Herolover

yes please

I have the new Fantasy Hero book so will comment. The actual weapons list included are your expected fair. You have a bunch of bows, swords, etc. Really, nothing to write home about, just what you would expect in a Fantasy game. The same goes for armor. I am not going to comment on weapon damage or the actual weapon right ups. I will leave that for someone else, but IMO I haven't had a problem with anything of that nature yet. What the new book does do: # talks about making up new weapons # gives a size chart so you can figure out how much damage that fairy with a diminutive sword does # gives examples on how to make different weapons act differently. Let me explain. Picks for example can, at the GM’s option, be made armor piercing. I really like this rule because all of a sudden there are a lot of good reasons to use weapons other than a sword. # For armor talks about how different materials effect the weight and DEF. # Talks about “Fine†and “Poor†weapons and gives many examples of the attributes that make a weapon “fine†or “poor.†Really good part of book and I am using this. For example, in my world the best bow and arrow makers are elves so elven arrows are a +1 OCV and rated as “fine arrows.†Basically, it is pretty much what you would expect. The actual weapon list, though extensive, doesn’t cover every possible weapon and it is left to the GM to come up with more of the exotic weapons.

Re: On the Shelves in VA First, I hope you read it and then come back and give us your opinion. I have the feeling after you read it you will think better of the book. Second, I think HERO choose to do their releases in the correct order. HERO will alway be Champions (I don't like it, but it is a fact) and they wanted to wait and make sure they got Fantasy Hero right. Being as the book said the most popular you had better get it right the first time. Third, I cannot possibly believe anyone would complain about the cost of Fantasy Hero. Yes, it is expensive, but what other gaming company is selling books of this size for less than $60.00. I just bought the new Babylon 5 RPG for $45.00. Yes it is hardback and yes it is in color, but far far fewer information which is why I buy RPG's. For content and durabiltiy HERO books are among the best priced items in the industry.

I am also considering taking your stance and just getting rid of it. Would make it much easier. Have to do some more thinking....

This is a very tough question to answer and will vary from GM to GM I think. There are basically 3 ways this can be seen. DNPC, Follower, and bought with money. I have a Fantasy Hero campaign going and in it I have a character that has used money to buy the equivalent to a “masterwork†warhorse and a guard dog so I am going to use it as my example. 1) DNPC. If the player had bought the horse as a DNPC I would not make them spend money to purchase a horse. It is part of their character. The horse would still be a horse and, if bought with very useful skills, would have some extra abilities that normal horses don’t. However, I as GM, would make it difficult for the player to be able to use the horse in normal situations. The horse would be getting lost a lot, would require great upkeep, keep being stole, that kind of thing. It would almost be a not worth it kind of situation. Of course a lot of this depends upon the level of the DNPC and exactly how it is bought. 2) Follower. At this point the player has spent his most precious substance, points. He does not have to buy the animal with cash. The follower is going to be helpful, but remember that followers have their own lives and are not necessarily slavishly loyal. As a follower I would let the animal follow almost all the players commands and even has some initiative. A guard dog bought as a follower is going to be better than the same guard dog bought wit cash. The guard dog and warhorse would attack in combat and there would be little downside to having the animals. They would not get lost, injured, or stolen often if at all. 3) Bought with money. I like to think of this as the all bets are off way of having an animal companion. It isn’t as bad as the DNPC, but not nearly as good as the follower. Using this way I think of the animal as nothing more than property. Look at a sword, you wouldn’t make the character spend points on his sword would you? So the guard dog will guard, attack, and do the normal things you would expect the guard dog to do, but not much extra and I, as the GM, would not feel badly at all if the dog died, got lost, or whatever. As I said, in my campaign a player bought a “masterwork†warhorse with money. I think I am going to see if she wants to convert it to a follower, because she has taught it some tricks and until it is a follower I will consider it as nothing more than expendable. I guess that is the way to think of it. DNPC’s: very little helpful (almost none), causes lots of problems. Follower: very helpful, little problems, not expendable. Money: helpful, little problems once in a while. Completely expendable. In the new Fantasy Hero book they have a discussion under followers I think that gives some good info on the difference between DNPC and follower.

