Sveta8

8 minutes ago, Thia Halmades said:

You have a GLB who’s throwing a “banshee like wail” into a crowd that strips STUN (and possibly blinds/deafens) the target/group. Here’s the critical point I want to address; your first concept is the one with the most concrete rules, I just don’t think you have the familiarity to get to it. It is a Flash Attack, which has a defined number of dice; you can also do it as Darkness if you want it to really wreck someone. Then you add your Area of Effect and sprinkle in some limitations et voila! Champagne.

This is, in effect, the core concept of the attack. You have hit the nail on the head, so to speak. And as you have addressed above, I will attempt to once more clarify intent. A shriek or wail or howl of some sort, made over an area, to stun or stagger those there, and prevent hearing successfully. Disorientation is a plus. 

I have all but decided to treat it as something with a Linked Flash Attack. Darkness too could work, but as that is bought per radius and as a Constant power at that, it makes less sense, as the Attack so to speak is intended as an instantaneous action. The stunning effect is simply where I get a little lost, as, as you put it, there seem to be a multitude of different ways to do it.

Apologies for referring to a condition in the negative however. I tend to wind up looking at a situation and finding myself trying to compare which of the options feels least appropriate, and working up from there. In this very situation, I have been offered the options of Mind Control, Energy Blast, Change Environments, Presence Attack, and Drain, as each has a method for handling a "Stunning" effect in different manners. Lacking experience, I can't tell which would be most appropriate, so I have to go with what feels least appropriate. Ala, working in reverse.

However, you put forth an Energy Blast, which I had not yet considered. Looking back over it, I'm not exactly certain why. It is not applying a specific condition, but is working to stagger the foe by taking away STUN. It's simple, but succinct. 

The Change Environment version is an amusing concept I must admit, but If anything that feels as much a portion of after effects than anything else. Should it seem appropriate later, including it as a Linked power may work, but I find it unlikely for more Point based reasons than anything else. 

The resulting end would be something along the lines of...
Sonic Screech: Xd6 Blast, Area of Effect: Radius/Cone (+1), Incantations (-1/4), No Range (-1/2), STUN Only (-0), Unified Power (-1/4), Jointly Linked: Greater (-1/4), Power Link (-0?)
Deafening Roar: Xd6 Hearing Flash, Area of Effect: Radius/Cone (+1), Incantations (-1/4), No Range (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4), Jointly Linked: Lesser (-1/2), Power Link (-0?)

That... is workable I believe.

Ah, there is an Introduction page. Useful. Was wondering if there was one!

Greetings! I've been playing Tabletops since, oh, right around 2004. Puts me as a newcomer to most compared here! Experiences have been mixed between systems, but I've played D&D 3.5, 4, and 5. Shadowrun 4e and 6e. Old World of Darkness, mundane, and New World of Darkness Mundane and Demon. 

Hero was a system I looked into not because I was interested at first, but because I heard of it's granularity, where it breaks everything down very well. If nothing else, it would give me an understanding of some of the the other systems out there! And lo, it does. Very well. Enough so that I, someone who has never picked up a comic in my life, nor have I camped out or waited with baited breath for the latest blockbuster hero movie, nor with an experience in the camp of the past, wanted to figure out how to play, and find people to share that with. 

It should be known, I am new to this genera! Both the concepts, and tropes, and systems, and so on. Until about two weeks ago, I didn't know this system existed. I am... excited for it though. It feels like I'm sifting through the dregs and sands at the end of an hourglass, but that does not mean there are not people there. Heck, despite my comparative youth, I am more than familiar with this from the old telnet clients for communications that hold a near and dear place to me.

In short, hello! I may ask stupid questions. I am more likely than not, not being sarcastic. Apologies! May the day find you well.

Beach

Fjord 

Can't speak to crits.

Mirror? Eh, Three approaches to that. The first is the one listed up above. The lack of light does not bounce, and thus, they can't see around corners with a mirror via dark vision. End of Discussion.

