Enraged plus Beserk?

[Crusty]

I’m looking at building a graduated complication for a warrior species

 

Enraged when losing a fight

 

Beserk when the fight is lost

 

Doable? Is there a better way to do it?

 

 

[archer]

Both "losing a fight" and "when fight is lost" are very subjective and open to interpretation. I'd require the player to define both terms in specifics so that it isn't open to interpretation.

 

For example, I've done a character with Growth, extra CON, extra STUN, extra BODY, and Berserk that kicks in when he's the last person on his side who is still up and fighting. He turns into the typical comic book rage monster similar to the Living Colossus or the Sphinx from Marvel or The Monster from the Wild Cards universe. There's no ambiguity as to when the berserk kicks in.

 

If two out of your five teammates go down, are you losing the fight? What if they're arguably your most powerful teammates? What if two of yours are down but three of the opposing team are down?

 

If your character (or player) is overconfident, is the fight ever "lost" as long as he is up and fighting?

 

 

I'd also note that for a warrior species, if they all go berserk (attacks everyone around them at random) whenever they lose a fight, they'll likely wipe each other out every time they face a setback. So I'm not sure how they'd ever evolve into a warrior species, at least not one which can field organized units of fighters.

 

[Crusty]

I agree with your first comments regarding on how to do it. Good to know.

[unclevlad]

What do you call a race where all its warriors always go berserk?

 

Extinct.

 

Another side aspect is a suspension of disbelief issue.  For a PC, why are the other PCs hanging out with this guy, if he berserks so much?  A berserker is as much, if not MORE, of a danger to his friends, compared to his enemies, and the risk of collateral damage is also huge.  The powers that be have no problem sending a berserker on a suicide mission;  better in the other guys' territory, and hey, no matter what happens, one problem's covered, right?

 

By and large, if I'm the ruler, the best places for a berserker, best to worst:

--the graveyard

--far, far away

--a very, very secure jail

 

Berserkers are far better as literary devices, where the rampage and recovery are completely in service to the story.

[archer]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

 

Another side aspect is a suspension of disbelief issue.  For a PC, why are the other PCs hanging out with this guy, if he berserks so much?  A berserker is as much, if not MORE, of a danger to his friends, compared to his enemies, and the risk of collateral damage is also huge. 

 

You could argue that the players will self-correct the campaign on this one. If the the team has lost the fight, they'll have members who are stunned, unconscious, and low on STUN and/or BODY.

 

Having a teammate who is going to slaughter their characters while they're unconscious is going to get the offending character (or player) uninvited from the group.

 

The absolute best the group could hope for is that the berserk character is going to slaughter first responders and innocent bystanders rather than his own teammates. The first time that happens, any decent GM is going to take it out the consequences of it on the team, even if the team itself doesn't have any problem with all the dead cops, firefighters, paramedics, and ambulance drivers.

[Crusty]

There are many ways that problem is not a problem. For example, ritualized combat and other details not required to get an answer to the question
 

anyway, thanks for clearing up my question 

[archer]

2 hours ago, Crusty said:

There are many ways that problem is not a problem. For example, ritualized combat and other details not required to get an answer to the question
 

anyway, thanks for clearing up my question 

 

Ritualized combat for someone who, by definition, goes berserk and uncontrollably attacks the nearest person to him whenever the berserk trigger occurs? 🦄

[Crusty]

4 hours ago, archer said:

 

Ritualized combat for someone who, by definition, goes berserk and uncontrollably attacks the nearest person to him whenever the berserk trigger occurs? 🦄

Sure. You dug deep to cover tangents and supplied hundreds of words not necessary to answer the question. seems excessive but you did clear up the mechanics for me. So there’s that

 

they’re good points, don’t get me wrong, but only in another discussion where I have provided more information 

[archer]

10 minutes ago, Crusty said:

Sure. You dug deep to cover tangents and supplied hundreds of words not necessary to answer the question. seems excessive but you did clear up the mechanics for me. So there’s that

 

I know you're new to the forums, but that's kind of what happens here all the time.

 

Someone introduces a topic and we talk about it. This is a discussion forum, not a question and answer forum. The only question and answer forum is here https://www.herogames.com/forums/forum/32-hero-system-6th-edition-rules-questions/ and it only answers specific rules questions and only if you are willing to wait for months for one specific person to have the time to come here and answer your specific rules question.

 

You seem to have a deep and abiding misunderstanding about what Berserk does. It's impossible FOR ME to address the topic you brought up without discussing what Berserk actually means and what it would do to the game you'd use that character/race in.

 

If you want to wait for someone else to come along and give their own answer your question, feel free to wait. And wait.

 

All you need to do in order to stop me from typing responses to you is to quit replying to my posts.

