Regeneration as a Spell

[Tywyll]

How would you build a regeneration effect as a spell rather than as a constant power? I would like some healing spells to actually increase someone's healing rate dramatically, over time, ala the Regeneration effect. Any suggestions?

[1EyedJack]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Aid to the targets REC with a increase fade rate bought up to like a month with a limit only for recovering body,or healing with a gradule effect limit.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Well, if you wanna be technical, are you talking about Regen:

 

28 Regenerator: Healing 4 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Hour (-2 1/4)

 

Or a Gradual Effect heal? Which is like Regen, except it sucks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

How would you build a regeneration effect as a spell rather than as a constant power? I would like some healing spells to actually increase someone's healing rate dramatically' date=' over time, ala the Regeneration effect. Any suggestions?[/quote']

 

I would start with something like this:

 

30 You CAN heal those wounds!: Healing BODY 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (152 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; used during casting only; -1 1/4), Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, -3/4), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Others Only (-1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Hour (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage One Type of Damage (-1/4) - END=[1 cc]

 

For 1 hour the recipient is going to be virtually unkillable. They can still be knocked out but they can live through almost any wound except from 1 particular sfx of damage (say fire, acid, silver etc...).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Except. By rule you cannot Regen someone else. Forbidden. You have to heal 'em. You may ONLY regen yourself.

 

HERO 5ER p187: "[Regeneration Must be Bought With] Reduced END (0 END), Persistent, Extra Time, and Self Only." (edited for brevity)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Except. By rule you cannot Regen someone else. Forbidden. You have to heal 'em. You may ONLY regen yourself.

 

HERO 5ER p187: "[Regeneration Must be Bought With] Reduced END (0 END), Persistent, Extra Time, and Self Only." (edited for brevity)

 

Regeneration

Regeneration is an optional form of Healing

 

That is the simplified Regeneration form of Healing. I didn't use that. I paid for ALL the effects. The optional Regeneration you quote gives Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) for free.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

ACH-HA. Objection withdrawn, thank you for clarifying that.

[Tywyll]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

I would start with something like this:

 

30 You CAN heal those wounds!: Healing BODY 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (152 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; used during casting only; -1 1/4), Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, -3/4), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Others Only (-1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Hour (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage One Type of Damage (-1/4) - END=[1 cc]

 

For 1 hour the recipient is going to be virtually unkillable. They can still be knocked out but they can live through almost any wound except from 1 particular sfx of damage (say fire, acid, silver etc...).

 

 

'Decreased Re-use Duration'? Where did that come from?

 

Anyway, the above build won't work for me because it has a charge which my spell system doesn't use. Also its AP is waaaaay beyond what a reasonable caster could pull off with their RSR.

[Tywyll]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Ok, let me give a little more detail.

 

On one hand, we have a spell that heals 2d6 Body, Simplified (so 0-4 Body).

 

This is a mere 20 AP, not counting any advantages, and is typically instantaneous.

 

If someone wants to build a spell that Regenerates that amount, but over a long period of time, the difficulty/cost associated with the spell seems like it ougt to be lower (less END to the caster, less penalty on their Skill roll to cast). If the spell healed 2 Body, but took 6 hours or whatever per body, that seems like it should be easier to handle/cast etc.

 

The closest thing I can think of is delayed effect, but that really feels wrong, and would often make the spell more difficult to cast than one that went 'Poof' and healed the target.

 

I'm also looking at an alternative power that Steve came up with in Heroglyphics that allowed one's Rec to trigger faster. That feels exactly right, but its a self only power as well.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Ok, let me give a little more detail.

 

On one hand, we have a spell that heals 2d6 Body, Simplified (so 0-4 Body).

 

This is a mere 20 AP, not counting any advantages, and is typically instantaneous.

 

If someone wants to build a spell that Regenerates that amount, but over a long period of time, the difficulty/cost associated with the spell seems like it ougt to be lower (less END to the caster, less penalty on their Skill roll to cast). If the spell healed 2 Body, but took 6 hours or whatever per body, that seems like it should be easier to handle/cast etc.

 

The closest thing I can think of is delayed effect, but that really feels wrong, and would often make the spell more difficult to cast than one that went 'Poof' and healed the target.

If you're aiming for a low point cost spell that heals a bit of damage, stops bleeding, and generally mimics accelerated natural healing, then go with Simplified Healing with Gradual Effect. Rather than an advantage, you get a pretty hefty Limit... 6 hours nets you an extra -1 1/2. I'd probably also add on the +5 pt "Can heal limbs" adder if I wanted that "slow regeneration" effect.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

'Decreased Re-use Duration'? Where did that come from?

 

Anyway, the above build won't work for me because it has a charge which my spell system doesn't use. Also its AP is waaaaay beyond what a reasonable caster could pull off with their RSR.

 

I'm doing this with Hero Designer v3. Just tell me what time parameters (duration and reuse) you want and I can reconfigure the build.

 

Another option might be to use Aid to REC and put a Limitation: Only to increase BODY REC/month. Probably still over 100 active points though.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

'Decreased Re-use Duration'? Where did that come from?