Or, they can see around the corner, because you are ruling that as a visual ability, it follows the same rules for normal sight. Thus, they can see with darkvision around a corner with a mirror.

Or my favorite, The first with consequences. They can't see around the corner with a mirror, because the mirror reflects light that is picked up by the eyes. That's not what Darkvision is seeing though, thus, it doesn't reflect for them to see around with it.
BUT, I'd allow the player to purchase what functions as a Mirror for Darkvision, and not work for regular sight. It is obvious Darkvision is picking up something that lets them see, and most people can't see it.  So, have something special to reflect that something and use it as a Dark Mirror. 

Hi, welcome. You're new, I'm new, but I can give this advice from running prior Point based games like Shadowrun.

Patchnotes. Generally an unpleasant thing, but actually super handy if handled correctly. More often than not, someone in my games ended up buying a skill/power set in Shadowrun that while innocuous, ended up providing truly ludicrous bonus's and allowed it to achieve disastrous results. One that forever sticks in my mind was a combination of Echolocation and a Tacnet. If one party member can hear it, they all can. And if they can hear it, they can see it. And if they can see it, the Sniper will shoot it.

You likely won't have this issue. But, you likely will have someone end up purchasing something that they felt was nice, felt appropriate, and broke how effective they were in total. Be upfront that you are new, and that you may make some critical error when considering edge cases, or even potentially general case scenarios. Or, as I had more often than not, two useful abilities that combine to produce horrific results.

If these come up, speak with the player reasonably. One of the things I have noticed and adore in Hero for patches like this, is Lockout. It nearly always prevents some stacking effect from running away from you, and it gives the player some points back if you have to apply it after the fact. Most certainly, let them re-invest their points if they wish, because the intended goal from that power/gear/purchase didn't work, but if they still want to keep it, apply Lockout with the other offending Ability, let them snag those point rebate, and spend it elsewhere.

Those above are pretty well right in how to treat found gear though. If the player wants GM Insurance against it, buy it with points. If they don't, let them find it, or develop it, or come across it as you so choose. Heck, if you really wanted to be Mathmatical, could treat it as Variable Power Pool with a restricted point redistribution, that the points can only be reallocated when the VPP, which in this case is the gear, is not available. Can only change it when you don't have one and all.  
 

Dilination between gear and magic need not exist, by the by. You can purchase with gold Armor and Swords yes. But also potions and scrolls and faulty wands and so on. Magic that can wear out, be consumed, and fade away. Just like Spells can be purchased with points to attain mystic powers, well. Martial Arts can be purchased to "Have" improved martial abilities. Powerful spells and mystic artifacts can be found and used up, or bought and kept. Just remember which was which.

Shirt

9 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Mind Control.

 

It's the overarching power that can do all of this.

While my initial want is to avoid Mind Effecting powers, I will try to consider this and look at it in that light. My main concern comes from the fact that this would cause the imposing nature of appearance to have no effect. Rather, just how much you bump up the (now 'psychic') scream's effect would be how much it impacts. I could in theory attach it to a Presence Attack, but you seem to indicate it should all be done in one, so I shall write it as such.

I'd be looking for it to be a Physical Action that impacts a Mental Effect, so Alternate Combat Value (OCV instead of OMCV +1/4). It would still have the Vocal Range effect (Area of Effect: Radius +1, No Range -1/2, Incantation -1/4). This still relies on them being in their Monsterous form. (Unified Power -1/4, Only in Alternate Identity -1/4). It's effect is limited to what feels appropriate for a Fearful power, as they can't scream and you run off to go do housework. (Fear Effect -1/4|-1/2) They should not Scare themselves (Personal Immunity +1/4) This isn't a Mental Invisible Control, but a Physical Scream. It's Obvious. (-1/2)

Given that I am aiming for a Damage Class equivalent of 8 or 9, That would be... 90 or 101 Active Points, 30|28 or 34|31 Points. Expensive, but wraps it all up in a solid single power. Which is... to be honest? Very good. It just requires a bit more GM Fiat to figure out exactly how they should react.

