Acroyear

This one? "Causes the hammer to return to the exact spot from which it is thrown after striking its target. " I fail to see how it's even a factor. Please elaborate on this idea. Surfer has superfast A to B movement. He does not have classic superfast ambulatory actions like Superman or the Flash. That's a considerable difference, imo. (unless, of course, Surfer has changed... I mean, even the Thing can land punches on him fairly easily, and I'd hardly call him extraordinarily nimble).

On the contrary, you can create a character who never misses. Use the cover maneuver. Since the shot is not fired unless you succeed in the cover roll, you effectively never miss. You may not get a shot off every phase, but when you do shoot... you never miss. You get a small penalty for covering... but so what? You want the kewl rep or not?

Read Beggars in Spain... genetic engineering which SELECTED improvements. However, that story doesn't go underground in quite the same way. It's way out in the open and nigh untouchable. It's RDUNeil's style, I bet You could go with psionics. Alien tampering. The very watered down, extended lineage of dragons...The awakening of a modern age of gods. The "mutant" label is the most mutable aspect of the whole X-Men schtick. Hell, even if you don't unify the origin type... just make the superhuman aspect feared and hated. Even more terrifying, the more superhumans there are... it seems like more events create superhumans... so they literally can steal your children from you and turn them into those... those things.

No one says the hammer isn't magical to some degree. The debate is wether or not the impact from the hammer is magic special effect or if it's mundane. Everything I could find doesn't say anything about the damage of the hammer being magically enhanced in any way, meaning impacts from it are mundane. It's nigh unbreakable property is not even a form of enchantment, either... it is simply a property of the metal (like, say, adamantium or whatever). Another property is that it can hold enchantments. That's it. Quoting found info again (if anyone has better info out there, share share share)... Beta Ray's And Thor's (note below the text "besides being nearly indestructable, it has been given six enchantments" indicating its hardness is not part of the enchantment). Superman's vulnerability is to magic. Not to magically enchanted objects. There is a difference. Magic affects him as if he were mortal. If it were a magic sword that cuts better than a sword should due to enchanment, then, yes... it cuts him. If it were a magic sword that gives its owner nightvision and doesn't affect how the damage strikes, at all... then I'd say no. This, essentially, is what we're trying to determine and to which I can find no actual evidence to the contrary of my stated position. Supes is still in trouble when it comes to that magic lightning, though.

Which was part of the point of this post. That does not appear to be the case.

Re: Thor vs. Superman I'd agree, the magic lightning would batter Supes down. It's the blow by blow part where I imagine it would be drawn out (is Supes stronger than Thor, anyway?). I haven't been keeping up with the current Thor. I'm sure he'll be de-powered in a while... sounds like he's totally over the top now.

So it's your opinion that Thor's hammer is not as/only as "hard" as his fist? Perhaps you should be more stunned at... Here's a link to his game stats which look partially or wholly cribbed from MU or, I assume, the official listing of his abilities in MSH. http://users.ev1.net/~peanut/bio-thor.html There's a link there for the hammer, itself. No amplified damage listed. Which brings me back to the point of the damage Thor deals out, as impressive as it is, is not actually "magic" in a way that Superman seems especially vulnerable to thus making it not the beat down imagined by some. I did, however, find this on a fan page: Emphasis mine. Meaning that's gonna be some meeeean lightning and qualifies, imo, as magical. Not to mention the godforce blast, itself. http://www.freetech.org/~thor/about/powers.htm Check out the forgotten powers list... Hurricane Breath! Still nothing saying the smack from the hammer is enhanced beyond the hardness of the metal and the strength behind it, though. *shrug* Just some interesting analysis, is all.

I don't think I've seen that. But if that's the case, I'd say Supes is in a heap more trouble, myself I have seen the godforce bolts and such (and we know they hit hard... they've stopped Juggernaut while moving! Well, until the ground him exploded from the insane pressure that caused) but I kind of consider that so rarely used it should be lumped in with Superman traveling through time by flying real fast.... that is, not really counted.

If I hit someone with a hammer from the hardware store, it's a much bigger whallop than if I hit someone with my fist. That does not make the impact damage "magical." It's a weapon. It's supposed to strike harder than a bare fist. The question is, does it strike harder than a weapon made of such material & backed with such strength? Is the damage actually enhanced by magic? I know of no instance were this is even hinted at. I'm pointing out that none of Thor's actual common damaging effects are anything but mundane. Hitting with a hammer, normal lightning bolts. If you start tossing in extremely rare powers, you have to allow Supes to do the same (in which case, Thor is no match). The most common "Thor wins" argument is that Thor is magical and Superman is defenseless against magic. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a very accurate point. Superman freqently does seem to be on the losing side when up against magic themed characters (like Captain Marvel... I believe he's had the upper hand in every fight I've read) but it's certainly not *bap* oh, Mr. Kent is now a smear on the rug. Like I said, I came across this WW fight while wandering and felt it was somewhat thought provoking.