Okay. You are getting to caught up in the mechanics of HERO system. The skill is a spell system is a kludge. There are NO mechanics for it in reality. The reason it came about is that certain people did not like the idea of wizards using power pools, such as the VPP, and did not like the idea that for every spell a wizard had to buy the power. The reason for this is that if a wizard has to buy every spell as a power either he needs a lot of points to have a lot of spells or he won’t have that many spells. Many people like wizards to have access to lots of spells and I don’t blame them. So, the kludge was born that a wizard could buy a skill as the spell in much the same way a fighter could buy a new skill and be able to use a new weapon. Now, with the new Fantasy Hero edition, it is “official.†However, there are no official mechanics for it. The idea behind it is that a fighter doesn’t have to make up a sword to use it he just gets a skill. Now, using this system, a spellcaster is the same way. He doesn’t have to make up the spell he just has to buy a skill. Note, that just because the fighter doesn’t make up the sword and spend points on it, the sword still has a HERO system write-up. Now, using this system, spells are the same way. Okay So Harry the mage has "Fire abilites" and you want to know Tim the enchanter drains Harry. Well, how does a magical "Drain" work in your world? 1) You can still use Drain as written. Remember Tim is not draining the actual skill that Harry has. He is draining the spell. So you need to figure out how many active points Harry has in “fire spells†and that is what Tim needs to Drain. 2) Since you are using a skill system might I suggest a simple skill vs skill roll? Harry has Fire Magic 13- and Tim has Dispel Magic 12-. From there just follow the rules for skills using the HERO system. 3) May be you want suppress instead of drain? Tim the enchanter cast a spell that makes it difficult for Harry the Mage to cast any spells or maybe specifically fire spells. Tim cast his "Drain Magic Spell" (written using the suppress power). Tim suppresses 30 active points worth of powers. So know Harry's 50pt fireball is instead a 20 pt fireball. Honestly I like the spells as skill magic system (as I said, I am using it for alchemy and potions), but it really isn’t part of the HERO system. If you really want you mages to have a lot of spells and don’t want to use the skill kludge and want Drains, Suppress, Fireball, and whatnot written up the correct HERO way you need to have your mages use a VPP. As I said, I hope some of this dribble helps.

What does RCMP stand for?

As the original poster of this thread I thought I should chime in and tell you what I have decided to do. When I first noticed this (what I thought might be a problem) I initially thought of increasing the DEF, but was not happy with that idea. I then thought of increasing the BODY of the armor, but wasn't sure on that either. In the end I have decided that it is an RP thing. Studded Leather, due to the reinforcment offered by the studs, will not require as much money to repair and will not ruin as quickkly as normal leather.

I think I understand where you are coming from. As I understnad it you are wondering how Dispel would work if you had a skill based magic system. Example: Harry the mage has a fireball spell. However, Harry doesn't have to buy the power Fireball instead he just buys a skill "Fireball 13-". The Fireball spell should be made up by the GM, even though Harry doesn't have to spend points on it, except to buy the skill. The GM should at least have a rough idea of how many active points and what kind of advantages and limitations the power has. If the player isn't buying the power it doesn't have to be exact, but at least close. This way, Tim the enchanter uses his Dispel spell you can figure out of Tim's Dispel is powerful enough or if Tim needs to use a "Greater Dispel." As an example of this I am using a skill based "magic" system for potions and brewing potions. A player alchemist wants to brew a potion of "Increased Speed." To brew the potion he needs the skill Brew "Increased Speed Potion". He spends his points on the skill and makes his roll. Now I as GM make the power up, but the player doesn't have to spend the points. This way if someone comes up and says I am dispelling the potion (I don't think possible, but for arguement sake) I can see if their dispel is enough. Any questions?

There really is now way, within the rules, to make the non-armor wearing character equivalent to the cheap heavy armor wearing character. You have artificially given the armor wearing character 8 DEF for free. Now, how to fix it. 1) If possible change the setting. Maybe something happens and metal becomes rare? Of course, with you characters now running around in metal armor they have become rich. However, a player and his money are quicker to separate then a fool and his money. 2) Begin making it so that heavy armors (DEF 6+) have an automatic -2 DCV. 3) Allow swashbucklers to purchase combat maneuvers against opponents in heavy armor. Basically, by making Plate cheap, you have given the Knight an advantage. To correct the problem you must either take it away or give the “swashbuckler†an advantage that the knight cannot take. Perhaps a new weapon is invented that is deadly, but requires so great manual dexterity that a person in armor can’t weld it?

Why is it a flaw? If a system says guns kill people and guns are rare, but in your setting you make guns common and notice that to many people are dying that does not make the fact that guns kill people a flaw. It is the same thing as if you said, "In my setting bazookas are common" and then complained that no one wore armor. The setting has given the high STR character an advantage buy making armor so cheap. You wouldn't say BODY is to expensive if characters had to buy extra BODY because a setting increased the killing damage of all weapons by fourfold would you? This is not a system flaw. This is a setting flaw.

Boy do I understand that first statement. Just be glad they want to play something other than Champions. As for your second statement than it is a problem with most Fantasy systems and in fact reality. Plate armor IS very effective. How to fix your problem...let me think.

Let me point out to that even in D&D the plate wearing knight with high STR will be better off than the D&D high DEX swashbucker. The 18 STR/12DEX Knight can have a +9 to AC with plate where the most the 18 DEX swashbucker can get is about a +7 AC.

You have fallen prey to the D&D is the way fantasy works trap. It is one reason why I dislke D&D. (Which I really don't dislike that much, it is just different, but it has ruined fantasy.) You have skewed things in favor of the armor, it might be difficult getting back. This is not the fault of the HERO system and neither is it your fault. It is just a different way to play. The reason D&D gets away with it is because the generailze so much that the intricacies are lost and D&D makes no difference in being not hit and being hit, but armor stopping the damage.

Okay then my swashbucker spends 10 points on STR. I know have all the same advantages as you. I go first every time and I am hiting you a lot more than you are hitting me. What can you spend 10 points on to even the score? Another +5 with Sword. (That's +10 with sword and you have spend 20 points.) You have yet to answer my question. Since you are giving your knight expensive rare plate armor what are you giving my swashbuckler that is even in value?

duplicate post.

