6 damage with skill level and martial arts. Your 15 STR character could use a bastard sword one handed and do a max damage of 3d6. If you have a 17 STR you could use a greatsword for 2d6 damage and max damage of 4d6. An extra die or two may not seem significant but in the Hero system it is really is. The other thing you are not factoring is that the Hero System has a lot more stats than the D20 based games. In those you have 6 stats; in Hero you have about 20 depending on the edition. When you look at all the stats you are going to get a lot more variance than if you are only considering a few. DCV is going to be a lot more important to the lightly armored warrior than the one in full plate and shield. Many heavily armored warriors favor blocking over dodging so don’t need the same level of DCV as the light warrior. To them OCV is more important. As to the balance Fantasy Hero is better balanced than most other systems. By design a point-based system is all about balance. You pretty much pay for everything you can do.

I don’t have FHC but from what I can see the stats in it are different than the other books. Both the Fantasy Hero book and the rule book have a short spear listed as +0 OCV doing 1d6+1 damage with a normal stun multiple and a STR minimum of 10. A long spear has a -1 OCV does 2d6 damage with a normal stun multiple and a 13 STR min. The long spear is also listed as a 2H weapon. The STR min for the long spear is 14 in the Fantasy Hero book. The long spear is also listed as a EL weapon in the rules book, but not in Fantasy Hero. That gives the one from the rule book a 3m reach instead of 2. I can see a 10+ foot spear having a -1 OCV. The problem seems that the stats for the same thing are different depending on the source.

My copy of Fantasy Hero 6th edition shows both the short and medium spear as being one handed weapons that can be thrown. The short spear has a STR min of 10 and a medium has a 12 STR min. The Long spear is a two-handed weapon with a STR min of 14. The average STR in a Fantasy Hero game is probably going to be higher than 8. In a world where hard physical labor is more common the average STR will probably be higher. The 8 STR is more for a modern world where we have devices that does not require a great deal of STR. Driving a car with power steering does not require much muscle, but working on a farm without mechanical devices requires quite a bit of muscle power.

Most important subjects tend to have multiple gods for that subject. There seems to be more gods of war than the sun. Greek mythology has at least 2 gods of war. One may be a goddess, but the point is there are more than one.

There are lots of circus stereotypes that could make decent characters. The strongman who actually has low end superhuman strength, the hypnotist with some mental powers, the stage magician, and acrobat immediately come to mind. Early American folk hero would also be a good fit for this type of campaign. Things like Davy Crockett, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill and John Henry could serve as inspiration.

Then every character will have knowledge and science skills. What about a character with Inventor or mechanics? Do they also get a VPP? How about a character with lots of social skills do they get minor mental powers? Does buying paramedics give you healing? Does animal handler give you mind control vs animals? Background skill cost less than other skill because they are not supposed to have a large effect on the game. Doing this makes them more valuable than full skills. A small VPP is not really that expensive and can easily be afforded by a champion’s character. I can see allowing the character to create items once in a while, but if it is something they do regularly they should pay points for it. A 20-point VPP with the limitations only changes between adventures (-1) and OAF cost 13 points. Characters should get what they pay for, but they should also pay for what they get.

Creating an incredibly knowledgeable character in the Hero System is dirt cheap. For 21 point I can have a character with an 18 INT and 5 13 or less background skills (science or knowledge skills). That also gives me a 13 or less perceptions roll. Any INT skill I purchase also starts at 13 or less. Since you already paid for the skill enhancer each additional background skill only costs you 2 points. Almost all characters except NPC’s seem to end up buying up their INT to 13, which means you are only paying 18 more points. Paying 18 points for +1 to all INT based skills (including perception) and getting a small VPP is too good to pass up. If the skills alone get you the ability to do this any intelligent player is likely to do this. Now the game has turned into scientists and scholars instead of western champions. This post is also in the Champions forum. In a Champions game the character purchases all their abilities. If the gunslinger has to purchase his six shooters, the schoolteacher should pay for the ability to create useful items. If this were a heroic game it might be different, but then it should take a significant amount of time to create anything.