DrFurious

What would be the point?

Re: question about END. Drains You've already asked this and Steve has already answered. Just to be clear: The END drain does not do any STUN damage. The target (in this case is at a reduced END level (potentially 0 or negative depending on how much you drain). In effect, this is the same as if he had already spent all his END for powers, movement, etc. (Note: normal use of END doesn't make it go negative - only to zero). Since B is at -12 END, to perform any action that requires any END expenditure means that he has a few options. 1) Wait until the drained points return so that he has a positive END total. 2) Perform the action anyway and burn STUN points to supply the END for the power. This follows the standard rules of using STUN when your END has been reduced to zero. The only question here is: Do you need to spend STUN to overcome the negative END total. IMO, you do not have to. For one, this could be very abusive - especially in a super-heroic game where everyone spends a lot of endurance. Two, the burning of STUN for END doesn't actually change you END total. Think of STUN as an alternate power source or as a side-effect for using a power when you have a non-positive END total. !DrFURIOUS!

That was before they invented fractions

For a more useful answer (rather than look it up in a book you don't have) is to use Stretching to simulate the reach. You'd probably want 2" or more for the giant version, no non-combat stretch(-?/?), other weapon lims( OAF, etc...). That should do it. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: Re: Re: OCV, DCV as skills Ah my friend, but you have neglected the other effects! What if you want to purchase DCV as well? The costs become much more equal but without all the added benefits of a high DEX - speed, DEX-skills, going first in a phase, etc. For example: 20 DEX -> 7 OCV, 7 DCV (30 points) 10 DEX -> 3 OCV, 3 DCV + 8 CSL (1/2 for offense, 1/2 for defense, say -1/2 limitation) (0 + 27 points). Admittedly, I haven't worked out all permutations of numbers (and I'm not inclined to do so), but I suspect that the totals would be very close - why else do write-ups tend to be DEX-focused? As an aside, I'm not sure that Nightmare was advocating CSL as the OCV/DCV replacement. Going with a skill vs skill roll and assuming a 3/2 cost structure you may very well get significant cost savings for the same CV. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: Re: Re: OCV, DCV as skills The point I was trying to make is edit: for clarity

It may not be because it pretends to be a universal system but rather that the system seems to exclusively encourage debates and endless discussion on effect building. A survey of the posts on the boards here shows that the vast majority of them involve rules questions, tinkering, how-to-build, etc. A tool-kit system such as Hero is designed to provide this. Do all gamers want this? No. Can they appreciate it? Maybe. Would they rather have original and inspirational material rather than more rules? Probably. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: OCV, DCV as skills I like this idea. This means that you could have someone like Grond be a great combatant without having a DEX better than a world-class olympian - a flaw that seems to appear in many 4th edition characters. I'm sure that others would disagree and say you could use CSL. The problem with this approach is that it's really cheaper and more effective to have an obscenely high DEX. You're not going to see many players (or writeups) that follow that approach consistently. !DrFURIOUS!

If you want something more physically based, you could try - Flash to Touch, maybe with some Invisible Power effects. Kinda like novocaine !DrFURIOUS!

Personally I'd scrap the PRE stat and make it a skill like Intimidate/Impress/Presence. Mechanically, I think it fits better with what Presence's effect in a game should be like. If that doesn't ring your bell, you can think of it as a talent-like-skill. !DrFURIOUS!

Just finished re-watching Unbreakable tonight and was wondering if anyone has any stories about games along this line. I'd like to hear any experiences and/or thoughts about a campaign based on the tone of the movie... !DrFURIOUS!

One of my gripes is the escalation in the number and variety of advantages - especially ones that are just specific to a single power. I prefer to make a minimalist approach with a limited number of advantages. I find that the current approach in Hero is to throw advantages at things. I think this makes things more complicated - especially for new adopters to the system. One of the things I liked about the 4th rulesbook was that it was relatively small and concise. In 5th, there is a greater number of details and special cases for each power to remember. If there is a logical extension to a power that doesn't fall under an existing advantage - then that is a signal that the advantage framework needs to be redesigned. I'd much rather interpret an existing advantage differently than make one up on the spot ad hoc. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: Is this how naked advantages work? I'm not certain (no rulebook handy) but but I think you have to specify a power that the naked advantage refers to. Anyone know for certain?