This is like complaining that the M1A1 Abrams Tank is too good of a weapon. Yes it is. Yes, if everyone could afford it then everyone would have it. Why doesn't everyone have an Abrams Tank? Same reason everyone didn't walk around in Plate mail. Laws and Plate was EXPENSIVE. Lets us your own standard. The "Swashbucker, you say can't buy up to a 20 STR because "then he isn't a swashbucker." Why do you think the Knight in armor should be allowed to buy DEX? This is a chacter choice thing and RP thing not a rule thing.

Knight has 20 STR, DEX 10 Swashbuckler has 20 DEX, 10 STR. Both have speed 3. Knight has spent 20 points. He gets +2 PD, +2 REC, and +5 STUN. Using normal sword he will do 2d6K and have 8PD armor. He must roll 7 or less to hit swashbuckler. The Swashbuckler has spent 30 points. Will always go first in every phase. Will do 1d6K with sword. He must roll a 15 or less to hit the knight. Now if the knight spends his 10 points left, to bring him even with the swashbuckler, on +5 with sword. He still has less of a chance to hit the swashbuckler than the swashbuckler has to hit him. Given average rolls the Knight will go down to STUN damage, though the swashbuckler will be seriously hurt. What I want to know is where did the Knight get his heavy armor? Plate was very expensive. If you give the Knight that kind of advantage what are you giving the swashbuckler to even it out? If the Knight has the money to buy Plate then the swashbuckler has enough money to buy a “fine or masterwork†sword and is probably doing even more damage than the base 1d6.

I agree. That given the range the HERO system uses DEF should probably not be increased. What about the BODY though? If you don't increase the BODY or DEF I am wondering how different GM' roleplay the difference between studded and non-studded armor. Do you have any suggestions?

If the Knight can spend his points on DEX to get the same benefit as the swashbucker, can't the swashbuckler spend his points on STR to get the same benefit as the Knight?

Let us put or money where are mouths are. How about you make up the armor knight and I make up the "swashbucker." Guidelines *Standard character rules and limits from FRED page 15. *Both characters have Normal Character Maxima. *To keep the characters from being complete combat monsters we must put (I say) 50 points into "non-combat" skills. *Limit of 20 points spend on Combat skill levels.

Here is my point. Using the same rules the I haven't seen anything that proves the 150 armored knight IS more effective in combat than the 150 point swashbucker in light armor. Sure the guy in heavy armor isn't going to get hurt by many blows, but I am going to be hitting him a lot while he will be missing me.

First, let me say I agree with you, but only up to a point. You point out that STR is cheap and point to DEX. I don’t want to get into a STR is to cheap argument, but I think you are greatly overlooking the value of DEX. So you spend 13 points on STR, yes you get a lot, but I guarantee you are buying some DEX or you should. If I buy just 21 points of DEX (I don’t need much STR more than 10) I have now increased my chances to hit, chances to be missed, how quickly I go and how many times I can act. Anyhoo…as I said I am not going to get into the STR is to cheap argument. However, for strong characters I have noticed that heavy armor (DEF wise at least) really doesn’t encumber a person to much. Now, my question is why do you think it SHOULD encumber people? It has been proven, many times, that heavy full suits of plate armor did NOT overly greatly encumber the wearer. This is for normal people of about 8-13 STR. Using the Hero system a suit of 40kg will put a in the -2 DCV/DEX, -1†movement, and cost 1 END per turn. I don’t think this is to greatly out of line with reality. Now look at your character with the 18-20 STR. First let me point out that the character has the strength of a Grizzly bear. I don’t know of many people that are that strong. In fact, I know of no one that is that strong. The character you point out should be able to wear heavy armor and move around okay. Now what is to keep all your players pumping all their points in STR? Nothing. What is to keep your players from pumping all their points in DEX? What is to keep all your players from making up all magic-users? I think the problem you are pointing out is a problem with roleplaying not with STR being to cheap or heavy armors being to light. If you are worried about it, you can: a) Make a house rule saying only one player can have a STR above 15. Make a house rule saying that Metal armors automatically give a -1 DCV/DEX (or higher) penalty in addition to the penalty from encumberance.

Hello all. In Fantasy Hero, the new book, leather armor is broken down into soft, heavy, and boiled. Then, you can add metal studs to each to get studded leather. However, according to the book, studded leather is equivalent in DEF provided and the BODY of the armor, as its equivalent non-studded armor. Example: Heavy leather armor is equivalent to studded heavy leather armor. Mechanically there is no difference between the armors. However, according to the book adding studding to armor “reinforces†it. So, how do we account for the difference between studded and non-studded armor? Do you raise the DEF? Do you raise the BODY of the armor? Do you do something else?

No problem. See my statements on High Fantasy. One way to get around the "slitting throats problem" is how you run your NPC's. When they go down, just call them dead. Also, realize that when the NPC goes down due to being "stunned," maybe they bleed to death before the PC's get to him.