SleepyDrug

Re: Well, I finished reading Conquerors, Killers and Crooks, and...

I just prefer the idea that magic is separate from science. Otherwise, super-science and magic would not be a clash of special effects. It's just very weak to, essentially, say that all super-human powers are magic. If that is the case, why wouldn't magic be a universal SFX? Aid to Any Magical Power could then affect any power in the world.

This is actually a bizzare paradigm shift. Marvel has no universal power source. DC does have the source, but no one draws on it directly, and it does not effect technology of any type. Hero Alliance had no universal power source. I never read enough, but I don't think Image uses one.

I love the HERO gaming system. But there are some real quirks with the setting. Character books filled with good characters that don't seem to be balanced against the suggested "standard" power levels. Why exactly does Cardshark contain itself to Hudson City? Cardshark is the perfect model for a crime organization to operate nation-wide in a world that has arms dealers like the Warlord and drug dealers like Viper. On that note, why does Viper deal in petty crime? And why does magic control all other powers?

This is all solved with a simple tweak to the setting. Just like Shapeshift and Damage Shield, the book is written in ink not stone. Change it.

Re: Shapeshifting

Why is everyone disgruntled with Shapeshift so bent on elimenating it? Why not just switch back to something closer to the 4th edition shapeshift? Why should I buy a host of powers to replace one power that functions perfectly if i just ignore the "sense-affecting power" element of the description.

Re: Shapeshifting

People do seem to get wrapped up in the name...Shape Shift does make a fine "instant change" power, as well as a fine diguise spell and a number of other things I don't usually think of as Shape Shifting. Like all the sensory powers (and a huge number of other things in Hero), it has a misleading name.

 

I think, in the Big Arguments thread, someone states that the only purposes of changing one's shape were to gain new abilities based on the new shape, and to alter your perception profile. I think that doesn't quite go far enough..."altering your perception profile" inlcudes two obvious things: Not Looking Like Yourself, and Looking Like Something Else. All the other little changes in perception profile are used as SFX for other powers.

Sounds great. Except that there are abilities one CAN gain from shapeshift that justify it. If one wants to fool perception there is Images, Invisibility, and Mental Illusions.

Shape Shift has more in common with Extra Limbs, Duplication, Desolidification, Growth, or Shrinking. It is a body alteration power.

Shape Shift could be used to: turn one's fingers into lockpicks, fooling fingerprint scanners, fit through odd shaped openings (yes, shapeshift). All of which require actual, physical transformation and canNOT be duplicated by another power.

Desolid for elongation is one of the silliest power builds ever. It should be stretching or shapeshift to fit through tiny cracks.

Re: Does your Team have a Charter?

Damn, beat me to it.

 

He's right, the PCs can barely agree out of combat. It would take forever to get them agree on a charter.

 

John

Agreeing would be easier if the character's interacted out of combat more. i'd suggest a charter, but no one would let me pass a by-law permitting sanctioning of high power threats or Patriot's brother

Re: Does your Team have a Charter?

We barely have teamwork....the charter will wait

Re: Well, I finished reading Conquerors, Killers and Crooks, and...

I really enjoy my HERO sourcebooks and supplements; after I finish my Champions collection, I'll move on to Star HERO, and then after that, on to Fantasy HERO.

 

--I also ordered VIPER, as well as Arcane Adversaries; I'm on a VERY serious villain-binge right now NB

Me too. But I want many of my old 4th ed. villains updated and reinserted. Unfortunately, I lack, personally, some of the forementioned 4th ed books for the aforementioned villains. But Power Crusher, Rainbow Archer, the Zodiac, Force, Chasm, Hammerhead...just off the top of my head

Re: Well, I finished reading Conquerors, Killers and Crooks, and...

Is anyone here familiar with the game Torg? In it there was a set of metaphysical and cosmological rules called Axioms that defined the limits of reality in any one section. They defined the maximum devolopment of Magic, Social development, Religion, and Technology.

Each piece of reality (called a Cosm) had additional Laws that colored the behavior of the Axiom rules. An example of this is the Nile Empire, and it's a perfect parallel for this discussion.

heh. I met the writer of the game Torg. i'll refrain from further comment as I have nothing nice to say about the man.

The Nile Empire had a Tech level roughly equal to 1933 Earth, but had a Law providing for Weird Science. Weird Science permitted short term leaps way beyond the Tech limit for the world. It was not actual technology, although it had the trappings (e.g Van de Graf generators, bunsen burners, beakers, etc.), and without that Weird Science Law, wouldn't function at all.

 

This sounds like the Super-Tech you're talking about.