Well... If I look at it in terms of the Recording device, I'd probably build it not as recording the memories that the Telepath is "seeing," but rather, that Telepath's Memories of those events. The main question that I haven't seen asked is... How many memories can be recorded at a time? Is it a single Record Tape that overwrites itself, or can they record an infinite number of separate memory Tapes? I wrote this up presuming One Re-working Tape.

Clairsentience: Visual Group (20pt), Auditory Group (10pt), Mobile (5pt) Retrocognition (20pt), OAF (-1), Retrocognition Only (-1), Limited Power:Fixed Target (-1/4), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4)

Total: 55 Active, 12 Real. 

What that power reads as, is the Mentalist can record their own memory of someone else's memory, to the quality that they remember it, one memory at a time, and only one memory can be recorded, and anyone can use the Focus to "watch" this memory. This does not let you Read other people's Mind. That will take a Mind Reading Power. That's the easiest way I could figure it.

Edit: Realized I was considering Senses wrong, tweaked the Power slightly.

Why not?
Well, while it would not be a hard sell at first, were I the GM, I'd allow it on the condition it may be revoked in the future. While that is true for all powers and builds and so on, it is something I would want to make clear. Because otherwise, there is not a whole lot about that puts forth a method to reliably deny an opponent a portion of their turn. True, this may function as a once per battle mechanic (what with Presence Attacks being encouraged to diminish in effectiveness each time used on the same foe,) but if it ends up being a Win Button sort of situation... Well, one need only press the Win Button once in a battle after all.

As I find myself working to build this power in the shoes of a player, It is something that while I would enjoy, feels like it is for a higher power campaign than the one I"m stepping into at this time. Simply stating the PRE+10 Effect of causing them to only have a Half Phase is more than enough if it lasts a few Phases. Not to mention, I don't know how much PRE this GM gives their foes. I might be accidentally preying on a massive weakness, or butting up against an inscrutable wall. So for now, I may mention it as an idea, but not bank any aim on it as of yet.

Considering how the Duration extention would directly link with Points put into it though, I would probably suggest if you do want to include it, have it be in tiers. Double the duration of PRE = attacks for an Adder, but for PRE + 10, that's a 1/4 Advantage. Pre +20? 1/2. Each one granting the ability of the ones below as well, but yeah. That's me thought.

Ah. Almost. It isn't listed as an Adder, but as a bonus for beating your intended Presence Threshold by +5. For that to take place though, it dictates it as needing for the player to declare beforehand what level of the Roll they are aiming for. Whether it is PRE +10 and you managed to get PRE +25, then it inflicts the PRE +10 Effect for longer.

Handy, but not a broad use Adder.

I would say that I was not aware Extending the duration was a 5pt adder! Granted, finding specific information for PRE Attacks is weirdly hard. If you could point me in the direction of where you found that, I would be very thankful!

But I would also say that is very much What I was looking for. I had pretty well resolved to follow that line of thought, but the was struggling to figure out how to make it stick.

They seem to be out for themselves, so frame it in that way. If they want to leave the city, and don't have some Nope-Out power like a massively improved Teleportation or similar, they need to make it so the Army isn't dealing with a Shoot-on-Sight approach because of the barbarians.

Their power will go out. Their water will dry up. Someone may come in and try to raid them. Make it personal for why they want to fix that issue. And if they start to fix that, then some unfortunate survivors may want to get in on that. Offering what help they can. 

Perhaps Cults are recruiting in the area. Or are trying to establish where they have set up in the mortuary as part of their area of control. Contention can build there. If that is noticed by other cults, they may come in to try and Hire the Party to push in or take out their rival cult for them. Payment in whatever you feel appropriate. 

