SleepyDrug

Re: Centennial City setting

 

Can you give us more to work on....what sort of help?

Re: Requesting help in finding source material

 

Greetings all,

I recently picked up the RIFTS China World Book, mainly because it was loaded with descriptions of an assortment of Chinese goblins and demons. Having looked it over, I'd love to try and add these guys to THE HERO SYSTEM ASIAN BESTIARY, but I'd like to look at some non-gaming sources in order to do it. Does anyone know of any books (in English) that detail the various demons and goblins of Chinese myth? Especially the inhabitants of the various hells and the like. Obscure sources are fine, as I live near both the University of Maryland (College Park) and the Library of Congress.

 

If you want, I can give a list of the various demons and goblins I am looking at if that will help.

 

Hey, newly in the Baltimore area. Are you looking for actually books of mythology? or just any source?

Re: Champions Universe Question

 

yup. i'm who you think i am

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

First, Ghost Angel. Thanks for a well-thought out discussion on this topic.

 

1) It seems that way, but when you look at Multipower it actually allows you to have all the available powers. Including ones not techincally allowed inside a VPP itself.

 

I assume you mean Multi-Form here. However, the rules do say that the GM should make exceptions for any power that fits the special FX of a VPP. So this argument is moot.

 

2) I place MetaRules in the same bucket as MetaGaming ... I dislike them both.

 

The MetaRules exist to prevent MetaGaming. Btw, I consider VPP: Multiform only to *be* MetaGaming. Because the primary reason seems to be to save points by circumnavigating the rules of the power.

 

3) Mutliform can have several different special effects in and of itself. It can be used to simulate many many different powers as well (Multiform Battlesuits for example).

 

true.

 

I will add VPP: Multiform Only is not only a very dangerous thing, but should be closely watched for abuse.

 

Also, any powers you've bought outside that VPP disappear when you activate that Multiform, so unless that's your ONLY power (BeastBoy from Teen Titans for example) you will not be utilizing all your other purchased powers all the time.

 

I agree with this. Which is why I am inclined to disallow it.

Re: What Published CU Characters Would You Love To Have Your Character(s) Fight?

 

I was thinking that Cybermind and Brainchild would be an interesting duo. Behind the scenes super-villain assistance to criminals.

Re: Influencing NPC's

 

or you could make it more difficult using the Presence Attack modifiers. For example, -1 penalty for every 5 points of EGO/PRE over 10 (using whichever stat is higher or more relevent).

 

Persuading a bored clerk (PRE 10, EGO 10) requires a straight Persuasion roll.

 

Persuading a stubborn newspaper editor (PRE 18, EGO 15) could have a -2 penalty. (for the 18 PRE)

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

JayH is right. The Multi-Form only VPP is to allow an unlimited number of Multi-Forms and avoid the point cost extra forms.

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

Then why do you have to be Shapeshift vs various Senses and not just a ShapeShift Power?

 

Exactly, I think Shapeshift should be as it was in 4th ed. When you actually did change shape. Otherwise, why not dump Shapeshift and just use Images?

 

Yes, place Muliform inside a VPP.

 

VPP; "MultiForm Only" (generally agreed upon that it's a -1/4 Limitation, as it's limitations are similar to that of a 'magic' SFX limitations)

 

Multiform is a Standard Power, which is legally allowed inside a VPP.

 

I won't disagree that an EC with Shapeshift, DI, Growth, Shrinking and a VPP for specialized power would also work. There's always more than one way. Some are just easier than others.

 

It just seems wrong to me to buy a VPP for *one* power and be able to continually alter it. Basically, your not using the VPP to simulate a vast array of powers but to circumnavigate a limit placed on the power in the rules (i.e. a limited number of multi-forms).

 

The Meta-Rules (FREd pg 348) says that if there are two equally valid ways to construct a power, the more expensive method is the correct option to use. Thus, the EC & VPP method I proposed is more valid than the VPP for one power only.