But it is absurd. The CU is supposed to be a comic book universe. No comic book universe has magic vulnerable/dependent tech.

Re: Is this a good idea?: Killing heroes

I had a villain set off a nuke (in Detroit, ironically) because the players decided to laugh off her reputation for never bluffing and try gangpiling her instead of being clever.

Re: Shapeshifting

No, Multi-Form is a way to do a metamorph. And VPP: Multi-Form only has got to be highly illegal.

But Shapeshift is shapeshift. And there is no logical reason for shapeshift to be sense-based. It has far more in common with duplication, multi-form, and extra limbs than invisibility.

Re: Favorite Rules of "X"

I use basic benchmarks in place of the "rule of X"

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

Is this a 5th edition conversion for the 4th edition EE?

Re: What graphic novels should I get?

If you have no graphic novels at all....

Watchmen (DC)

Kingdom Come (DC)

Squadron Supreme (Marvel)

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Well' date=' that's open to debate. Holocaust is extremely powerful. I just used him against my group of seven standard heroes(as part of Champions Battlegrounds) and he trounced them easily. Not only does he have powerful energy blasts, but he has high defenses and Damage Reduction. He also has a combination of high REC, SPD, and energy absorption that makes him very difficult to take down. He may be listed as a grade B Master Villain, but I think that's due to MO, not power level. If anything, Holocaust spends more points on powers/abilities relative to his actual point total than other "Master Villain" types.[/quote']

 

Agreed. But he is far more defeatable than Dr Destroyer or Takofanes. He makes a perfect beginning master villain or alternative to those two maniacs.

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Which villains are you referring to? The high-end master villains? You're right' date=' but they're clearly not intended to fight starting 350-pt characters. That's what guys like the Ultimates, PSI, Zig Zag, Morningstar, Ogre, Esper, Herculan, Foxbat, Leech and Stormfront are for.[/quote']

 

Villains in general.

 

The standard power level for PC's is a 350 point character with 40 - 80 AP powers, with an average of 10d6 attacks and an average of 20 points of defense.

 

Esper, Ogre, Herculan, Stormfront, and Morningstar or the Ultimates would slaughter a character with 20 points of defense.

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

HERO doesn't actually balance its villains for what it considers the standard campaign. you need 14 Damage Classes and 35 pt Defenses against most villains as written up

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Holocaust is also up there and Zorran could be with just a slight upping or some good tactics

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Also, someone like Destroyer is a good foil in terms of the PC's stopping his plans but never quite defeating him.

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Gravitar does want to conquer the world. But she is new to the endeavor and has little besides her personal power to accomplish this with (no bases, agents, etc). As do Dr Destroyer, Istvatha V'han, Menton, Takofanes, and Zorran. The Warlord doesn't but he is still a world class threat. Mechanon & Holocaust wants to conquer earth as well.

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Mostly, a matter of teamwork. The Ultimates would have more team cohesion and efficacy than an impromptu team, and thus, would probably be more effective.

 

However, I'm uncertain whether I'd rank them even collectively as a master "villain"', due to a lack of a coherent goal.

To me master villain ranking is more goal focused than anything else. It represents being in charge and devising plots (which is why Firewing isn't on the list but makes a top ten threat listing). My major crime lords are considered master villains.

It is also a matter of personal power as well as goal. The Ultimate's lack a coherent goal. But they also lack the pure power level of someone like Dr Destroyer or Takofanes. DD has 40/40 defenses and 50% damage reduction, he does 150 AP attacks. Takofanes has 25/25 and 75% reduction with 120 to 150 AP attacks.

The Ultimates average 23/23 Defenses and 70 AP attacks. Even with five of them they are far easier to defeat because they are easier to effect. My 12d6 EB will put down Binder. It won't even scratch DD.

Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks

Ah, yes, forgot about him. Definitely counts.

 

For no particular reason at all, my classification system:

 

-Megavillains: the baddest of the bad. Their very existence threatens the world. This category includes Dr Destroyer and Takofanes

 

-Master villains ( capital "M" ): a tier down. Not capable of single handedly conquering the world. . . probably. OTOH, major threat to nations. Includes Menton, Gravitar

 

-master villains ( small "m" ): everybody capable of functioning as a central figure of villainy who doesn't rank in the upper categories; major threats/powers within a city level. Includes people ranging from Holocaust on down to city crimelords.

 

Points on which I haven't yet decided:

 

-Dimensional lords and other powerful mystic entities. I'm inclined to put all dimensional conquerors in the Megavillain category, on grounds of logistics if nothing else. However, the cutoff is unclear.