They aren't dogooders, and they are out for themselves. That means you have to bring the problem to them, and make it why they should want to do it. That's my first impression at least.

I have never really known a world that didn't have 9/11. I was only five at the time. But... It has shaped the cultural mindset in a lot of curious ways. As a people, were are taught and shown, and indoctrinated really to fight Terror. Not a foe you can hit with a sword or a gun or beat up as superheros can. But... The intangible ineffable concept of there being those out there who wish you harm. Real or imagined.

Some of my friends latched onto that hard, and now will staunchly defend every militant action and every dubious prospect in the name of stomping out Terror. Some have fallen away from it, falling into disuse and disrepair as they know their every effort is going to fight a foe made of dust and words, ideas and ideals. Many more have wound up dispassionate and disinterested, because they see this futility and just shrug and go what even is the point? It's left marks. As much as 9/11 impacted the world, so too did the response. 

Pardon for belated replys, had life things to do.

As for if they have to be screaming the whole time, I had originally considered it as a lingering effect, fading away as time progresses. Just like how a single point source of sound can cause a ringing in your ears after it ends, but it fades away. And, while the concept of them continuing to scream or cause that sort of stunning effect sounds amusing, it is also a bit more than I intend.

From the glance over Stunning in AGP I feel it is both very close to what I am looking for but too... broad so to speak? Trying to find the correct way to state it. Ah. It feels too encompassing and all or Nothing. It results in Opponents either fumbling to move and hardly able to defend themselves and eating up their next Segment, or they continue on their merry way. 

Looking at it in a mechanical lens, I am trying to in essence, do 3 things in this action. Yes that will likely make it expensive, or a layered effect. I am aware.

1.  Cause the Opponent into failing to act effectively. This is the most mechanically important portion. A Penalty to their Action Economy of sorts. Trying to deprive a Half Phase Action, Ala Presence Attack +10, is the aim for that. Stunning Change Environment also does this well.
2.  Causing the Opponent to be disconnected or Isolated. This is the Sense effecting portion. Hearing specifically, due to thematics. Maximum I'm looking for here is just a turn or two of effect, likely Flash or Darkness or similar.
3. Prevent the Opponent from gathering their bearings. Whether it is forgetting where they are going, slowing down their movement, or .

The end goal is easy to understand in theory. Big Monster moves around the corner, and screams. Opponent, one of the people whom is being screamed at, should in effect feel hapless to some degree. Here is a Great Big Monster and you find yourself hardly able to shoot back at it. Running feels and may very well be useless, as your mind scrambles to try and figure out what to do, where to go, and in doing so... misses out on where may be best to go, and just goes with the first instinct, if they even run. And worse yet, you can't hear. The instructions you were getting are cut off. You can watch people's lips move, see them pointing and directing, but you just... can't hear it. Can't make sense of it. You can't fight it. You can't run from it. You feel lost and alone.

The goal is to make the opponent feel Hopeless.


Taking a look mechanically... It looks like I am aiming for buying some extra Presence with the Voice Range Area modifier, potentially Costs END to use, and For Presence Attacks Only Limitation. Linked to this would be a Flash with the same Area Modifier, Linked Power Limitation and probably have it on an Explosion Limitation, so that it fades out the further away they are.

The third effect... I can see that being done by a Mind Control, but having an Area based Mind control with the intent to just make them lose track of where they are and where to go feels like using a God-Slaying sword to cut cake. I might be able to use a Mental Change Environment effect to cause the effect, but I'm not certain how that would work. Using Transform, Person into Person who doesn't know where they are, also runs into the Mind Control Problem.
 

Myself? No, but I do have a friend who I can borrow that from. I'll have to check it out! Vocal range... facinating.

As for building it as a Drain... that could work too! Hadn't considered it like that. Instead of applying a penalty to what they currently have, just flat out taking away the ability to act... Hum. I'll have to think on that.