 

Also, VPP's (pg 209) are to allow the character to "create any power or and power with a given special effect." The clear implication is that it is intended for multiple powers. Not to give one power a by around it's inherent rules.

Re: Champions Universe Question

 

Thanks.

 

What I was thinking of was an equivalent to the indexes of heroes and villains in the Free Stuff category. Not descriptions, but an index of the published companies.

Is there a list anywhere of the companies mentioned to exist in the CU?

 

I know Viper has a couple fronts, and Bio-Investigations Ltd (from Shrinker's origin), what else do we have?

Re: Master List of Distinctive Features

 

I'd consider "Out of Place" to be the result of a variety of things

 

NY Accent

French

Southerner

 

et. al.

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

The reason I say Shapeshift is a Sense affecting power is because you buy it versus various Senses.

 

Shapeshift vs Sight Group Sense means you Look different, but if someone touches you or uses sonar to detect you then it fails. In order to use Shapeshift to *become* something else you should conceivably buy it versus all Senses: Sight, Hearing, Touch, Smell/Taste and maybe even Mental if you want mentalists to believe your're a house cat.

 

This is the problem. That is *not* true. If I have Shapeshift (only to turn my skin blue) then my skin is blue. The pigmentation really changed. It does *not* fail because someone touches me.

 

The point of Shapeshift *is* to become something else. Extra Limbs lets me have an extra arm for 5 points. But if I want Shapeshift to grow Extra Limbs or other physical changes as desired then I must pay 25 points plus 2 END a phase?!?

 

Shapeshift into a cat as a sense-effecting power is essentially an illusion (Images).

 

Shapeshift also does not allow you to alter your Size/Mass. If you're a human (100kg, 2m) and want to Shapeshift into a house cate (5kg, .25m or something like that...) you MUST buy Shrinking linked to it (otherwise you're one LARGE house cat). If you want to grow bigger then you need Growth, and possibly Density Increase.

 

True, which is the primary balancing factor. Shape-shift needs adders (cellular, imitation) or other powers (growth, density increase, shrinking, hka, enhanced senses, etc) to gain truely unusual forms.

 

With Multiform you don't worry about ANY of that. You simply buy Multiform to the max point level you could need, stick it in a VPP and now you can become all sorts of things and all you need is to slightly modify a lot of already made animals (the Beastiary is pretty much a Must Buy for this kind of power, it'll save you hours of time). As for the Disads, keep the Psychological ones the same, the Hunteds stay the same, pretty much everything, and you could even get a few more for Limited Manipulation, Quasi-Animal Mind/Instinct, Size, etc... (though to lesser values, possibly half as much, since things like Limited Manipulation aren't as limiting when you can shift back to human form)

 

Maybe you lost me here. Are you suggesting a Multi-Form IN a VPP so you can shift the VPP for an unlimited number of Multi-Forms?? Sounds illegal to me. More proper would be an EC with Shapeshift, DI, Growth, Shrinking and then a VPP for form specific powers.

 

Shapeshift is good for disguise powers, minor ploymorph type powers and the like. Unlike Multiform if you Shapeshift into an Elephant you need to link all the powers you'd use to make an Elephant to the Shapeshift: Knockback Resistance, Extra Limb(trunk), Tusks(hka's),STR, CON, BODY, etc... all with a "Linked:Shapeshift" Limitation, in which case you are now getting expensive, especially if you want many forms.

 

If you want more out of it, I strongly suggest Multiform with either a large number of forms or in a VPP: Multiform Only - I believe the standard limitation for that is -1/4 on the control cost. If you make it "Multiform to Standard Animal Only" I'd be inclined to go up to -1 depending on the campaign, "Multiform to Any Animal" might be worth -1/2, that's all on the GM to decide how limiting that particular VPP might be.

 

Shapeshift alone is a minor polymorph type power. For a true metamorph, use a VPP or an EC and VPP.