Re: Forced Susceptibilities Not necessarily. Since all you want to do is to damage the opponent, a simple attack power with advantages could work. You could build a continious uncontrolled attack to affect the target, limited to only in direct sunlight. The requirement to stop the uncontrolled attack can be the various ways of removing the curse. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: Re: Bricks and Weightlessness Take a sheet of paper, which is almost weightless. Now throw it. Did it really go anywhere? Ans: no. Now crumple it up into a ball. Now throw it. Did it really go anywhere? Ans: yes. (provided your arm is stronger than a limp noodle The paper has the same mass (and weight for that matter). What you are seeing is the effect of air resistance. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: Combat help Attack actions are Phase-ending actions - they end your Phase even if you have a 1/2 Phase left. A held action is not necessarily a defensive action. Basically this allows you to delay taking your action to later in a segment or in a different segment. In actual play, I avoid this since it can slow things down. For held actions, the player must phrase the held action as: "I hold until ___ then I _____" e.g. "I hold until he steps out from cover, then I shoot him." If the event doesn't happen, the held action gets wasted - at least until your next Phase. There is a distinction between phases and segments. You have 12 segments to a Turn, each segment in which you can act according to your speed is your Phase. E.g. a character with a speed of 4 can act on segments 3,6,9,12 - i.e. his Phases are 3,6,9,12. During the course of combat, say we are in segment 6. This is your phase and you fire at an opponent. Later in this segment, one of the enemy mooks fires back at you. Since you've already acted this segment, you cannot abort to a defensive action. Consider the situation where the mook had a speed of 3 (Phases on 4,8,12). Your character fired on segment 3, on segment 4 the mook gets an action. In this case, you decide to abort to a defensive action. Since you have not acted on this segment (you acted on the previous segment), you are allowed to abort. Hope this helps. !DrFURIOUS!

That really depends on how your envision the Relic working. If you can only use one power at a time, then a multipower would be appropriate. Either way, you don't HAVE to stick the powers in a multipower but it can save you points. I'd probably apply the following limitation to all slots of the multipower: Limitation: Once Relic is activated, may only be used in the next 5 minutes (-1/2). (This is based on 1 Charge, continuing charge for 5 minutes. This would normally be a -3/4 limitation but since the above limitation is not as restrictive as this, I reduced it to -1/2.) You should be able to apply this limitation to all the slots and hence to the reserve pool. !DrFURIOUS!

Re: More Power Questions Just to point you in the right direction Sounds like a continuing charge (or a variant) to me. Probably a naked advantage bought as a focus (for the Relic). i.e. 0 END (+1/2) on 60 Active point power (base cost = 60 * .5 = 30 pts), OAF (-1), Only to reduce END cost by up to 4 END (+0). Real cost 15 pts. Season to taste. Looks like you'll need a cosmic style VPP to change as a 0 phase action and with no skill roll to change (+2 total advantages IIRC). Place a limitation on the VPP to represent the changing nature - probably base it on the No Conscious Control (-2) limitation. The points you save from this limitation can be bought off with the Relic. e.g. if your NCC lim saves you 30 points on the control cost, you can have a Relic like so. Peek-a-look Relic, buy off NCC lim on VPP (30 pts base), OAF (-1), only to discard 1 change per phase (-1??). Real cost: 10 pts. Hope this helps. !DrFURIOUS!