 

-Teams. Do they count as groups, or as the leader??

 

-Organizations. Same question as above.

What is the difference between the Ultimates and an impromptu team of "solo villains"?

Thus my ranking is:

Omega-Villains (world shakers / mega villains)

Master Villains

master villains

Teams & Organizations

Solo Villains

Re: Effect of Super-Tech on Society?

Mostly I don't, but that's because I have strict limits that I place on Supertech. Spend six months working for any military contractor in the US and then try to take Viper / Argent / Destroyer seriously. If you want to build a giant robot, it's not enough to have the plans for a working giant robot; you need the tools, the alloys, the infrastructure, the basic research, the tools to make the tools, the staff, the support staff, the funding, etc, etc. The Giant Robot Viper just used to rob a bank would cost more to build and maintain than it could possibly be used to steal, and hiding all of that activity from Law Enforcement would be impossible. Every step you take to make that kind of goofiness work in your game world ("They have huge factories hidden in the Artic Circle and staffed entirely by vo-tech drop outs!") just makes it harder to look at as anything but a pure genre convention, in which case you might as well hand wave it.

Good Point. I've never liked the Viper as organized crime angle. In my world, Viper is a private terrorist army. They have vast cash reserves generated from their (original) and now current corporate sponsors and dummy corporations. They also are supported by various governments (some willing and some not quite so willing). But they do enough "crimes" to have forced organized crime to adapt. Thus the standard mobs and drug cartels are largely replaced by stepped up groups such as Cardshark (active in both DC and CU campaigns) and similiar crime groups that use mercenary super-villains to supplement their normal criminal agents. This is where GRAB and like groups come into play.

Re: Invalid Disads: should disads not be worth more than if bought it as a 'neg' powe

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Disads are already worth less than their point values. This can easily be proven because the vast majority of characters take as many disads as they can get away with. If in the players' minds disads exactly equaled their point value, then there would be a vast spectrum of disads taken. You'd get characters with 200+50, 200+75, 200+100, etc. Instead, what actually happens is that virtually everyone is 200+150. And that's because players perceive the 150 to be a good deal.

 

What allowing a cheapo disad does, is to simply make the discount explicit.

Either I did not follow this or do not agree. Everyone takes the 200+150 because that allows them 350 points. If you take 200+100 you have a 300 point character. And in my experience, few players forego Character Points just because of a perceived value to the Disadvantages.

On the issue of overlap. I don't mind so long as the disadvantages don't duplicate effect. A character can have multiple Disads on the same WEAKNESS if they result in different LIMITATIONS.

For example, Enraged by Orcs and Hatred of Orcs don't have much variety. But -- Berserks When Fighting Orcs and Psych Hatred of Orcs could be a valid combo if the character might encounter Orcs outside of combat conditions.

Re: Effect of Super-Tech on Society?

It varies by the type of tech. I try to keep it subtle. And expensive. The ability to make affordable super-tech is (in my world) usually tied to individuals who enter the Superhuman World (and don't share tech secrets) such as Dr Destroyer, Mechanon, Defender

Re: Build Champions Elite Superteam

Just power up the champions

 

Bricks get +40str +15 pd +15 ed, spd +1, +4 HTH levels

 

100pts

 

same thing for other types.

 

A 250pt cyclops could have 20d6 eyebeams, and +10OCV levels.

 

The Hulk is a high end character but i dont think he is 750pts

No, But the Hulk is nothing but power with all his skills built into his Multi-Form. The most powerful heroes in the Avengers, X-Men and Defenders are all easily 600-800 points. Consider:

Avengers: Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Sersi, Quasar

X-Men: Iceman, Storm, Phoenix (either one), Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Sage

Defenders: Silver Surfer, Dr Strange

Re: Build Champions Elite Superteam

In my world, the elite JLA/Avengers style team is the Champions. I just re-wrote them and added a few members. Each person is 500-800 pts depending on the concept. This fits because both the JLA & Avengers have members that would *never* be 700 points (Wasp, Ant-Man, Green Arrow II).