[Crusty]

Good lord. What a welcome! 😂 

[Doc Calypso]

Nothing says it can't be done. Just be more specific in your descriptions

[unclevlad]

And we'll probably argue that what you're trying to achieve isn't Berserk.

 

You'd be well advised to not take it personally, which you seem to be doing.  Understand that MUCH of this is what we understand Berserk to mean;  and we're not sure your take is the same as ours.  Berserk is an EXTREMELY dangerous Complication;  you picked what I'd treat as a Common circumstance, and from the sound of it, it'll be decently common, probably 11-.  Then there's the required consequences:

 

Quote

As an optional rule, the GM can allow characters to buy a form of Enraged called Berserk.  Berserk is worth more than an Enraged, since there’s a much greater chance the character will attack his friends or cause undesirable havoc.  Berserk characters can’t tell friend from foe; they automatically attack whoever’s in front of them or nearest to them until they Knock Out or kill that target. The Berserk character then attacks the nearest visible target.

A Berserk character uses his most familiar or often used offensive Power at full strength while Berserk. He may use no defensive maneuvers or abilities (like Dodge or Block), and must apply all of his Combat Skill Levels to OCV or increasing damage (none to DCV).

 

So throw out CVKs, throw out social norms.  It's Hulk SMASH!! time.  Your notion of ritual combat is fine...but when it's an entire race, even 8- to go berserk is gonna happen in a battle they're losing, and it will be a mess.  If nothing else, keep it at Enraged, but make it 14- to go Enraged, 8- to recover.  That at least means he'll attack enemies, most of the time.  That's still extremely problematic when it's too common in a race, as it'll lead to:

 

a)  no one wants them as allies

b)  their losses will be seriously high

c)  no one would hire someone of that race for anything where combat's too likely, such as mercenary work

d)  if they *are* hired as mercs, there's a really good chance it's to get thrown to the wolves...they'll get slaughtered but take a lot of people with them.  You don't have to pay dead mercs, so for the employers?  Win-win.

[Crusty]

The input is appreciated. I hear you but disagree.
 

I started with a simple question with simplistic examples, see if there was anything RAW I missed regarding doubling up.  

 

Anything past RAW is on me, but I’m amazed at the depth and effort taken after that. Assumptions as to my experience, even a little unicorn. Which was pretty amusing actually. the statement regarding my waiting and waiting for an answer seemed a little like a threat as well
 

so not personal no. Just calling it like I see it. 

 

got my answer and my welcome. I’m leaving it at that. 

[archer]

2 hours ago, Crusty said:

The input is appreciated. I hear you but disagree.
 

I started with a simple question with simplistic examples, see if there was anything RAW I missed regarding doubling up.  

 

 

Your responses to me came across as aggressively rude even as I continued with polite conversation.

 

If you want polite conversation, try to be an ass deliberately.

[archer]

12 hours ago, archer said:

 

Your responses to me came across as aggressively rude even as I continued with polite conversation.

 

If you want polite conversation, try to be an ass deliberately.

 

I accidentally omitted a word. 

 

The last sentence was supposed to read, "If you want polite conversation, try not to be an ass deliberately."

[Ninja-Bear]

On 9/6/2020 at 3:36 PM, Crusty said:

I’m looking at building a graduated complication for a warrior species

 

Enraged when losing a fight

 

Beserk when the fight is lost

 

Doable? Is there a better way to do it?

 

 

Easiest would be to make it a Psy Lim: Warrior Code and the buy it at what level the Race can stop it and define a warrior Code as what you listed. 
 

Fwiw by RAW, Berserk means that (when go into it of course) you do your most damaging attack to your nearest target whether they’re friend or foe. And you hit till the target drops. (I don’t believe until they’re killed though.)

[unclevlad]

10 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Fwiw by RAW, Berserk means that (when go into it of course) you do your most damaging attack to your nearest target whether they’re friend or foe. And you hit till the target drops. (I don’t believe until they’re killed though.)

 

You can't tell the difference between unconscious and dead.  You can tell "collapsed in a heap and not moving."

 

That said, you're also using the most damaging...if you've got one that's Red Pen and one that's not (but same damage otherwise) you're using the Red Pen.  If you have 12D normal or 4D Killing, you're using the KA.  Other factors can come into play, sure, but this is the default by RAW. 

 

Oh, there'd be an exception.  You're berserk, you pummel the guy next to you.  He drops.  You fail your recovery;  you move on.  The first guy was faking;  he attacks you from behind.  SILLY BOY!!!!!  If you're not dropped, you turn on him.  NOW, after you knock him down, I'd probably toss in that your next action is a Haymaker...to the head or chest.  THEN you get the Recovery roll.