Well, Thor's hammer is made of magical metal. There's nothing, as far as I know know, to indicate it is enchanted to do more damage than the strength behind it (except maybe to giants). The hardness of the metal allows it to survive such tremendous blows. That is, if Captain America swings the hammer, I don't think he's going to be toppling skyscrapers and such. Someone might have better info there, though. I also don't much expect Thor could take a magic wand and stab Supes through the chest just on the principle that it's a "magic" wand, y'know? WW's sword we know is magical (since it cut him)... but nothing else. It may be enchanted to do more damage (like a common D&D magic sword)... for all we know, anyone with the sword can cut through a vault door like butter. It's a tough one to include in the discussion, really. We might assume Superman is clumsier than us humans when it comes to handling sharp or pointy objects and, thus, no damage enchantment is needed. Or, he may actually be more cautious with such things since his great strength could easily destroy most objects. So I guess that's a personal decision again

Heh heh. Well, I was just commenting, really, on the oft held belief (even by me on occasion) that the strength or the hammer would turn Supes into jello. However, we've seen time and time again that it isn't the case. It hurts him, but it seems to hurt him little more than one strong guy punching another strong guy real hard... be it magic fist, magic steel girder, or whatever... I saw this while wandering and decided to share.

Figures... Here's the smack...

You know the ol' argument that Thor would totally creamulate the man of steel because he's "magical" and Superman would be paste? That might not seem to be the case... One might say that Thor's godly strength is no different than Wonder Woman's. Or Captain Marvel's. Cap usually has the upper hand in these fights, though (and there has been more than just the Kingdom Come face off). Since the lightning Thor calls isn't really "magic lightning" either... but actual lightning... that's a no go, imo. I'd say that, discounting Supe's speed (which we can't deny he has but can all agree he doesn't use to best efficiency) I'd say it might not be the punk-fest some forsee. It'll hurt Supes, but he won't be a splattered. He comes back after that WW punch... not really all that damaged. Just something to consider when it inevitably comes around again. Doncha just hate it?

We used a uniform origin in our low power campaign (by player choice, actually). Without going into details it was "stuff x" that forms a union with an individual and grants them abilities (there is a strong focus on reality warping, even if no one really knows that...). The stuff x isn't limited to people, it can hit animals or plants or rocks or whatever. The power, itself, manifests in many ways. One guy could become super strong, the next guy could teleport, the next guy shot fire or grew wings... one guy could be a mage (it's really just reality warping like any other power). One guy could be able to create impossible technology that is exceptionally difficult to duplicate. Look at it like Marvel's "cosmic rays." They generated all manner of mutations. Reed's science also took and amazing turn towards the incredible afterwards (prior to that, remember, he built a rocket that wasn't even porperly shielded... think about it ) Yes, it does create some limits... but you can make those limits are broad or as narrow as you'd like if you put a little effort into it.

I won't go into it like last time... but, yes, I hate Sapphire to a great degree.

Things are only a "legitimate problem" if they are actually a problem. Everything you listed is not a problem with the game, but with individual preferences. My group certainly doesn't find it too slow nor has any problem, at all, keeping track of a mere 2 numbers in combat. 2nd grade subtraction skills aren't a chore for me It can get slow with lots and lots of participants... but so can any other game. Nor is the lack of a "universe" a problem, at all, as it seems most people prefer to use their own inventions in supers. Can one even fairly say that with all the universe material out? CKC is firmly entrenched, CU is a whole universe sourcebook, and a city book is on its heels. It has more universe than any current competitor so far - Marvel having a nice claim when its game comes out. In fact, I found CKC so entrenched, I have no desire to use it. I think it's unfortunate that a game like SAS "wasted" so many pages on their setting (and on that "history of comics bit). Those pages could have been chopped and reduced the price or been used to present a larger stock of villains to use (either as examples or fill ins). It is much more wish-washy and hand waving in style... but it's not fair to call that a "problem" with the system. That's the intention.

A pimp. Admit it... you have aquarium platform shoes with chinese fighting fish in them, don't you?

It makes ya a friggin' geek. If you had the one with the grayscale cover at least we could call you a completionist collector.

That's like saying using a killing attack to simulate disintigrating someone is a wimpy solution because someone might find a way to re-intigrate them. You should transport them to "disintigrated stuff universe" instead. You don't build powers based on what someone probably won't discover as a way to reverse it, this is doubly true when there's actually no way to reverse it. Here's more info on the character... The Chaos Nation character was considered one of the four most powerful villains in that universe, counted among that number was Loki (the god), an unnamed cthonic "old god," and the evil version of Dr. Strange (or for us Elementals fans... Saker dressed like the Phantom Stranger). As such, I have no problem with his absorbtion being irreversible. If the combined heroes of the universe, as presented, with decades of experience have determined that there's simply no way to save these people (including the Superman based one) once they've been absorbed... I'm going to assume that it's a fair bet that there's no way to save them. Just because you can make something complicated doesn't mean you should, imo. There's no functional advantage to this method. In fact, it doesn't work properly as a triggered adjustment power will still only work once a phase. Which means that autofires, teamwork tactics, etc will wipe the villain out easily. And in my case, at least, I don't want to deal with dozens of adjustment powers running at once.