 

5ER p188

[Rapier]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

The main problem with using the 'increased REC to heal BODY' is that you heal your REC in BODY per month. +30 REC (Only to Heal BODY...-2 ?) is STILL going to cost you 20 points...and that will only earn you 1 BODY per day. Certainly not enough to really be worth much of anything. To get a point of BODY every turn would be about +216,000 REC (144,000 Real Points). WHOA! Talk about not a lot of bang for your buck!

 

Regeneration is basically built as a Healing with a bunch of Healing specific custom limitations. Heck, flip them around and make them work for you. Buy yourself some Regen, buy off the Self Only and apply a x3 END for the Non-Self and run with it.

 

The nice thing about Hero is that we now know how/why so much of the basics were built. Pull them apart and TOOLKIT THEM DAMNIT!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Heres one that works on the caster:

Regrow Flesh

 

Technically its not legal to grant the Regeneration variant of Healing to others, but the GM can always make an exception if they like.

[Silbeg]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

based on what many others have already stated, you could do something like this:

19 Spell of Healing: Healing BODY 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Minute; +1 1/4); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Gradual Effect (1 Minute; -1/2)

 

This will heal 6 body, healing 1 BODY/10 seconds. In addition, it can be immediately cast again, once the healing has completed. Now, as a spell, I would sprinkle with the appropriate extra lims... such as RSR, incants, only while serving diety's purpose, OAF (Holy Symbol), and the like. However, this would work fine for a "Regeneration, Usable On Others".

 

Note that it will also heal limbs.

 

Given the time span for the gradual effect, healing STUN really wouldn't help any (with enough recoveries, that will take care of itself).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

based on what many others have already stated, you could do something like this:

19 Spell of Healing: Healing BODY 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Minute; +1 1/4); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Gradual Effect (1 Minute; -1/2)

 

This will heal 6 body, healing 1 BODY/10 seconds. In addition, it can be immediately cast again, once the healing has completed. Now, as a spell, I would sprinkle with the appropriate extra lims... such as RSR, incants, only while serving diety's purpose, OAF (Holy Symbol), and the like. However, this would work fine for a "Regeneration, Usable On Others".

 

Note that it will also heal limbs.

 

Given the time span for the gradual effect, healing STUN really wouldn't help any (with enough recoveries, that will take care of itself).

 

Currently that build will only Heal 3 points of BODY.

 

Remember, the character points of Healing still get applied the standard characteristic cost multiples. The same build would Heal 2 points of DEX and and 12 points of END.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

based on what many others have already stated, you could do something like this:

19 Spell of Healing: Healing BODY 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Minute; +1 1/4); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Gradual Effect (1 Minute; -1/2)

 

This will heal 6 body, healing 1 BODY/10 seconds. In addition, it can be immediately cast again, once the healing has completed. Now, as a spell, I would sprinkle with the appropriate extra lims... such as RSR, incants, only while serving diety's purpose, OAF (Holy Symbol), and the like. However, this would work fine for a "Regeneration, Usable On Others".

 

Note that it will also heal limbs.

 

Given the time span for the gradual effect, healing STUN really wouldn't help any (with enough recoveries, that will take care of itself).

Yeah, something like that was what I had in mind.

 

Edit: removed redundant comment

[Silbeg]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Currently that build will only Heal 3 points of BODY.

 

Remember, the character points of Healing still get applied the standard characteristic cost multiples. The same build would Heal 2 points of DEX and and 12 points of END.

 

D'oh... well, you get the idea, at least. So, 1 Body every 20 seconds, right?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

D'oh... well' date=' you get the idea, at least. So, 1 Body every 20 seconds, right?[/quote']

 

Exactly!

An interestng aspect of that there build is that the cost plummets as you increase the time interval, because not only do you get a larger Gradual Effect Lim, you also pay less for the Decreased Re-use Duration advantage.

So if you knocked this bad boy down to an hourly rate (1 bod/20 minutes) you'd wind up with +1/2 less advantages and -1/2 additional Limits.

 

"Don't knock it, it's **cheap**" - Eddie, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels

[Silbeg]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Exactly!

An interestng aspect of that there build is that the cost plummets as you increase the time interval, because not only do you get a larger Gradual Effect Lim, you also pay less for the Decreased Re-use Duration advantage.

So if you knocked this bad boy down to an hourly rate (1 bod/20 minutes) you'd wind up with +1/2 less advantages and -1/2 additional Limits.

 

"Don't knock it, it's **cheap**" - Eddie, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels

 

Exactly, as well!!!

 

You get what I was getting at.

 

I think it gives a good simulation of what Reneration would be for another...

 

You can also tweak the number of dice to get 1 BODY/turn... that'd need an effect of 12, right? So, that would be 4d6 Healing BODY, standard effect.

 

I think that would be 40% more expensive (so, about 27-28 Real Points, right?).