From what I understand, the motive for taking the body was to obtain some identification (they were kind of pressed for time with sirens blazing in the distance). The player has later admitted that taking the body was probably a dumb idea. While some of the PCs do have some investigation-type skills, I think that the more gung-ho players may drag things down. Safety of the hostage/general public was not on some players minds during this scenario. I like the serial killer targeting priests/judges idea. Father Richter does have a DNPC superior who can be a good target for an attack. The other PCs for the most part are a bit detached from the campaign world. What I mean is that they haven't really gotten to know any of the major NPCs and become invested in their wellbeing. A good candidate may be the bum who first gave them information about the BCKs. Thanks for the suggestions! !DrFurious!

You could always use the optional rules for minor wounds - i.e. Paramedic roll to reduce each wound by 1 body, and conventional healing - i.e. wounds of 1 body can be healed after combat (up to REC minor wounds in a day). !DrFurious!

Session #2: I've always liked it when I've gotten handouts as a player. For some reason having something in your hands keeps you more involved in the game. For this reason, I've decided to use a technique from CoC - newspaper clippings. Spending some time with the good old word processor, I came up with the front page of the local paper. Headlines include: Man runs into Strip traffic (introduces the Strip, foreshadows a cult hunting people) Girls joining street gangs in record numbers (flavor/fluff) Mafia War Feared (setting up the Scatucci-Torccone war) Blackbridge Murder (first of the Boogieman killings) Interdiction of Drug Planes in Colombia to Resume (flavor/fluff) Helicopter Carrying Russian Governor and Aides Disappears (mentioning Russians for a later plot with the Russian mob) Now depending on the player's actions, I may develop some of these stories or leave them as red herrings. A lot of this is to help set a mood as well as foreshadow campaign elements for later sessions. Cast recap: Judge Montgomery "Monty" Gibbs, aka "Vengence" - criminal court judge Father John Richter, aka "Gabriel" - catholic junior priest with some mystic powers of an angel of vengence. Kurt Vanderlay, aka "Knova" - former dot-com mogol with a surveillance van. Jesse Hood, aka ??? - fast'n'furious mechanic with family connections in the mafia. Jake Anderson, aka Pheonix - wealthy, scarred ex-green beret The session opened up with Kurt beginning his investigation on the church assailant - Walter Meyers. He was able to assemble a dossier on Meyers using his links into the local and federal computer systems. The next step was to investigate Meyer's home - an abandoned tenement in the Freetown district. That night, the group gathered outside the tenement - which the HCPD had already superficially searched. Investigating, they found indications that some remains had been disposed in the bathtub. In addition, they also found an unidentified haunch of meat in the freezer - possibly human. Other signs confirmed that Meyers has mental problems and an obsession with satanism. Withdrawing, they encountered a street bum watching nearby. After a brief chase [the bum didn't react well when he saw a masked man stalking towark him and two others attempting to flank.], the bum revealed that another group in black trench-coats had arrived during the night [before the police] and had cleaned out the tenement. They had burned several items in a metal barrel nearby. The barrel revealed a partial address for a warehouse at Pier Point. A brief meeting at St. Micheal's and they rendevoued at the warehouse - some in the survellience van, others in Jesse's weapon-laden GTO. Finding an inconspicious spot, they settled down to observe. In short order, they observed a blue van arrive containing four men in matrix-style trenchcoats, sunglasses, and assault rifles (now dubbed the BCKs - Black Coat Killers) with a trussed captive (female?) under a black hood. Evidently relieving two BCKs guarding the interior of the warehouse, the van began to pull away. The PCs scrambled to follow. After some confusion, Kurt (Knova) began shadowing the BCKs in the surviellence van, followed by Jesse in the more conspicious battle-GTO. Unfortunately, Knova's shadowing was not too good (8- !) and he broke cover. While the BCKs didn't give any indication that they had observed Knova's van, the PCs decided "oh f*** it" and moved to halt the BCKs in the middle of the busy street. [Aside: This kind of took me unawares. I hadn't really expected the PCs to try something this foolish. The BCKs were obviously heading somewhere, WITH a hostage, and the PCs had no idea who they were working for. Still, only two PCs were driving so any cautious words from other PCs fell on deaf ears.] Speeding up alongside the BCKs van [who STILL hadn't seen the PCs - bad PER rolls ] they attempted to shoot out the tires. Now imagine a running vehicle gunfight in four-lane traffic. The results were not pretty. Under assault, the BCKs attempted to evade the PCs. However, due to vehicle damage and a failed combat driving roll, they flipped the van (~40 mph). Barely avoiding crashing themselves they spilled out into the accident scene. In the ensuing gun battle, two BCKs went down [one riddled with bullets, the other tranq'ed with darts] while the other two made their escape. Distant sirens announced the approach of police, the PCs grabbed the drugged BCK and the corpse of the hostage [she was killed in the crash]. The session ended with the PCs speeding away, moments before the police arrived on the scene. Possible Aftermath: The PCs now have a captive to interrogate and the body of a dead hostage to dispose of. I can't say that my players' choices have been stellar this game. While things could have gone worse, they've suceeded in alerting certain forces of their presence. Certain physiological abnormalities in the BCKs will come to light during the autopsy - unfortunately the PCs have no contacts in the coroner's office. One of the PCs [Knova] distains masks and may be identified by occupants of other vehicles. He would be seen with a limp (dead?) body of a woman slung over his shoulder fleeing the scene. Dissention withing the ranks of the PCs may spill out. Several of the PCs (players) strongly opposed the street assault and the taking of the hostage body. Hopefully my players become a little bit more cautious and less reckless. We shall see what happens next week. !DrFurious!