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

The problem is' date=' the actual rules treat it otherwise, in order to cover the full range of possible effects that might cause someone to look differently than their true form, all the way from magical disguises (shape shift to one or only a few shapes) all the way through full, actual changes of shape. To borrow DnD concepts a bit, in HERO, different levels/degrees of the same power (Shapeshift) are used to describe a wide range of spells, from the fairly limited (Change Self) to those producing full body change (Polymorph).[/quote']

 

Except thats not right because duplicating Polymorph or being a metamorph requires more than the shapeshift power. Shapeshift allows someone to change their physical appearance and possibly mimic the Extra Limbs power. Unlike Inivisibility, Shapeshift does include a physical change. If I shapeshift to look like a chair, I really AM a chair.

 

The actual rules in fifth addition are treating an apple like an orange (if you'll parden the analogy).

Re: How to: Shapeshift

 

For a metamorph, VPP is the way to go.

 

Raising stats is then a none-issue if you have room in the pool.

Lowering stats could be a Limitation (Stats cannot be higher than form mimiced)

 

Multi-Form limits the number of forms they can assume.

 

As for Shape-Shift. I don't agree with the "sense-affecting power" analogy. It seems closer to Extra-Limbs/Growth/Density Increase. It isn't just a sense affecting power, you really alter your shape.

Ok, here's the drill. I'm fooling around with back-up characters because my GM is an evil, viscious person in combat. (And if you're reading this i mean that as the best, kindest compliment).

 

One idea is a mentalist. Coming along fine.

Another idea is a martial artist. The issues are thus: straight damage attacks are in acceptable ranges. But speciality martial manuevers are not falling where i'd like.

 

In particular, nerve strike and choke hold are difficult to raise beyond 2d6. Why?

 

Damage Classes are not usuable for a limited range of manuevers. Meaning I can't skip the extra DC for strikes and have them for NND's.

 

Weapons don't add to NND damage.

 

Created Manuevers can't be bought past 2d6 NND damage.

 

Solutions sans rule breaking?

Re: Foci

 

Well, none of the other Avengers except maybe Cap could even *lift* Thor's hammer, so I'm not worried there. Few (if any, barring Cap) of the non-superhuman ones can even draw Hawkeye's bow, and of those who can, none of them are going to hit with a damn with it. Iron Man's armor would be useful to most, but then, IM is one of those guys probably built more than OIHID than Focus, anyhow, so it wouldn't apply.

 

Me personally, I don't have a problem with characters having extras immediately on hand for things small enough to easily carry a couple (guns or knives or such), and assuming the item in question is not unique (Mjolnir is pretty unique, though there are Thunderstrike's weapon and Beta Ray Bill's). Extra set of armor are back at the HQ or whatever, though.

 

Thor's hammer is not universal; yet Cap, Beta Ray, and Thunderstrike all could use it.

 

We've seen Quicksilver use Hawkeye's bow.

 

At least 8 people have used Iron Man's armor over time besides tony. Really early on it was nearly stolen by spies who made use of parts.

 

Numerous people have used Cap's shield defensively.

Re: Foriegn Captain America's

 

It's a call for the super lists page

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2864/Super_Lists.html

Re: The 3 sense groups rule

 

Sight and Sound are the obvious first two. Mental Group powers (telepathy and such) are in their own category.

 

Other powers is an SFX call.

 

Psionic (telekinesis): mental group

Fire/Heat: (touch) heat; you can feel the heat of a fire without seeing or hearing it.

 

EM band energies: radio group

 

Magic based: magic group (yes, there can be more groups)

 

Shape-Shifting: touch

Re: Published Character List

 

Glad you liked the list. I posted hoping some people could get some use out of it.

 

My list only went up through 4th Ed., and in the books I didn't find any list establishing exactly which characters, besides Black Claw (deceased in 5th) and Gremlin, were full-time members. That's why Black Diamond appears with The Raiders, since I was using her there as muscle.