 

If you want 1 BODY/Minute, you could buy it with a delay of 5 Minutes, Re-use of 5 minutes.. like this:

 

23: Healing Touch: Healing BODY 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (5 Minutes; +1); Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), Gradual Effect (5 Minutes; -3/4)

 

 

Note that I would increase the extra time to be the targetted interval, as well... in this case, it would heal 1 BODY/minute, and take 1 minute to cast. Reuse of 5 minutes means that when it is done, you could reuse, right?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Exactly, as well!!!

 

You get what I was getting at.

 

I think it gives a good simulation of what Reneration would be for another...

 

You can also tweak the number of dice to get 1 BODY/turn... that'd need an effect of 12, right? So, that would be 4d6 Healing BODY, standard effect.

 

I think that would be 40% more expensive (so, about 27-28 Real Points, right?).

 

If you want 1 BODY/Minute, you could buy it with a delay of 5 Minutes, Re-use of 5 minutes.. like this:

 

23: Healing Touch: Healing BODY 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (5 Minutes; +1); Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), Gradual Effect (5 Minutes; -3/4)

 

 

Note that I would increase the extra time to be the targetted interval, as well... in this case, it would heal 1 BODY/minute, and take 1 minute to cast. Reuse of 5 minutes means that when it is done, you could reuse, right?

 

One possible snag with any gradual effect approach is that it would not overcome the constant damage per Turn from the optional bleeding rules (if used).

[Silbeg]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

One possible snag with any gradual effect approach is that it would not overcome the constant damage per Turn from the optional bleeding rules (if used).

 

Well, you could certainly rule that bleeding stops as soon as the power has been applied... similar to a successful paramedics roll (5E418).

 

Also, the bulk of the damage from the bleeding rules is STUN damage, which the healing spell isn't doing anything about.

 

Another possibility is to reduce the bleeding chart row by one for every turn/minute/time increment that the spell has been in effect... So, it may take a second casting to actually heal, if the first is just stopping the bleeding.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

One possible snag with any gradual effect approach is that it would not overcome the constant damage per Turn from the optional bleeding rules (if used).

 

Well, you could certainly rule that bleeding stops as soon as the power has been applied... similar to a successful paramedics roll (5E418).

 

Also, the bulk of the damage from the bleeding rules is STUN damage, which the healing spell isn't doing anything about.

 

Another possibility is to reduce the bleeding chart row by one for every turn/minute/time increment that the spell has been in effect... So, it may take a second casting to actually heal, if the first is just stopping the bleeding.

As the rules state than ANY Heal Body stops bleeding, It's mostly a moot point. I might keep using the bleeding till the time interval for the first point of Body has elapsed, but I'd see it s a GM's call/campaign guideline rather than a hard & fast rule.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

As the rules state than ANY Heal Body stops bleeding' date=' It's mostly a moot point. I might keep using the bleeding till the time interval for the first point of Body has elapsed, but I'd see it s a GM's call/campaign guideline rather than a hard & fast rule.[/quote']

 

Actually this very question was put to Steve Long:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50266&highlight=bleeding

 

Regeneration and Bleeding

 

Rapier asks:

I've been saving all my questions up for a rainy day:

 

A character with Regeneration bleeds like normal (from the FAQ).

 

Does this refer to the Optional Bleeding Rules (5ER, p417 - 418) or the Bleeding to Death effect from Negative BODY? I'm assuming the latter.

 

RegenMan has the normal 1 BODY Regen and takes a wound on Segment 5 that takes him to -1 BODY. At the end of Segment 12 he should take 1 additional BODY for Bleeding to Death and Post-12 will gain him back 1 BODY from his Regen. Will RegenMan continue to bleed the next turn (being perpetually at -1 BODY since the Bleeding to Death and Regen offset each other) or will he stop Bleeding to Death once the Regen has "closed the wound?"

 

Thanks!!

 

Steve Long answers:

It refers to bleeding to death from negative BODY (if it referred to the optional Bleeding rules, I would capitalize it because that’s a specific game term with specific meaning — that’s how it’s written on 5ER 417-18, for example). But for that matter, Healing Regeneration won’t stop Bleeding, either, though the GM might increase the “stop Bleeding” range for a character with Regeneration.

 

Thus, in your example, the character remains at -1 BODY, his bleeding and Regeneration offsetting one another, until he or someone else does something to either (a) stop the bleeding, or ( make things worse. Let's hope it's (a).

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Regeneration as a Spell

 

Actually this very question was put to Steve Long:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50266&highlight=bleeding

 

Regeneration and Bleeding

 

*Shrug*

I don't keep up with inconsistant FAQ rulings, but OK.

 

I was looking at my book, whichsays in no uncertain terms

 

"Any successful use of Healing Body stops Bleeding automatically, but wounds not fully healed can reopen normally."

 

Note the FAQ is refering to little "b" bleeding (post-12) not optional Bleeding rules bleeding.

Why Healing should by default stop the one, and not the other?

Beats me.

Also... this power ISN'T "Regeneration". It's a gradual effect Heal Body that happens to look like regeneration, 'cause, you know, you can't regenerate someone else.

 

Gods, this mess needs to be cleaned up, official like, eventually. THe stop-gap half measures are beginning to cloud the waters.