If anyone is still reading this thread, I'd like some advice on how to handle one of my PCs actions. In my last session, the priest PC and the hostage taker had been struggling. At the time, the priest had possession of the shotgun while the tormented hostage-taker was ineffectually fumbling at the gun. He was trying to get the priest to shoot him (apparently to commit suicide) but arguably this could be difficult to tell from behind. Now, my concern is that the ex-beret PC had been rushing up from the rear (along with 2 other characters flanking) and unloaded with the Desert Eagle. Somewhat dangerous since the two were in an apparent stuggle. The resulting critical shoulder wound took him out and is what eventually killed the assailant enroute to the hospital. My question is: how would the police treat the ex-beret? The gunshot is obviouly taken from behind the guy. When the police arrived, he gave himself and his weapon up without complaint. He's got a concealed weapon's permit for the gun. Now I've basically had the police detain him for questioning and to give a statement. He was released the next morning. As it stands, I don't have too much of a problem with what the police have done (so far) but I'm concerned that the players may begin engaging in future bloodbaths. (I won't go into the other PC who wanted to finish off the guy when no one was looking because he had a Rep: Killer of Criminals [shudder]). I don't want him thinking that the weapon permit gives him a license to kill or wave his gun around. Then again, this is a vigilante game and I don't want to shut things down totally. Realistically, what should the police have done? !DrFurious!

Well, since a follower is generally co-operative (otherwise he wouldn't be a follower) the disadvantage doesn't *really* change this much. It does open the door to someone else obtaining the ring and using the follower against other - in my book that does qualify as a disadvantage for the follower. I suspect that your statement applies to summoned creatures, not followers. I don't have my book handy so I can't confirm one way or the other. !DrFurious!

Go with buying the Golem as a follower with a psych/phys disadvantage: Follows orders of the ring bearer. If I'm remembering my follower rules correctly, you'll still get a point-break with the follower's disadvantage. !DrFurious!