 

I think GRAB was first officially laid out as a team in 5th Ed.

 

Classic Enemies includes Black Claw, Black Diamond, and Gremlin as members i 4th ed.

Re: Published Character List

 

The List is great!!!

 

one question: could you list the members of GRAB as a team? or are they too informal to rate grouping together?

Re: Caffeine Addiction

 

Dependence, very common substance, addiction, -1 to int penalty (lowest setting)

 

something like that. if it costs more than 5 pts, it didn't come out right.

Re: Crime and Punishment

 

Originally Posted by SleepyDrug

It is wrong for heroes (who are individuals) to kill, but the government is another story.

 

I sincerely do not want to derail an interesting thread, but this is an assertion I with which I disagree most strongly. It is as wrong for one person to silence millions as it is for millions to silence one.

 

Power is not authority.

 

I won't pursue this, and I will preemptively agree to disagree with anyone who would like to argue about it. But I did want to make clear that SleepyDrug's assertion is not a universally agreed-upon truth, even in a universe where people fly and fire energy beams from their jewelry.

 

Actually, it is. People may debate the circumstances that due process justify killing; but no one would really argue that the government has the right to kill. It is a perk that comes with being a "sovereign" body.

 

If this position were untrue, then the government would not have the legal right to authorize the military to kill, or to authorize a police officer to kill.

 

When we argue about the death penalty, rules of engagement, and other such issues. We're discussing whether proper justification and due process was used in the killing.

 

Unless the police in your campaign world never kill.

 

To stay on topic, the complexity of punishment with supers is that no punishment will restrain/punish all supers. Someone's powers will disrupt things sooner or later.

Re: Supernatural beings in the Champs Universe

 

They exist. Nearly everything exists. Not necessarily as you might expect, but usually with classic elements.

Re: Crime and Punishment

 

There are several threads going on about killing the bad guys. This morning I was reading issue #3 of DC's "Identity Crisis". Without giving away a whole lot, I'll just say that some of DC's greatest may have been playing with the minds of criminals.

 

We've pretty much touched on Murder for "the cause", so perhaps there are other methods that we might suggest for curtailing criminals who will commit again.

 

The difficulty of punishing super-criminals is one of the attractions of the setting. It presents unique ethical and practical problems, and often insures repeat appearances of your bad guys.

 

Some general thoughts...

• Reprogramming. Is it appropriate to play with the minds of criminals or is that an invasion that is unforgivable? What if said villain knows your Secret ID or your DNPCs?
  

 
I'd say this is equivalent of murder. And raises the issues of the permanence or lack there of in the criminal's reprogramming, how to handle psionics or other strong willed villains. I'd say it is an interesting idea, but in America a drastic violation of personal liberty (and the 5th amendment right to be secure in body).
 

Life in Solitary.
Time with Hard Labor.

 
I doubt i'd want to take super-powered crooks out on a chain gang or give them enough freedom of movement for hard labor. But solitary or confinement to cell for term of sentince is possible.
 
I agree with Nexus' statement about draconian measurements rather than simple "power suppression". Anyone read "Streets of Poison" in Captain America where they show Bullseye's cell?
 

Is there any form of punishment which might actually act as a deterrant in your universe, or living with life and death every day, are villains just that unreachable?

 
What about power neutralization? electronic monitoring for life? life imprisonment? or the death penalty?
 
It is wrong for heroes (who are individuals) to kill, but the government is another story.
 

What are the prisons like in your game? The Phantom Zone (Superman)? The Kyln (Thanos)? The Big House (She-Hulk)? Stronghold (Champions)?

Of course feel free to add to the questions. I think it's a pretty darn interesting aspect of the game.

 

I generally model after Stronghold or Marvel's Vault.

Re: Independant Powers

 

As I understand it...Independent was designed for Heroic Level campaigns. If you have a concern about this, remove the Independent limit. They're villains...they don't need to worry about point cost.