The line-up is:

Victor -- a superman type brick; capable of anything

Defender -- power armor

Patriot -- martial artist & weapons master

Nighthawk -- martial artist (batman type)

Phantasm -- desolid & martial arts

Prodigy -- expert at everything

Hercules -- the greek legend

Ironclad -- alien of living metal

Firehawk -- living inferno

Troll -- from the algernon files

Sapphire -- celebrity energy projector

Witchcraft -- mystic

This is my first time posting a character, so be kind to the fomatting:

VICTOR

Carl Freeland

Char val adj cost notes

STR: 70 60 23-, 14d6, 400 tons

DEX: 18 24 13-, 6 CV

CON: 40 60 17-

BOD: 28 36

INT: 15 5 12-

EGO: 25 30 14-, 8 ECV

PRE: 28 18 15-, 6d6

COM: 20 5

PD: 30 16 30 / 30r; hard; 50% dr

ED: 30 22 30 / 30r; hard; 50% dr

PrD: 27 ---

SPD: 4 12 3, 6, 9, 12

REC: 22 ---

END: 80 ---

STN: 85 2

PER: 14-

Run: 6†/ 12â€

Leap: 14†/ 28â€

Swim: 2†/ 4â€

Fly: 16†/ 256†(743 mph)

Tireless: Half End for 70 STR (+ ½) (35)

Super Speed: +6 Lightning Reflexes, Costs End (- ½) (9) [1]

Flight: 16â€, x16 Noncombat, Usable Underwater (+ ¼), Half End (+ ¼) (70) [3]

Flight: 1 Light Year per Year FTL (10)

Invulnerable: Hardened for 30 pd / 30 ed (15)

Invulnerable: 30 pd / 30 ed Damage Resistance, Hardened (+ ¼) (37)

Indestructible: 50% Physical & Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant (60)

Immortal: Life Support – Self Contained, Nonpersistent (- ¼) (8)

Immortal: Life Support – No Need to Eat/Sleep, Safe in Vacuum, Heat, Cold, Radiation, High Pressure, Ageless, Terrestrial Diseases, Terrestrial Poisons (34)

Unmovable: -5†Knockback Resistance (10)

Unmovable: -10†Knockback Resistance, Costs End (- ½), Half DCV Concentration (- ¼) (20/11) [2]

Unstoppable: 10 pt Lack of Weakness (10)

Unstoppable: 5 pt Power Defense (5)

Acute Senses: +2 Enhanced Perception (6) {added in}

Telescopic Vision: +12 vs Penalties for Sight Group (18)

Microscopic Vision: x1000 for Sight Group (15)

UV Vision: (5)

Telescopic Hearing: +8 vs Penalties for Hear Group (12)

Radio Hearing: (8)

Ultrasonic Hearing: (3)

Always Victorious: 6d6 Aid to Physical Powers/Char, All Related Powers (+ 2), 12- Act Roll (- ¾) (180/55) [18]

Combat Training: CSL: +2 w/ hand-to-hand (10)

Skills:

Bureaucratics 15- 3

Computers 12- 3

Concealment 12- 3

Conversation 15- 3

Electronics 12- 3

High Society 15- 3

KS: Geography 12- 2

KS: History 12- 2

KS: New York City 12- 2

KS: Politics 12- 2

KS: Superhuman Affairs 12- 2

L: German fluent 2

L: Russian fluent 2

L: Spanish fluent 2

Mechanics 12- 3

Oratory 15- 3

Paramedics 12- 3

Persuasion 12- 3

PS: Investor 11- 2

Stealth 13- 3

Survival – Temporate, Arctic, Tropical 12- 6

Systems Operation 12- 3

Tactics 12- 3

Talents & Perks:

Scholar 3

Wealthy – 2 million or less per year 7

Disadvantages

DNPC

Samantha Freeland – daughter (Occ, Norm) 15

Hunted by

Dark Seraph (Occ, As Power) 10

Maligont (Freq, As Power, NCI) 20

Taurus & Zodiac (Occ, More Power) 15

Victor Rogues Gallery (Freq, As Power) 15

Mechanon (Occ, As Power) 0

Physical Limitations

Enhanced Physiology Requires Special Medical Care (Infreq, Greatly) 10

Physiological Limitations

Code Against Killing (Common, Total) 20

Heroically Stupid (Common, Strong) 15

Honesty (Very Common, Total) 25

Reputation

World’s Greatest Hero (14-, Extreme) 20

Social Limitations

Secret Id (Freq, Severe) 20

Vulnerablity to

Sight/Hearing Flashes (x 1 ½, Common Group) 10

Magic (x2 Stun, Uncommon) 10

Magic (x2 Body, Uncommon) 10

No one is entirely sure of Victor's origin. He is the first hero of the modern heroic age; appearing on the scene in the late 1970's. He has been the mainstay of the superhero community and is a founding member of the Champions (with Nighthawk, Patriot, and Defender).

Victor is unquestionably the most powerful hero in the world, often displaying bursts of unimaginable power when needed (always victorious). He seems to be able to survive virtually anything.