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I've got an idea of how the game is to proceed. Well, we've just finished our first session and for the most part things have gone well. We have a new character joining the group - a MacGuyver type mechanic. The first part of the session consisted of quicking creating the mechanic and incorporating him into the group. I've decided that it would be best if the characters have known each other for a while. They are members of the same community and have attended several block-watch type gatherings. As part of the session introduction, I had the players introduce their characters and reveal details that would have emerged during several weeks of conversions. As a result, I think we have a relatively cohesive group. The action began at St. Micheals Catholic Church, where Father John Richter works. A seminar was being held in one of the church's common rooms - the topic: Crime Prevention in the Community. The slated speaker, a police officer, had been injured in a recent incident. Since one of the PCs had connections with the force, he was called in as a replacement. The other PCs were present as part of the audience. Meanwhile, Father Richter was attending to his duties - prayers were being held as well as open confessionals. During one of the confessions, a distraught individual begged the priest for forgiveness. In a disjointed conversation, the man mentioned some horrible crimes that he had committed with others - involving killing innocents. One moment he was contrite, the other he was ranting about the priest serving a dark master. This alarmed Father Richter a great deal and he quickly exited the confessional -quickly followed by the unstable confessor. He emerged and revealed a 12-guage shotgun and a chest strapped with several sticks of dynamite. Firing into weapon into the air - a hostage situation ensued. The man demanded "the blood" and began raving about "the hunger". Waiting for an opening, Father Richter led the man toward the back of the chapel where the sacremental wine was stored. Meanwhile some of the other PCs in the seminar room heard the shot and came to investigate. Realizing the situation, he returned to the seminar room to alert the other characters. They began to evacuate the audience while the ex-beret Jake Anderson began to stealth toward the chapel room. Unfortunately, the actions of the other PCs were hampered by their wish to conceal their vigilante tendancies. The judge attempted to alter the police via 911, the new mechanic character hurried to his car for some weapons, while the ex-dot-com mogul filed out with some of the audience to a side exit. Since his character hadn't heard the gunshot and he didn't want to be seen associating with the other PCs, the ex-mogol he was staying out of the action. I thought this was a bit odd since he had an Obsessed with Crime-fighting disadvantage and something odd was definitely going on. When the ex-beret pulls out his Desert Eagle and stalks into the church - SOMETHING must be going on. After some prodding, I got the character hussling back into the church. Meanwhile, after another warning shotgun blast, Father Richter handed the wine bottle to the deranged and backed away, still waiting for his chance. Moving to the alter, the hostage-taker laid the shotgun aside and with the other hand stuffed into his pocket (presumably on a detonator) attempted to drink the "blood" Obviously not what he was expecting, he spewed out the wine. At this point, the priest attempted to tackle the assilant - missing badly and leaving himself wide open. Leveling the shotgun, the assailant let loose and delivered a nasty wound to the priest's hand. This triggered a blood-lust disad in the assailent and he attempted to gnaw the injured hand. A scuffle ensued and eventually Father Richter was able to obtain the shotgun - unfortunately, the unstable man still had a hand on a detonator. A quick blast disabled the arm holding the detonator - which went flying into the pews. Flipping between blood-lust and remorse, the man attempted to wrestle the shotgun and force the priest to kill him. At this point, the ex-beret entered and let loose with the Desert Eagle - virtually blowing his right arm off at the shoulder (critical damage roll!). Falling to his knees, the hostage-taker began bleeding profusely from the wound. The other PCs arrived and took charge. The man was effectively out of the action. Police, paramedics, and the bomb squad arrived and began the clean-up. Two of the PCs slipped away to avoid un-necessary attention with the others delivered up their statements. The ex-beret was taken to the precinct for questioning and to make a statement. Unfortunately, the interrogating detective didn't take too kindly to his actions and grilled him until the early hours of the morning. Next day, the PCs gathered to compare notes. The other PCs got the full story from Father Richter and began making plans to investigate the nutcase, who they learned was named Walter Meyers. For the most part, I'm pleased with how the characters are working together. With the pre-session buildup of the characters knowing each other as part of the community watch, I think we've established a believable reason for them to associate. At least it doesn't seem as forced as some "get the characters to work together" scenarios. Unfortunately for this session, several of the characters were left out of the battle. Hopefully this won't occur too frequently - I don't anticipate that the characters will be involved in altercations while playing their every-day lives. We'll see how things progress next session. !DrFurious!