Re: But why would you want to? No mass, size, physical appearance change, at all. (we only saw his "final battle" with some references to earlier battles in text). He selects his prey, grabs them... they glow for a moment... and then are gone. It doesn't look like it. He never tried to absorb another superhuman, though, so he might not be able to. Doesn't appear so. In fact, they only ever leave his body when he releases them... and he only does that if they are dead. He refuses to surrender his "population." Even the extra-goody guys just womp on him with lethal attacks to burn up his population, knowing full well that they are killing innocent people, because there is no other way to stop the guy. Which is why I designed it as just killing them with the absorb SFX. You could treat it as ablative armor... but then you'd need, like, 10 Armor per person in the population. Absorb 100 people and you need 1000 Armor... I felt a nice size of armor (like 50) was plenty with the lims that he loses 1 population per 10 Body he was hit with and then a lim on the armor that he needs population to use it. I'm using a version of him in the campaign I've been working on. I'm currently calling him The Conglomerate Man.

I did a Chaos Nation thread ages ago. He's from the Pantheon miniseries by Bill Willingham. The way I wanted to work it was he gained knowledge the originator had... so he got more skills, too. He did display a complete working knowledge of the absorbed people's lives... total. He could list off their hometowns, who was in their family, etc. I ended up doing it like this: Killing Attack. Yes, when he absorbed someone, he essentially killed them, anyway... as there was no other way to make him release their bodies. So he just kills them (distintigration) with the SFX "absorbed." Mark one tally on the sheet for the limitations of the power ups. The special effect of his "protection" was simply that all damage was applied as if he were a normal... and divided it up amongst his citizens. So the SFX is corpses are falling out of him. The more damage, the more bodies (and the running tab is kept for his other limitations). More SFX would just be he knows who they were and can name them as they drop. It doesn't really provide any mechanical advantage and I don't feel requires points. Essentially he has lots of armor with the lim "loses one citizen for every X body hit with" (not taken, hit with...) The armor also has the lim "must have citizens to assign damage to or is uneffective" which is, eventually, how they defeated him... Then just limit the other powers based on "must have X people for this level and Y people for that level." Using adjustment almost powers seems to fit, but they also fade over time. Chaos Nation maintained the power once he got it.... I suppose you could buy up the time chart... effective permanance... but you'd have to by the top end of the adjustment power pretty high - just buying the powers and limiting them is probably more cost effective. He also claimed that he usually was very selective with his absorbtion... which is what lead me to believe he gained there skills and probably more power from more "potent" citizens... but the variances of normal human to normal human are probably too slight to try to reflect in game mechanics. EDIT: Aieee... I must have been more Dr Funk than I thought... look at all those terrible spelling errors....

Yet you're destroying cities and tossing genocide around with people with super powers and space aliens. With a timeline of super powers it's already not "our world" to be impacted by the introduction of supers... it's already happened. It's happened over a decade ago. It's no longer the introduction of a strange element into our world, it's now a fantasy world. Again, I ask, what do you do if these people you're wiping out become important in the future (assuming your game lasts that long)? Then you have to make up even more fiction and further and further detach the game world from the "real world." In the end, it's just another fantasy setting. Just to point out.. some people would this not only disturbing (arresting people for things they haven't done) but downright insulting to those who were victims at that time Odd to think that for some... and yet it happens. All in all, if you're comfortable with it... go for it.

The only issue I have with things like, say, a terrible genocide of an existing people is... What if the game is still going strong 2 years from now... and two years from now they are the dominant people in the region? Or have some other significant impact? (just saying for argument's sake). In these instances, since you are altering history, anyway... why not make up a people and small chunk of some places to be their country? It's not uncommon in comics and you don't lose anything. Some might claim "oh, but that's so unrealistic" but that doesn't stop Dr. Doom fandom... and, let's face it, you're playing a game with people who can fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes and stuff.

The power idea has been used to simulate skills a few times. Super Interrogation as telepathy, for example. He's SO good, that he puts together information that seems unavailable to normal skill use. Maybe instead of the "affected by time" lim, you can use a lim like "contested roll." So another criminologist/criminal can make it more difficult. And if there is no skill, the crime scene acts like a 0 Stat skill roll that gets bonuses as if it were "taking extra time" based on the time chart.

Perhaps add a lim like: Identifying features of participants take an additional skill roll with appropriate equipment -1/4 This simulates that while analyzing the crime scene, the individual can, in fact, determine who the person is... via fingerprints, DNA, etc... but needs not only the proper lab to analyze it but needs files to compare it to. If the person is on file, he can get a match... otherwise, he has to wait until he gets the proper "equipment" (matching sample).