Decay

Hello there! I'll get down to the meat of the question.

I'm currently working on a basic sort of stunning power. The goal is for an overwhelming being to let out a horrific screech to cause the enemy to falter in their tracts. Now, I've come across a few ways to do this and am curious on ya'lls takes on them. More specifically, as last time people grumbled for me asking which of a set of options was right... What of these powers would you not want to see at your table? Either for abuse, or thematic, or just that you don't like it.

Firstly, is the one with the least... ruling for it. Treat it as either a Radius or cone based Flash attack against both Hearing and Touch. A scream so strong it sends shakes through your bones! Now, neither of these are targeting senses normally, and thus, it really is up to the GM how effective this ability might end up being. But, that is the first option.

Secondly, is a Presence Attack. Presence specifically bought with the Area of Effect Advantage, likely Cone, that effects those in the area. There are already descriptions for how differing levels of successes may effect opponents, Large creatures naturally get some extra Presence that's paid for, and it effects things properly! Heck, if the points allow, could try to have either the Presence attack, or the Above Flash be set to Trigger off one another.  My problem with this one however... is action economy. Presence Attacks don't... really have a cost there, and I don't want to have an ability that could be seen rife with abuse.

Thirdly, is a Area of effect... Psychic Entangle! Likely low Defense on it as well as Body, but it is a very very solid way to prevent the foes from going anywhere, stopping them in their tracks and functionally restraining them for just a moment. Can even throw on the Adder of Stops a Sense group so that they can't hear while it's lingering. My concern with this option is simply that it feels furthest from the intent of the power. It is a (mental) force that stops them. I don't so much want to stop them, as simply hinder them deeply. It's like... I want to attack there sense of balance.

But, options I am missing, ones that are generally disliked... Feel free to inform or rant as you see fit.

The mechanical answer is that I managed to get the crucial bits in place, and find I had 5 points left over, and not enough health to feel truly comfortable. So, popping that in DCV may prevent one or two attacks from hitting, which more than makes up for it.

The thematic answer is that they are a bit more focused on not trying to hit hit than they are trying to grab and throw you around. 

Fecal

Fetal 

Aaaah! I see. And... I can halfway see what they mean by that.

I think it's trying to attach all those Penalty's and Bonus's to the attack. IE: An attack that has an inherit negative for those values. Penalty Skill Values are trying to remove negatives added onto an attack. So, while it is a negative, it's part of the maneuver. I can jive with that.

Granted, I can still simply buy Combat Skill Levels for those Maneuvers instead, thus allowing me to offset, but not negate, the penalty. It may be only 1pt difference for each CV level, but it is notable. Especially as the 3pt DCV could also be used for OCV, or other skills... Which means if I adjust the skill levels around, regardless of whatever move I am using, I can only individually designate an OCV penalty as being "Offset" with the 2pt OCV Skill level! So that the DCV modifier will always have some level of adjustment, displayed on Martial Maneuvers! So if I'm spending it to get rid of a DCV penalty, I am having it draw away from the ability to help OCV, promoting smart play choices. Smart.

Really wonky way to do that, but I think  I get it. Will have to clear with the GM if I should work to change those or not then.

Mead

5 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Penalty levels to offset Martial Arts? Were you replacing martial maneuvers with skills?

Neither I think? Pardon, I'm not quite certain what you mean.

Given that Martial Grab has -1OCV/-1DCV to baseline, I figured I could snag a Penalty Skill level for it individually to try to zero that out. Given that that is a specific singular action that has a penalty associated with it, and I could not find indication that I couldn't apply a Penalty Skill Level to it, I presumed it would be alright. About the only questionable uncertainty I have for it is if the Penalty Skill Level for DCV would apply while actually Grabbing the foe, as that gives a 1/2 DCV. 

Is there something else that should be done to try and replicate this effect? Or am I attempting to perform something that shouldn't be done?

Moat